Question about TULIP

[5solas]

If you really have free will to choose then you should be able to choose to commit no sin in this period and fulfil the command.
Your time starts from when you see this post. Good luck!

a very good idea - yeah

Christian Forums Message

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to oworm again.​

​

 

[BBAS 64]

He instructed me NOT to speak to those who will NOT heed.

I have seen MANY cases where in this same discussion, VALID Biblical evidence to prove your theory wrong has been presented, and in EVERY instance, the same thing always happened.

Those individuals in the Calvinsitic camp ALWAYS denied that any Biblical evidence of any kind was ever presented, when that evidence was right there in the thread for all to clearly see!

And in may cases (NOT ALL) some (CALVINISTS) resorted to posting extremely vile replies to their counterparts, posting very insulting remarks.

The bottom line is, One who truly has a teachable Spirit WILL be willing to acknowledge ANY Biblical evidence that in anyway refutes their doctrine.

I have never once seen even ONE Calvinist who was ever willing to do this.

I have read your evidence, and in SOME areas I do agree with you, BUT there are MANY valid Biblical evidences which altogether prove many parts of your doctrine to be false, especially the doctrine of exclusive select election.

Good day, PE

You do not understand the sound Gospel

The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon

And what is the heresy of Arminianism but the addition of something to the work of the Redeemer? Every heresy, if brought to the touchstone, will discover itself here. I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus. Such a gospel I abhor.

PE if you have a question please ask we will usescripture to answer it.

Re, Election

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

eklektos

Thayer Definition:

1) picked out, chosen

1a) chosen by God

1a1) to obtain salvation through Christ

1a1a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God

1a2) the Messiah in called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable

1a3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence

ALT:


Mat 24:31 "And He will send out His angels with [the] 'sound of a loud trumpet-blast,' and 'they will gather together' His chosen ones [or, elect] from the four winds, from [the] farthest limits of [the] heavens to [the other] farthest limits of them. [Exod 19:16; Deut 30:4]


That is a Biblical view of election , what is yours post scriptue please, and deal with the verse I posted.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Jon_]

He instructed me NOT to speak to those who will NOT heed.

I have seen MANY cases where in this same discussion, VALID Biblical evidence to prove your theory wrong has been presented, and in EVERY instance, the same thing always happened.

Those individuals in the Calvinsitic camp ALWAYS denied that any Biblical evidence of any kind was ever presented, when that evidence was right there in the thread for all to clearly see!

And in may cases (NOT ALL) some (CALVINISTS) resorted to posting extremely vile replies to their counterparts, posting very insulting remarks.

The bottom line is, One who truly has a teachable Spirit WILL be willing to acknowledge ANY Biblical evidence that in anyway refutes their doctrine.

I have never once seen even ONE Calvinist who was ever willing to do this.

I have read your evidence, and in SOME areas I do agree with you, BUT there are MANY valid Biblical evidences which altogether prove many parts of your doctrine to be false, especially the doctrine of exclusive select election.

IT is positively ANNOYING when you randomly CAPTIALIZE words in the MIDDLE of your sentences.

I would really like to see some of this valid evidence you claim to have. I don't believe you have even quoted a single Scripture since you came rampaging into our forum.

Put up or shut up, as they say.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[oworm]

He instructed me NOT to speak to those who will NOT heed.

How did He do this?

I have seen MANY cases where in this same discussion, VALID Biblical evidence to prove your theory wrong has been presented, and in EVERY instance, the same thing always happened.

Those individuals in the Calvinsitic camp ALWAYS denied that any Biblical evidence of any kind was ever presented, when that evidence was right there in the thread for all to clearly see!

For my benefit could you show me the valid biblical evidence that refutes my Reformed beliefs?

The bottom line is, One who truly has a teachable Spirit WILL be willing to acknowledge ANY Biblical evidence that in anyway refutes their doctrine.

Ok,but this is a double edged sword that cuts both ways.

I have never once seen even ONE Calvinist who was ever willing to do this.

the one composing this post is willing

I have read your evidence, and in SOME areas I do agree with you,

what exactly do you agree with?

BUT there are MANY valid Biblical evidences which altogether prove many parts of your doctrine to be false,

again i ask that you be pleased to show me?

especially the doctrine of exclusive select election.

How then do you read the following scripture texts?

EPH 1:3-5 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-

EPH 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,................

From the derogatory terms you use of Calvinists you seem to imply that we think of ourselves as some kind of elite and exclusive band who think of ourelves in an elevated position. No true Calvinist thinks of himself in this way atall. A proper understanding of the doctrines of Gods grace shows us that there is absolutely nothing in us that would draw us to God outside of Gods eternal decree in salvation. You yourself have reffered to God as Sovereign. If He is infact sovereign then that means that he is infact Lord over all his creation and works out everything in accordance with His will. If God does not work out EVERYTHING in accordance with his will then He cannot be God.
If all things are not subject to Him then that makes Him a God who reacts to circumstances and human decisions.This implies that God is infact limited and if he is limited then he simply cannot be Sovereign!
Now i know it's a tough pill to swallow but the truth of scripture teaches us that the whole human race is under the wrath of God except those that he calls and causes to be born again by His Spirit: read carefully the following from Pauls letter to the Romans: I have highlighted in bold italics the parts you may wish to ponder:

RO 9:16-21 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, `Why did you make me like this?' " Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?


Texts such as this should make you want to fall to the ground and cry to God in apprectiation that he has had mercy on your soul apart from anything you think you could do to obtain it. There is absolutely nothing in you that desires God except what He put there. Its actually the height of blashemous pride to think that there is anything in us that God respond to outside of his self revelation of Himself!
Any desire we have for God and any decision we make to come to Him was planted in us by his gracious and merciful kindness. That is why Paul said in Romans:3:11 "there is no one who understands,no one who seeks God."

 

[oworm]

I will pray for you.....

Thankyou...thats very kind of you.

Could you maybe answer my questions and respond to my comments?

 

[BBAS 64]

You First!


Thus far all you, or any other calvinist have ever presented are nothing more than the lying interpretations of very inadequate small portions of some very small parts of Gods word.

GOD said, the ONLY sound doctrine is that doctrine which is based on ALL of Gods word
(2nd Timothy 3:16)

Calvins lies are NOT based on an adequate use of ALL of the word of God, never has been!

Have you not ever read 2nd Timothy 3:16?

OR do you as all other calvinists deny it's very existense?

NO wait, of course, to you this scripture does not apply, as does 99% of the word of God!

Now then IF you want me to consider accepting your doctrine as a sound Biblical doctrine then USE all of Gods word to support it, you and every other calvinist, here, and in every other Christian message board I have ever been a member of, have NEVER ONCE done that!

I, and many others like myself, have MANY times, and each and every tiome we have people like you have denied the presentation of any Biblical evidence we gave, so YOU put up or shut up.....

BTW I forgive you.....


​

Good day,

I will remind you you are a guest on this fourm, this is a place for reformed believers try to be a "respecting " guest.

GOD said, the ONLY sound doctrine is that doctrine which is based on ALL of Gods word
(2nd Timothy 3:16]

Kind of funny how you have posted no Scripture or interacted with any I have posted... one does start to wonder

By the way that is a bad translation of the greek.

2Ti 3:16 pasa grafh qeopneustov kai wfelimov prov didaskalian prov aelegmon tsbelegxon prov epanorqwsin prov paideian thn en dikaiosunh

On second thought REALLY BAD.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

I choose to believe all of Gods word, not some of it.......

Good Day, PE

Provide you definition of the term Elect as used in Scripture also provide the greek source..

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Beoga]

Now then IF you want me to consider accepting your doctrine as a sound Biblical doctrine then USE all of Gods word to support it, you and every other calvinist, here, and in every other Christian message board I have ever been a member of, have NEVER ONCE done that!

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
Gen 1:6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
Gen 1:7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
Gen 1:9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
Gen 1:10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
Gen 1:12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.
Gen 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,
Gen 1:15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth." And it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made the two great lights--the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night--and the stars.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
Gen 1:20 And God said, "Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens."
Gen 1:21 So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."
Gen 1:23 And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
Gen 1:24 And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds--livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
Gen 1:29 And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food." And it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

Am I on the right track because I have all afternoon, I could continue?

 

[BBAS 64]

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
Gen 1:6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
Gen 1:7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
Gen 1:9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
Gen 1:10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so.
Gen 1:12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.
Gen 1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years,
Gen 1:15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth." And it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made the two great lights--the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night--and the stars.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
Gen 1:20 And God said, "Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens."
Gen 1:21 So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."
Gen 1:23 And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
Gen 1:24 And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds--livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
Gen 1:29 And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food." And it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

Am I on the right track because I have all afternoon, I could continue?

Good Day, LA

That is because you do not sleep..

Contuine when you get to...

Gen 20:6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.

PE will dodge the implications..

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[oworm]

Pentecostalevangelist.
it is very clear that you have chosen to come to our forum in an attitude of derisiveness. may i remind you in all humility that this kind of attitude is not in keeping with the temper of a Christian brother. You are clearly not interested in learning anything about reformed theology and have no intentiomn of carrying on a reasoned argument. it might be better for all that you not post in this forum again. If you insist on coming here and maintaining your current attitude i will have no choice but to report you to the admin which will put you in danger of being warned and possibly disciplined for your uncouth remarks!
As i assume from your alias you are a pentecostal. Can i kindly direct you to your own fellowship forum where you will find brethren who may share your denominational beliefs. i have provided a link below to the forum for your convenience:
http://www.christianforums.com/f122-spirit-filled-pentecostal-charismatic.html

 

[Beoga]

IF you would sincerely apply ALL of Gods word to your life, you would repent, and reject calvins lies, BUT you know, I know and most especially God knows, that will never happen......

Why, cause God has not predestined for it to occur?
I mean, if I have a free will, then sufficient amount of Scriptures should change my mind, but I guess you are right, that will never happen because no one (meaning you) will provide me with those Scriptures to change my mind.

 

[oworm]

IF you would sincerely apply ALL of Gods word to your life, you would repent, and reject calvins lies, BUT you know, I know and most especially God knows, that will never happen......

The implications of this post are reprehensible.

 

[oworm]

Goodbye folks, I'll definitely be praying for all of you to be delivered from the bondage of deception you are all so deeply bound up in, BUT then YOU have to want to be free yourself, you have to determined, according to your own free will, that you will be free, and then YOU have to reject the lie you have been deceived by, repent, and be free!

Goodbye and God bless you

 

[Beoga]

Good Day, LA

That is because you do not sleep..

Good day bbas

I think you may have a point here.

 

[Beoga]

Goodbye folks, I'll definitely be praying for all of you to be delivered from the bondage of deception you are all so deeply bound up in, BUT then YOU have to want to be free yourself, you have to determined, according to your own free will, that you will be free, and then YOU have to reject the lie you have been deceived by, repent, and be free!

How can we do this unless someone shows us by Scripture the error of our ways?

 

[BBAS 64]

Goodbye folks, I'll definitely be praying for all of you to be delivered from the bondage of deception you are all so deeply bound up in, BUT then YOU have to want to be free yourself, you have to determined, according to your own free will, that you will be free, and then YOU have to reject the lie you have been deceived by, repent, and be free!

Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

My free will is of no use to my bondage.. nor is it to you, "if" he sets you free then you are free "if" his does not ... well you get the point.


God bless and good bye,

Bill

 

[PentecostalEvangelist]

Folks, no matter what I say, I will always be a violation of forum rules......

 

[Imblessed]

Folks, no matter what I say, I will always be a violation of forum rules......

You know, it MIGHT help if you would stop putting words in our mouths, telling us what we are going to do(and not do) and start actually putting forth this "evidence" you have that proves us wrong.

You've been going on and on(and on...) about how you have shown all this scriptural evidence proving "us" utterly wrong and how "we" have disregarded it and how "we" are saying you are not christian, and "we" are being mean and hateful, and how "we" all hate you.........

yet I haven't seen even ONE bit of scripture and the only one being mean and hateful in here is you.

What do you want from us? Do you want to show us why you think we are wrong? Would you like to have a civil conversation about our differences? Do you even want to know why we believe as we do?

Or are you just interested in punishing this group because you've run into some rude Calvinists before? Honey, there are rude people everywhere. I sincerely apologize that you've run into some closeminded calvinists somewhere--but please do no take your anger out on us. We have done nothing but try and be civil, and believe me, you are NOT making that easy!

(Jon, sorry about the random all capped words....... )

 

[PentecostalEvangelist]

You know, it MIGHT help if you would stop putting words in our mouths, telling us what we are going to do(and not do) and start actually putting forth this "evidence" you have that proves us wrong.

You've been going on and on(and on...) about how you have shown all this scriptural evidence proving "us" utterly wrong and how "we" have disregarded it and how "we" are saying you are not christian, and "we" are being mean and hateful, and how "we" all hate you.........

yet I haven't seen even ONE bit of scripture and the only one being mean and hateful in here is you.

What do you want from us? Do you want to show us why you think we are wrong? Would you like to have a civil conversation about our differences? Do you even want to know why we believe as we do?

Or are you just interested in punishing this group because you've run into some rude Calvinists before? Honey, there are rude people everywhere. I sincerely apologize that you've run into some closeminded calvinists somewhere--but please do no take your anger out on us. We have done nothing but try and be civil, and believe me, you are NOT making that easy!

(Jon, sorry about the random all capped words....... )

You are absolutely right, I of course have always been wrong about everything, and of course none of you could ever be wrong about anything, I am very sorry for posting.....

 

[Jon_]

(Jon, sorry about the random all capped words....... )

I love ya, anyway, Windi!

Besides, it's cute when you do it.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon