Question arising from the Calvinism/predestined threads

[skypair]

Sooooo, Christ was disrobed of His deity? Wowzers!!!

Says so in Heb 2:9. Were you not aware of that? Were you not aware that only now does He sit at the right hand of God, His Father, in 3rd heaven — from whence He will come to judge the quick and the dead? You recite this every week, don't you?

skypair

 

[skypair]

John 1 speaks of the Spirit. The Spirit was made flesh...that is Christ.

If the Word was made flesh, then indeed Christ created all things like Jn 1 says. I think you need to study Jn 1:1 more closely — the Word was with God is the Son — the Word was God is the Spirit in Him and in the Son.

Yes, the Spirit hovered over creation in its formation. Yes, the Spirit hovered over Mary when Jesus was conceived. Yes, the Spirit hovered over the Jews at Pentecost until the seed was "received with joy" bringing forth a new creation. The Word was the Spirit of Christ*, the Son — His gospel. The Word was always the Son and the Son always the Word — and the Light.

* Which Paul calls "the mind of Christ" in 1Cor 2:16. Spirit, BTW, means mind, emotions, and will. There is also a Spirit of the Father. Same Spirit except His mind is omniscient and no one has "the mind of the Lord" (ibid).

So then there is the Spirit that is in you and me. Works the same as in Christ. We learn from the Son and all things that the Father gives to the Son are given to us, Jn 16:15.

So this is hugely important to believers, 98. We have the mind of Christ to the extent that we understand scripture. And understanding often means experience of ourselves or of other believers (as in scriptural characters) — experience through application. We have most of it in the Bible, right? The Word.

skypair

 

[Sovereign Grace]

Says so in Heb 2:9. Were you not aware of that? Were you not aware that only now does He sit at the right hand of God, His Father, in 3rd heaven — from whence He will come to judge the quick and the dead? You recite this every week, don't you?

skypair

Hebrews doesn't say what you stretch it out to be...

Hebrews 2:9 and him who was made some little less than messengers we see -- Jesus -- because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death.{YLT}


Christ was made lower due to the fact He was going to die. He never lost one iota of His diety. He had the power to heal, to raise the dead, to forgive sins. He knew Lazarus was dead, two days journey away from Him. He knew Nathaniel was under the fig tree. He knew Judas was coming before he entered Gethsamane.

Christ never "emptied Himself"....

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

How so? I intended to say just that actually.

You intended to be wrong? Quite clearly, John 1:1 was the Word was God, and John 1.:14 says it is Jesus who became flesh. And this ...

The Spirit is the Word of God, for it entered the prophets and enabled them to speak His Word.

... is a wrong interpretation. The Spirit gives the power to speak the word. He is not the word Himself.

Think back to when Jesus was baptized...what entered Him?

Tell me, if Jesus is the Word (and He is) how could He enter Himself? He didn't.

Also, think about what you're suggesting: that flesh (Jesus) became flesh?[/qote]No, that's not what I'm suggesting at all. Obviously, Jesus was with God, and was/is God. So is the Spirit. But the Spirit is never, ever called "The Word." Only Jesus is. Ephesians 1:13, 14 very clearly keeps them separate. Sorry. Your contention is incorrect.

 

[98cwitr]

You intended to be wrong? Quite clearly, John 1:1 was the Word was God, and John 1.:14 says it is Jesus who became flesh. And this ... ... is a wrong interpretation. The Spirit gives the power to speak the word. He is not the word Himself.Tell me, if Jesus is the Word (and He is) how could He enter Himself? He didn't. Also, think about what you're suggesting: that flesh (Jesus) became flesh?[/qote]No, that's not what I'm suggesting at all. Obviously, Jesus was with God, and was/is God. So is the Spirit. But the Spirit is never, ever called "The Word." Only Jesus is. Ephesians 1:13, 14 very clearly keeps them separate. Sorry. Your contention is incorrect.

Where? Not sure how Eph. helps your argument.

Ephesians 1:13-14New International Version (NIV)

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

I'll stand by my convictions until you can refute them. Let me ask you, when Christ ascended, did He ascend in flesh and blood? And before Christ was born, was He flesh and blood then as well?

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

Where? Not sure how Eph. helps your argument.

Ephesians 1:13-14New International Version (NIV)

I'll dispense with reposting the verse. The NASB also translated as "message" the Greek word logos, which is what the original passage says. I'm certain you know how logos is typically translated. In John 1:1, when Jesus is identified as the Word, it is translated from the Greek logos.

Further evidence:

1 Corinthians 12, NASB
8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;​

Notice the word (logos) comes through the Spirit. How can the "word" come through the Spirit and be the Spirit at the same time? Particularly when John identifies the Word as God (Jesus)?

Ephesians 6
And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God ...​

Here Paul identifies the "sword of the Spirit" as the word of God. The Spirit is not the "sword." The Spirit bring the sword.

I'll stand by my convictions until you can refute them.

I would suggest you begin reconsidering your stance. You are reading something into Scripture that is not there.

Let me ask you, when Christ ascended, did He ascend in flesh and blood? And before Christ was born, was He flesh and blood then as well?

Utterly irrelevant. Both pre-incarnately and in the flesh during His Earthly ministry, He it the Word. Flesh does not define that status for Him. However, since you asked, He ascended in the flesh. He was standing before His disciples, teaching until the very end, when they saw Him taken up into the clouds. He obviously does not retain any of that fleshly identity in heaven now, but even so, by virtue of having once been human, forever retains the description of human even though He possesses, at this time, no human qualities.

 

[skypair]

Christ was made lower due to the fact He was going to die. He never lost one iota of His diety. He had the power to heal, to raise the dead, to forgive sins. He knew Lazarus was dead, two days journey away from Him. He knew Nathaniel was under the fig tree. He knew Judas was coming before he entered Gethsamane.

Christ never "emptied Himself"....

Think about this: Did He not have to lose His deity in order to become "sin for us who knew no sin?" You are correct right up to the point where He was forsaken of the Father, giving up His Spirit/deity so that He could die in our place.

So now we must consider that, as He was in life, He has always been in heaven — omnipotent (Mt 28:18) but not omnipresent nor omniscient. BTW, Jesus knew about Judas from the OT.

skypair

 

[skypair]

How can the "word" come through the Spirit and be the Spirit at the same time? Particularly when John identifies the Word as God (Jesus)?

Ephesians 6

And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God ...​

Here Paul identifies the "sword of the Spirit" as the word of God. The Spirit is not the "sword." The Spirit bring the sword.

Not to get into an argument but .. Jn 1 — the Word is the Spirit is Christ…

"And the Word [OT] became flesh..." in Christ.​

I just discovered this the other day —

The Comforter [NT] became flesh in Christians!​

Do you see it? Jesus was everything that the OT said He would be — and the Christian ought to be everything that the NT says he should be. How?

The Holy Spirit is the mind of Christ — which we have in scripture.

The Holy Ghost is the image of Christ — which we become as we "put on Christ" or put on the scriptures!

So what does that make the Holy Spirit? In the OT, the Spirit was called "it," the Spirit of God. At that time, it was the wisdom of God .. but in Christ, that wisdom was made "He" and flesh for us to see. We receive "it," the Spirit, the "mind of Christ," when we are baptized by the gospel, repent, and receive the truth — apply the truth to our lives. And once we have "it," it becomes a person, right?

So where do we get more of the "mind of Christ?" from the studying and applying scripture.

This is new for me and I could use your input if you have any thoughts.

skypair

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

Skypair ...

The quote function is doing that funky thing it does on my computer every now and then by not quoting your post. But you asked me "Do you see it?"

No. Because it is not there. You and 98 are both in error. Sorry.

 

[skypair]

Skypair ...

The quote function is doing that funky thing it does on my computer every now and then by not quoting your post. But you asked me "Do you see it?"

No. Because it is not there. You and 98 are both in error. Sorry.

Well, let's have it from your pov. Maybe we will be blessed as you apparently are.

skypair

 

[98cwitr]

I'll dispense with reposting the verse. The NASB also translated as "message" the Greek word logos, which is what the original passage says. I'm certain you know how logos is typically translated. In John 1:1, when Jesus is identified as the Word, it is translated from the Greek logos.

Further evidence:

1 Corinthians 12, NASB
8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;​

Notice the word (logos) comes through the Spirit. How can the "word" come through the Spirit and be the Spirit at the same time? Particularly when John identifies the Word as God (Jesus)?

Ephesians 6
And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God ...​

Here Paul identifies the "sword of the Spirit" as the word of God. The Spirit is not the "sword." The Spirit bring the sword.I would suggest you begin reconsidering your stance. You are reading something into Scripture that is not there.Utterly irrelevant. Both pre-incarnately and in the flesh during His Earthly ministry, He it the Word. Flesh does not define that status for Him. However, since you asked, He ascended in the flesh. He was standing before His disciples, teaching until the very end, when they saw Him taken up into the clouds. He obviously does not retain any of that fleshly identity in heaven now, but even so, by virtue of having once been human, forever retains the description of human even though He possesses, at this time, no human qualities.

In a continuation of reading John 1:32+ and Revelation 19, I have come to agree and stand corrected. Thank you. The Spirit wouldnt have come down from heaven and Baptized Christ if He was already the Spirit.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

Not a problem, 98. Thank you for the gracious response. It is the Spirit who reveals, not me. I just use words.

 

[98cwitr]

I think this set of verses really proved it...thanks be to God

Rev 19

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[a] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[c] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:


KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

I was unable to refute any stance I previously had after reading this.

 

[Skala]

You have not allowed the text to speak through a plain reading of the text. We can't have an amicable discussion when you do this.

The "plain reading" of the text is not synonymous with "extra information the Arminian reads into the text"

 

[sadia Mohamed]

43:5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;43:4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.43:3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.43:2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.43:1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine

 

[sadia Mohamed]

My hope is built on nothing less than JESUS CHRIST. I are not trust the sweetest frame but wholly lean on his blest name. On Christ the solid Rock i stand all other ground is sinking sand.Oh what a awesome God I serve. Thabk you Lord for this wonderful gift of life. I Am Very Very Greatfull For All You Have Done For Me. Oh Lord Today is the remembers of the day you fulfilled your word in Genesis 21:6 Genesis 17:15-16 Isaiah 54:1 Deuteronomy 7:14 Exodus 23:26 Psalms 113:9 Today marks the remembers of the day you brought laughter to my beloved parents. We bless your Name this days because you proved to the devil that there is God in israel. Oh Lord I pray as you add a year to my life grant me all my heart desire this year. And all the people who remembered me today by sending cards, and letters, gifts and good wishes.Thank you for all the experience of this past year; for times of success which will always be happy memories,
for times of failure which reminded me of my own weakness and of my need for you,for times of joy when the sun was shining,
for times of sadness which drove me to you. Forgive me for the hours I wasted,for the chances I failed to take,
for the opportunities I missed this past year.Help me in the days ahead to make this the best year ahead,and through it to bring good credit to myself, happiness and pride to my loved ones, and joy to your name Amen.Happy birthday to myself

 

[Avid]

43:5 Fear not: for I am with thee: ...

Seems you are quoting from Isaiah. It would help to say so. Why do you list yourself as being of another religion?
.