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Question....for Adventists

Sophia7

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Hi, everyone! I've been really busy and haven't had much time to come here this past week. I just wanted to share my views on the relationship between law and grace. It's a subject that is popular right now in the Christian world, especially with all of the recent talk about Ten Commandments Day. The following is an article that I wrote for our church newsletter to address some of these issues.

I did not mention this in the article, but notice that the opening illustration also shows the attitude that Christians used to have toward Sunday as the Lord's Day. Until recently--probably until sometime in the last century--people who observed Sunday were every bit as legalistic about its requirements as many Adventists are accused of being today (and admittedly some actually are) in regard to Sabbath. They did not view the Sabbath commandment as irrelevant but simply believed that its significance was transferred to Sunday. That's why even today so many states and cities have laws on the books requiring businesses to be closed on Sundays, for example. When those laws were enacted, the purpose was to try to preserve Sunday as the Lord's holy day by taking away opportunities for people to break it. However, those who would legislate such religious practices are wrong, as are those who would make the Sabbath into a legalistic burden.

God never intended the Sabbath as a burden but as a time to find joy in the Lord. If we keep the Sabbath as He wants us to, through the power of the Spirit and not as a legalistic way of trying to earn salvation, it is a great blessing to us. If we keep the Sabbath as an expression of our love for God and our love for others, it fits completely with Jesus' summary of the greatest commandments, which we still keep but in a new way, by the Spirit, because of the grace that God has given us.

______________________________________________________________________________

Law or Grace?

Many years ago, a pastor on his way to church one Sunday morning found the roads blocked. The only way he could get to church was to skate across a frozen river. When he arrived, the elders of the church were horrified that their preacher had, in their opinion, desecrated the Lord's Day. After the service they held a meeting, and the pastor explained why he had skated to church. Finally, one elder asked, “Did you enjoy it?” When the preacher answered, “No,” the board decided that it was all right.1

This story illustrates the fact that many people have the wrong idea about God’s law. They try to avoid sinning, and they try to make sure that everyone else avoids sinning, but they miss the point of God’s principles of law. God didn’t give us His law to make us miserable because we are trying to work our way to heaven. Rather, He gave us the law to show us our need for a Savior.

The Bible discusses the relationship between law and grace, and its words are often misunderstood. On one side, people say that the law (usually referring to the Ten Commandments) was given only to the Jews and is not relevant to Christians. They cite verses like Romans 6:14, which tells us that we are “not under law, but under grace.”

On the other side, people say that the commandments are still important because they are based on eternal principles that didn’t end with the Jewish era. They quote texts like James 2:24, which says that “a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” They are often accused of being legalists by those who think that they are trying to earn salvation by what they do.

Which side is right? Those who believe that the law is no longer binding are right that we are saved by grace and not by keeping the law. The only way observance of the law can save us is if we keep it perfectly, and we have all failed at that.2 However, that does not mean that the law is no longer relevant to Christians. On the contrary, Romans 7:12 says that “the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.”

Those who believe that we still need to keep the law are right that Jesus did not destroy the law when He died; instead, He fulfilled its demands and cancelled our sins so that the law no longer condemns us.3 Like the church elders in the opening illustration, though, they do tend to slip into legalism and to give others the impression that they are denying the grace of God. Many even believe that we are initially justified by faith but then have to make ourselves perfect by our own efforts.

How then should we view God’s law? The apostle Paul had a lot to say about the relationship between law and grace. In Romans 6 he personified sin as a slave master that held us captive to our evil desires until Jesus set us free. However, Paul made it clear in verses 15-18 that obedience is still important:

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

The point is not that we should no longer follow the law; the point is that we are not to depend on it for salvation. If we try to gain salvation by our good works, the law condemns us because we can't do it. We are already doomed because we have all sinned. The law stands against us as an accuser. We cannot redeem ourselves from the slavery of sin.

When we accept Christ, the law no longer condemns us because He has set us free by His grace. Thus, Paul said that we should offer ourselves to God as “instruments of righteousness” (v. 13). We have a new master now–Jesus–who makes us righteous and holy. We have a choice: we can attempt to do all the right things on our own, which is impossible, and remain slaves to sin while the law condemns us. That is what it means to be under law. Or we can depend on God's grace for our salvation. That is what it means to be under grace. Either way, we are still supposed to keep the law. The difference is our motivation for obedience and our reliance on God's power to keep us from falling rather than on our own willpower. Because we are under grace, we keep the law by grace. We do not keep it in order to be saved because it cannot justify anyone. We keep the law through the Spirit of God living in us.

Paul further addressed this idea in Galatians 5:13-25:

You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

Therefore, there is still sin, and there is still a law, summarized here by the command to love our neighbors as ourselves and elsewhere by Jesus' instruction to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, all our minds, and all our souls. These are the principles upon which the whole law is based. These are the principles that are written on our hearts when we trust God for our salvation and have His Spirit living in us. Paul's and Jesus' statements of these principles, however, do not negate the specific applications that are given in other parts of the Bible. Even in this passage, Paul listed some specific sins that go against God's law and that Christians should avoid.

God still has requirements for us to follow, but only as an expression of our faith in Christ. We still fall short of His standards. We still sin. The Bible says that we should not continue to sin. Paul by no means taught that the law is now obsolete. We just have a new way of keeping it, which we could never do by our own power. Paul repeated over and over in his letters that we should offer ourselves to God to do His will rather than continuing in the bondage of sin. The difference is that we now focus on Christ instead of ourselves because only He has the power to keep us from sinning. Because we are under grace, we keep the law by grace.

The upcoming Ten Commandments Weekend is an opportunity to remind people of the importance of God’s law and its continuing relevance to Christians. Let’s be careful as we do so, though, to put the emphasis where it belongs–on Jesus and what He has done to redeem us from the slavery of sin.

1 Today in the Word, Moody Bible Institute, December 1989, p. 12.
2 See Romans 3.
3 Colossians 2:13-14.


 
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att04

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Adam, our ancestor was created in perfection and holiness, in the image and after the likeness of God, with an agape heart to live forever. We, his off springs were born in sin, self centered to die in sin. How could we become such human?

Because Eve was deceived by Satan, transgressed the word of God by eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, thinking she might become like God, knowing good and evil.

Because Adam’s love towards Eve was greater than his love towards God, by following Eve transgressions, he was changed to a self centered man, and lost the glory of God; his agape heart.

Because we are their off spring, multiplication of their flesh, after they sinned, born in their image and after their likeness, inherit their death body and self centered hearts. From then on, humanity was born in sin, growth in sin and die in sin.

Is there anything we can do to escape death, to escape sin and live forever? Nothing!

But God loves us so much that he offered his only begotten Son to save us for he could not stand still to see and watch humanity destruction. How does he save us?

Through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, God introduced himself to the world, to men which mind was so alienated to God darkened by Satan’s sophistry, how great is his love, so unselfish that he is able to offer himself to die in order we may live.

Through Christ redemption, God had unmasked Satan’s real nature and proving his righteousness, justice and divine character. This is the only way to save men from the claw of Satan, to pull them out of Satan’s kingdom. Only by knowing the love of God through Jesus life, death and resurrection, there is a chance to win man back to heaven, by beholding His character he might be drawn back to God. Christ’ mission is to reveal God to men and to bring men to God.

A way was prepared before Christ come, the Law was introduced to men at Sinai so they might know him when he comes, and the Decalogue was written by God finger, to legally condemn men for their sin, to legally justify Christ for his righteousness that earn life.

Through the cross, Christ redemption that was foretold in the law had saved men, resurrection from the death and a seat in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus.

God had reconciled himself to men, what is needed is to reconcile ourselves to him. By beholding to Christ through faith, we would be recreated back in the image of God, which suits us to live eternally in heaven and the New World.

Knowing God is eternal life and God is known through Jesus Christ, by focusing our eyes on Jesus, who would lead us in faith and perfect our faith, we would come to know the depth, the width and height of the love of God. We had been saved but eternal life is to be experienced.

To experience eternal life is to walk in Christ through faith, he is the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through him. When the love of God ruled the hearths of faithful Christ believers, their fruit was seen and acknowledge; a life style that fulfils the demand of the Decalogue, the unchanged law of God. Does he violate any of the Law of God? No! Does he step on the 4th commandment and breach its holiness? No! Sabbath keeping as according to the 4th commandment is a joy for him, a day of delight to worship God the Creator of heaven and earth.

When Christ came at the end of time, he would take to heaven with him those who had the love of God in their heart ruling their life, those who knows God and were recreated back in the image after the likeness of God, those who had kept his commandment and fulfils it demands, those who has the seal of God on their forehead, a sign of remembrance of the 7th day Sabbath, to keep it holy.

Blessed are they that keep his commandments, those who wash their robes and keep it stainless, they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gate, into the city, in the heavenly realms, where Christ seated, with God.

In His love

JDAS




 
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att04

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Quoted from YeshuaMySalvation posted 29th March 2006, 04:38 AM

A quote from “midnightcry”

It seems to me the SDA Church has alot of truth. They follow the Bible closer than any other denomination. They present scripture in a way that is clear and easy to understand.

Unquote.

I Yeshua My Salvation > disagree that they follow the bible closer then other denominations.. S.D.A.S in general do have alot of truths like the Sabbath, death is a state of unconciousness, they don't believe in the unscripturally supported doctrine of the rapture ect. ect. But where most S.D.A.S fall short of the Gospel is that "they believe in righteousness by works." Rarely do they admit this, but that is exactly what all Traditional Adventist believe except for the once that are more liberal "and this is taking place inside of the S.D.A church... Alot of S.D.A.S have excepted the gospel as taught in the bible by grace through faith in Yeshua alone...

Unquote.

Why many Christian didn’t see the truth of the Gospel of Christ as according to the official interpretations of the SDA’s church?

Because they haven’t hear it, because they haven’t seen it, because they ignore it, because they didn’t believe it, because ……… etc.

It is our duty to bring the truth to them

Why many SDA’s member leaves the church?

Because they have no longer interest to walk in faith, because they got bored to live a faithful life, because they were swept away by the desire of the flesh and of the world, because they had learn and studied the bible in the light of their own philosophy, because they hear and see sermons brought by pastors and priest and evangelist of the SDA’s church that they thought is teaching something against the Gospel of Christ, because …….. etc.

Yeah, I have seen all these kinds of things happened around me.

Like YeshuaMySalvation which is so convinced that most SDA’s believes in righteousness by works, because he had heard and seen around him from SDA’s members, pastors, priest, evangelist, how they stressed people to keep the Sabbath and the Ten Commandments of God more than teaching them about how they had been saved by the grace of God and what they need to do is accept this salvation through faith and experience the eternal life through a walk in the Spirit.

People hearing this, might come to a misconception of the SDA’s doctrine regarding righteousness by faith. And unfortunately, there are many in the church who thinks so, at least, they think they must exercise their faith in such a way by keeping the Ten Commandment and especially the Sabbath day in order to maintain their salvation.

But it is not what the church officially taught. So, it is not necessary to leave the church and blame the church and thought they have taught errors and stand against the Gospel of Christ.

So, I really disagree with YeshuaMySalvation claim, it is his lack of understanding the concept behind the sermons and teachings of those evangelists, pastors and priests.

In His love

JDAS
 
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att04

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Quoted from 2cents posted 30th March 2006, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by: OntheDL

If it's true that we no longer need to observe the commandments of God, then can we go rob a few banks and kill a few bystandards?
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You misunderstand how we observe the commandments of God. The Spirit gives life and the letter kills, I didn't make that up, Paul did. Are you saved by grace, only to maintain that salvation by your own obedience to Law? This is a very important question, think about it.

Unquote.

I like to comment on the last part, even it is not appointed to me:

Are you saved by grace only to maintain that salvation by your own obedience to the law?

No Adventist is taught this way! We are taught that our obedience to the law is the fruit of our faithful life following the will of the Spirit, a life as according to the Spirit.

Love to God expressed it self in an obedience to the word of God, which surely is not against his own Decalogue. And as long the love of God ruled our hearts which mean we maintain a faithful life in Christ, we experience eternal life till the Day comes where all of us would enter the gate of heaven and have the right to the tree of life.

“But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him.” But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved. (Hebrews 10:38,39).

In His love

JDAS
 
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att04

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Quoted from midnightcry posted 3rd April 2006, 11:38 PM

What is so wrong with keeping God's Law?

We know that works cannot save us, that keeping the letter of the law will not save anyone. It is not a matter of being legalistic.

It is a matter of love and obedience. We love God, thus we show our love by keeping His Laws. They are written in our mind and heart.

Jesus said, If you love me, keep my commandments.

What exactly is so wrong with that?

midnightcry


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Yes, you are right midnightcry, you got it right even tough you are a junior member of the SDA’s church, but I see you are a really truth seeker, God bless you.

Keeping the law is the fruit of our faithful life, it could be no other. Keeping the law is our automatic allegiance to God, it could be no other.

If the fruit are still fruits of the flesh as stated in Galatians 5:19-21, then we knew that we didn’t live by faith, that we didn’t give our heart to God, to be led by His Spirit, we still maintain our own selfish life.

We love God, because He has given us a new heart that is in harmony with the principle of heaven (Ezekiel 36:26,27) that enable us to surrender our self completely to His will and what He would do for us (Philippians 2:13), which automatically doesn’t transgress His own law; the Decalogue.

Knowing God is eternal life, and to know God is to know Jesus Christ, whom He had sent (John 17:3). And Jesus had glorified the Father by doing His will, so, we too should glorify the Father through our faithful life that is in harmony with the law, because it is no less than fruits of the Spirit.

Keeping the Decalogue is not something we do because it must be done otherwise we would be condemned, but because it’s keeping is the overflow of our love to God, we love to keep His laws, and our love is His gift to us implanted in the new heart He has given us in exchange of our sinful stony heart that we had given to Him.

In His love

JDAS
 
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MidnightCry

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Hi everyone!

Wow, there are some great posts here! This thread has really grown.

I have been sick with a sinus infection and we have had company from Alaska for 12 days. He finally went home.
It has been tuff trying to work and entertain while not feeling that great.

Praise God, I am better. I can finally get back to CF.

att04 -- great posts!
 
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Cliff2

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midnightcry said:
Hi everyone!

Wow, there are some great posts here! This thread has really grown.

I have been sick with a sinus infection and we have had company from Alaska for 12 days. He finally went home.
It has been tuff trying to work and entertain while not feeling that great.

Praise God, I am better. I can finally get back to CF.

att04 -- great posts!

That is good to see that you are now much improved.

Next time can I make a suggestion. Your friend may even leave quicker and you will certainly improve much quicker.

Eat garlic and that is raw garlic for breakfast, mid-day meal and again at night.

If that does not clear your house in a very short time, probably nothing will.

Then you will also be on the road to recovery.

Blessings
 
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MidnightCry

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woobadooba said:
LOL

Do you realise how bad that sounds^_^

By the way, it is good to see you back again. :thumbsup:

Hi woobadooba,

Yes, I realize how bad that sounds. But, hey, the guy stayed here for 12 days.

I'm just really glad we have our home back. Now I have time for more important things, like CF.

I guess I'm glad to see you guys; you, too, Cliff2. I will keep the garlic tip in mind, thanx. :D
 
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chevelledc788

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I think it is a combination of everything you listed. I do believe this denomination possesses alot of truth but I also think we need to be careful about becoming self-righteous about the matter.

I believe the reason many do not see it is because many will be deceived. In Matthew 7:13,14, Jesus himself explains, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

Those 2 verses alone tell us that the majority of the world will not find the truth and they will not find life. It's easy to look at it and say, 'If this is supposedly the truth, why doesn't anyone see it?' Whenever I think that I am reminded of that verse and it reassures me in my faith.
 
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