Question for Fellow Calvinists

[Bulldog]

What's the point of evangalizing if there are some born with no chance at salvation?

 

[Lotar]

I'm not Calvinist, but I know the answer God commanded us to, and we never know who are the elect and who are not. You never know where God will use you.

 

[II Paradox II]

What's the point of evangalizing if there are some born with no chance at salvation?

A few thoughts:

1) God uses means to accomplish His will
2) You don't know who the elect are, therefore you can't isolate your preaching to any gruop in particular.
3) In at least one sense, knowing the sovereignty of God over salvation actually expands your witness. Simply put - if you have a doctrine of salvation centered around man's ability and willingness to respond, you will inherently see some people as "more likely" to respond in faith than others who are further away from God. When you see God as actively working to regenerate even the worst sinner by His grace you will tend to see everyone, from the most moral to the worst sinner as equal before God in terms of their potential salvation.
4) It glorifies God when his people proclaim His name

ken

 

[PatrickM]

Follow-up question (with OPs permission, of course?):

Hypothetically, what if every Christian decided NOT to evangalize, disobeying God, etc.? How would the "elect", then, receive Christ?

 

[Bulldog]

(with OPs permission, of course?):

Sure.

 

[II Paradox II]

Hypothetically, what if every Christian decided NOT to evangalize, disobeying God, etc.? How would the "elect", then, receive Christ?

God would use a different means (since it's a hypothetical, he could talk directly to their minds, write messages in clouds, spell out the gospel story by aligning rocks on mars for our rover to take pictures of, drop bibles out of the sky, etc...). The methods God uses to accomplish His will are not logically necessary, just what He chooses to use. As such, He can freely choose to do it a different way if He wants to.

ken

 

[BBAS 64]

Follow-up question (with OPs permission, of course?):

Hypothetically, what if every Christian decided NOT to evangalize, disobeying God, etc.? How would the "elect", then, receive Christ?

Just a thought was there not a OT person whom tried some thing like this and he concluded he could not keep his mouth shut.

So much for his free will, in light of God's will it allways fails.
God forced him


BBAS

 

[Reformationist]

II Paradox II, thank you, once again, for your biblically sound witness.

God bless,
Don

 

[BBAS 64]

Yet another Jona go to niniva {sp}, no way those are bad people I will not go there get on a boat to somewhere else. OH, yeah I think not God sends big fish.
Jona's free will is limted to the choice that God gave him.

Jona unhappy God's will is carried out, To bad Jona you will get over it.

He is potter you are the clay... MAY I NEVER forget that, I am HIS!

For His Glory Alone!

BBAS

 

[kickingsacredcows]

Follow-up question (with OPs permission, of course?):

Hypothetically, what if every Christian decided NOT to evangalize, disobeying God, etc.? How would the "elect", then, receive Christ?

I'd like to jump in here and give my personal experience along these lines.

I was a hateful, Christian persecuting teenager who happened to have a believing sister. She would once in a while ask me to go to her youth group with her, and I would always become violently angry with her, to the point of one time lifting her off the floor by her throat and telling her if she ever mentioned God to me again I would kill her. She never said another word to me about Him again.

My fear of all things having to do with God was amazing and horrible at the same time. When I found myself at an occasional funeral or wedding I would break into a sweat at the mention of Jesus. I hated God, I hated anyone who talked of God, and I never stopped to ask myself why. I only knew that I had to flee or lash out at the mention of Him.

One day when I was 18 I went into my sister's bedroom to get a record I had loaned her and on the way out, while passing her dresser, my eyes fell on her bible. At that moment I was COMPELLED to pick it up. I remember wondering what that THING was doing in my hands and as I found myself laying on my bed reading about this Jesus whom I had blasphemed and hated, I began to believe.

Our loving heavenly father can, and apparently sometimes will directly compel someone to believe, as He did so graciously with me.

I can only assume that He has dealt with others similarly.

Thanks for bearing with a story that arguably belongs in a personal testimony thread.

 

[PatrickM]

God would use a different means (since it's a hypothetical, he could talk directly to their minds, write messages in clouds, spell out the gospel story by aligning rocks on mars for our rover to take pictures of, drop bibles out of the sky, etc...). The methods God uses to accomplish His will are not logically necessary, just what He chooses to use. As such, He can freely choose to do it a different way if He wants to.

ken

These alternatives all seem much more effective than using fallible humans, so why then, doesn't God do just that?

Could it be that by allowing us to choose to obey Him, He chooses to bless those whose feet carry the good news of the gospel of peace?

 

[foreknown]

Kickingsacredcows,

Beautiful testimony brother. That is exactly what God does. He calls all who are his to himself. He does not need us at all. Many people like to use the argument about the man in the wilderness who has never had a bible or heard nothing of God. People use this to say it's not fair for God to send him to hell because he never knew when in fact he did know. He can look around and know by what God created that he exists because he did not form the trees or anything else. I am thankful for God's word by I am more thankful that he predestined me to eternal life before the foundation of the earth.

Amen!

In Christ,

Alex

 

[Bulldog]

These alternatives all seem much more effective than using fallible humans, so why then, doesn't God do just that?

Could it be that by allowing us to choose to obey Him, He chooses to bless those whose feet carry the good news of the gospel of peace?

Why question God's will? If God's will is for someone to be saved when evangelized to, then that's whats gonna happen. We can't override God's will.

 

[Blackhawk]

I'd like to jump in here and give my personal experience along these lines.

I was a hateful, Christian persecuting teenager who happened to have a believing sister. She would once in a while ask me to go to her youth group with her, and I would always become violently angry with her, to the point of one time lifting her off the floor by her throat and telling her if she ever mentioned God to me again I would kill her. She never said another word to me about Him again.

My fear of all things having to do with God was amazing and horrible at the same time. When I found myself at an occasional funeral or wedding I would break into a sweat at the mention of Jesus. I hated God, I hated anyone who talked of God, and I never stopped to ask myself why. I only knew that I had to flee or lash out at the mention of Him.

One day when I was 18 I went into my sister's bedroom to get a record I had loaned her and on the way out, while passing her dresser, my eyes fell on her bible. At that moment I was COMPELLED to pick it up. I remember wondering what that THING was doing in my hands and as I found myself laying on my bed reading about this Jesus whom I had blasphemed and hated, I began to believe.

Our loving heavenly father can, and apparently sometimes will directly compel someone to believe, as He did so graciously with me.

I can only assume that He has dealt with others similarly.

Thanks for bearing with a story that arguably belongs in a personal testimony thread.

what a great testimony of God's great love, mercy, and grace for us. Thanks for sharing. It touched me.

 

[Bulldog]

I'd like to jump in here and give my personal experience along these lines.

I was a hateful, Christian persecuting teenager who happened to have a believing sister. She would once in a while ask me to go to her youth group with her, and I would always become violently angry with her, to the point of one time lifting her off the floor by her throat and telling her if she ever mentioned God to me again I would kill her. She never said another word to me about Him again.

My fear of all things having to do with God was amazing and horrible at the same time. When I found myself at an occasional funeral or wedding I would break into a sweat at the mention of Jesus. I hated God, I hated anyone who talked of God, and I never stopped to ask myself why. I only knew that I had to flee or lash out at the mention of Him.

One day when I was 18 I went into my sister's bedroom to get a record I had loaned her and on the way out, while passing her dresser, my eyes fell on her bible. At that moment I was COMPELLED to pick it up. I remember wondering what that THING was doing in my hands and as I found myself laying on my bed reading about this Jesus whom I had blasphemed and hated, I began to believe.

Our loving heavenly father can, and apparently sometimes will directly compel someone to believe, as He did so graciously with me.

I can only assume that He has dealt with others similarly.

Thanks for bearing with a story that arguably belongs in a personal testimony thread.

 

[II Paradox II]

II Paradox II, thank you, once again, for your biblically sound witness.

thanx..

ken

 

[II Paradox II]

These alternatives all seem much more effective than using fallible humans, so why then, doesn't God do just that?

Because He chooses not to for some reason. We are only given general outlines of why He chooses to do so. God does not always use the most efficient method. For example, we all think God is omnipotent, thus He can do anything he wants, when he wants. However, he created a host of angels that he uses to watch over His creation and act as messengers and smite various people (and bless them sometimes too). Clearly, an omnipotent being does not need to have an angel smite his enemies, he can do it just by the same breath of His mouth He created the world with. However, He chooses to use what is obviously a far less efficient method to accomplish these tasks, His angels.

Could it be that by allowing us to choose to obey Him, He chooses to bless those whose feet carry the good news of the gospel of peace?

Sure. I don't deny that God allows us to obey or disobey. As the Westminster confession states, the efficacy of secondary causes (me) is not destroyed by God's sovereignty, but established by it.

ken

 

[PatrickM]

Sure. I don't deny that God allows us to obey or disobey. As the Westminster confession states, the efficacy of secondary causes (me) is not destroyed by God's sovereignty, but established by it.

ken

Amen to that. Sorry if I've appeared to become, well, "you know who's" advocate. (Insert puns here!)

 

[II Paradox II]

Amen to that. Sorry if I've appeared to become, well, "you know who's" advocate. (Insert puns here!)

no problem...

ken

 

[nadroj1985]

I am thankful for God's word by I am more thankful that he predestined me to eternal life before the foundation of the earth.

I thought we didn't know who the elect were. Not trying to start an argument, but I would like some clarification.....