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Mary's role in Christianity was to give birth to Jesus Christ, no more and no less.Catholics do not believe Mary to be God and we do not worship her as such! We recognize her for who she is and her role in God's plan for salvation.
Mary's role in Christianity was to give birth to Jesus Christ, no more and no less.
I still don't see that it tells us to pray to them.
In most of those verses it was talking about people who were still alive praying to God for each other, or just respecting and honoring the saints/elders/etc., but not to pray to them.
And concerning the angels, most of those say that the angels guard us, but it doesn't say to worship them or pray to them.
She is queen of heaven because her Son is our King!
She could have said no and rejected the will of God the way most of us do probably on a daily basis...but she didn't. She was obedient and her "yes" brought forth the possibility of the salvation of us all. How can we ignore her role as the Mother of our Savior? This was God's will and thanks be to God for her obedience!
Don't pester mariodules with relevant scripture. Their moldy traditions trump the word of God!Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead [their] dough, to make wafers to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke Me to anger.
7:19 Do they provoke Me to anger? saith the "I AM": [do they] not [provoke] themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
7:20 Therefore thus saith the Lord "I AM"; Behold, Mine anger and My fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
44:19 And when we burned incense (or candles) to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her wafers (with I.H.S. on them) to worship her, and pour out drink offerings (wine) unto her, without our men?
44:20 Then Jeremiah said unto all the people, to the men, and to the women, and to all the people which had given him [that] answer, saying,
44:21 The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the "I AM" remember them, and came it [not] into His mind?
44:22 So that the "I AM" could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, [and] because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day.
44:25 Thus saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense (or candles) to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.
This Mary worship goes back to Babylonian pagan fertility goddess Ishtar of the Babylonian Mystery Religion of Sun-worship on Sundays.
When the Babylonians lost a great war they moved to Rome and brought this evil with them.
Koran Sura 17:5. When the first of the warnings came to pass, We sent against you (Jerusalem) Our servants given to terrible warfare (the Babylonians - king [SIZE=+1]Nebuchadnezzarfile://G:\Jah\jere.htm[SIZE=+1]): they entered the very inmost parts of your homes and it was a warning (completely) fulfilled.
6. Then did We grant you the Return as against them: We gave you increase in resources and sons, and made you the more numerous in man-power.
7. If ye did well, ye did well for yourselves; if ye did evil, (ye did it) against yourselves. So when the second of the warnings came to pass, (We permitted your enemies) to disfigure your faces, and to enter your Temple as they* had entered it before, and to visit with destruction all that fell into their power.
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That is part of how this Mary worship got into the Roman church along with the Egyptian goddess Isis and her traditions.
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/monstr.htm
God hates this fraud.
Mary could have called herself a Queen on earth but there is NO queen in Heaven.
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That is part of how this Mary worship got into the Roman church along with the Egyptian goddess Isis and her traditions.
The difference is that Mary - or ANYONE in heaven for that matter - would not ask Jesus to do something wrong.You forgot to post the rest of the story. Solomon becomes angry at Adonijah for asking Bathsheba to intercede for him and has him executed. So, by way of analogy, when someone asks Mary to intercede with Jesus Christ for him, Jesus' wrath is kindled against the person and he suffers spiritual death.
I'm curious: Would you go up to your OWN mother and say: "You're role in my life was to give birth to me; no more, no less"? I have a funny feeling your mom would not appreciate that very much.Mary's role in Christianity was to give birth to Jesus Christ, no more and no less.
I'm curious: Would you go up to your OWN mother and say: "You're role in my life was to give birth to me; no more, no less"? I have a funny feeling your mom would not appreciate that very much.
If God chose her out of all time to bear His Son, and if Scripture says of her "All generations shall call me blessed", should we not give her the honor she deserves, based in the singular honor God saw fit to bestow upon her?
The difference is that Mary - or ANYONE in heaven for that matter - would not ask Jesus to do something wrong.
Besisdes, your point does not change the fact that In the Davidic Kingdoms, the Kings mother was always the queen, and an intercessor.
To understand Mary's Queenship, you must understand Jewish culture. In the Davidic Kingdom, the mother of the King was always the Queen. The word in MIddle Eastern nations for this was the "Gabirah", or "queen mother".There is only one instance of a "queen mother" in the Hebrew Scriptures and that is the one I cited. Moreover, it does not support the false claim that Mary is "queen of heaven," despite your wishful thinking. Jesus did not rule Israel in the "Davidic style" and he did not address Mary as "queen mother."
I have already dealt a blow to that anemic RC apologia.To understand Mary's Queenship, you must understand Jewish culture. In the Davidic Kingdom, the mother of the King was always the Queen. The word in MIddle Eastern nations for this was the "Gabirah", or "queen mother".
Likewise, Jesus is the "son of David" and is the new King. It goes without saying, therefore, that his mother is the queen - the Gabirah. Any Jew would know that, ESPECIALLY the apostles.
Understanding Mary as queen mother sheds light on her important intercessory role in the Christian life. Just like the queen mother of the Davidic kingdom, Mary serves as advocate for the people in the Kingdom of God today. Thus, we should approach our queen mother with confidence, knowing that she carries our petitions to her royal son and that he responds to her as Solomon did to Bathsheba: "I will never refuse you."
I suggest you read this link:
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9812fea2.asp
I have already dealt a blow to that anemic RC apologia.
Where?I have already dealt a blow to that anemic RC apologia.
There is only one instance of a "queen mother" in the Hebrew Scriptures and that is the one I cited. Moreover, it does not support the false claim that Mary is "queen of heaven," despite your wishful thinking. Jesus did not rule Israel in the "Davidic style" and he did not address Mary as "queen mother."
Great quotes. In Catholic understanding, prayer is a "request". When we pray to those who have gone to heaven ahead of us, we are making a "request" of them. And what is that request? It is that THEY pray for US. Protestants do it all the time, but they limit themselves to making this request only of people still on earth. In this, the protestant view of the Church is very narrow. You see, Romans 8: 38-39 says: "neither death nor life.. ..present nor the future.. ..height nor depth.. ..will be able to separate us...".; The Family of God transcends death. We ALL LIVE IN CHRIST.Take 98
This had already been explained by St. Thomas:Prayer is offered to a person in two ways: one as though to be granted by himself, another as to be obtained through him. In the first way we pray to God alone, because all our prayers ought to be directed to obtaining grace and glory which God alone gives, according to those words of the Psalm (lxxxiii, 12): 'The Lord will give grace and glory.' But in the second way we pray to the holy angels and to men not that God may learn our petition through them, but that by their prayers and merits our prayers may be efficacious. Wherefore it is said in the Apocalypse (viii, 4): 'And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel' (Summ. Theol., II-II, Q. lxxxiii, a. 4). The reasonableness of the Catholic teaching and practice cannot be better stated than in St. Jerome's words:If the Apostles and Martyrs, while still in the body, can pray for others, at a time when they must still be anxious for themselves, how much more after their crowns, victories, and triumphs are won! One man, Moses, obtains from God pardon for six hundred thousand men in arms; and Stephen, the imitator of the Lord, and the first martyr in Christ, begs forgiveness for his persecutors; and shall their power be less after having begun to be with Christ? The Apostle Paul declares that two hundred three score and sixteen souls, sailing with him, were freely given him; and, after he is dissolved and has begun to be with Christ, shall he close his lips, and not be able to utter a word in behalf of those who throughout the whole world believed at his preaching of the Gospel? And shall the living dog Vigilantius be better than that dead lion? ("Contra Vigilant.", n. 6, in P. L., XXIII, 344).
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