The Qur'an is either the Word of God or it is not. If you truly believed in the Qur'an how could anything in the Bible convince you that the Qur'an is false?
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Question about the Kaaba
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HumbleSiPilot77
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Why? Does Quran teach blind obedience? No questioning? No criticism? That behavior is actually of islamic ummah not Quran itself. Quran makes claims for and against the Scriptures. It is a simple practice to put them to test, compare them. I did truly believe in Quran, and I never claimed an easy transition to Christian Scriptures, however, for example believing in a "corrupt" Christian Scriptures argument/claim is not of faith, it is of blind obedience, that has nothing to do with faith. I did become a Christian after a few years of investigation of my own. Inconsistent arguments and claims of muslims on this board is a clear evidence to their cluelessness how to counter the arguments of Scriptures...
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How about contradictory claims for a start. If that doesn't get you to start thinking critically, then you won't have any reason to accept everything under the sun as authentic. Often times, common sense should be sufficient in judging things.
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Doesn't the Qur'an teach that the Qur'an itself is God's word? I would assume for some reason you must have started to doubt that or you wouldn't have put them to test. What specifically brought you to the belief that the Qur'an was not the final authority, that the Bible was more reliable?
Please describe, in as much detail as possible, this transition.
So "here is what God says in the Qur'an" is not a sufficient argument, right. If the Qur'an actually is God's Word, why would quoting it not be sufficient?
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I just want to talk to Bushmaster right now. His experience interests me. I want to get some details.
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Threads are more permanent. PMs keep vanishing, so I can't keep track of lengthy discussions.
That's what I want to find out, from someone who has experienced it. There is someone who was converted out of the Baha'i Faith by the Campus Crusade for Christ but he has shown no interest in answering my questions. This is the next best thing.
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As far as I am aware, there is NOTHING in the bible that says the 66 books (or 72 - depending on which Christian 'side' you are) are the words of God.
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HumbleSiPilot77
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And that is the problem, you are NOT aware...
I_are_sceptical, I will get back to you when I get some time tomorrow, it is 5 am in Baghdad right now.
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Montalban
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When it says "And God says", I take it then that it's not saying it's God's word?
(Genesis 1:3
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.)
To clarify, I should say that it's not ALL the word (directly) of God.
But it contains both the words, and the will of God as man understood them at the time.
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U
UIN
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for this I do like and don't like this forum.
the post began from simple questions about the Kaaba, and now turned into tho origins of religions!!!
the post began from simple questions about the Kaaba, and now turned into tho origins of religions!!!
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HumbleSiPilot77
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ENLIGHTEN me then
We have been trying, but you willingly refuse and deny what we have to say and try to dig your way out of arguments with made up theories, though I am hopeful that you will become a Christian one day.
Ok, the need to know more about Christ Jesus. How come this book they call Bible tells so much about Him but I don't find anything nearly close to it in the Quran? Why there are different versions of biblical stories both in Bible and Quran? Hey wait a minute I thought you people said Christ didn't go to Cross? So why is He there... Christianity throws extraordinary credibility to the story of Christ commonly told by several men, everyone believes this for about 6 centuries and then what happens in Arabia???
I was simply approached by someone who asked me if I was interested in reading the Bible, until that point in my life, I rejected all the offers considering Quran being the final authority and nothing else out there was any better. This time I chose not to reject under the circumstances I was in, and this person was approaching with good faith, he started reading several passages and I found myself interrupting a lot saying "oh no, it should be like this not like that" and I was startled that, my islamic knowledge was not completing anything, it was attempting to correct what was written in the Bible. My better half used to ask me what we know about Jesus, and even after reading the bible being puzzled, I continued to hold onto what I know. Though I kept reading about this Bible, oneday I decided to visit a church and experienced the atmosphere. It was Easter that year it dawned on me, these people belived Christ was on the Cross for a reason, and what happens if He was not.... That was my decision to leave Islam but I feared hellfire. I wanted to learn more about Christ but I was held back due to my fear of punishment for doing so. Those were very stressful days, I wanted to become a Christian but I feared hellfire, wow... I kept reading and joined internet discussions, I observed attitudes and approaches of both Christians and muslims against eachother. In time, reading Christ's bold statements, my fear faded away. This is in a nutshell, of a two year process, ask specific questions if you'd like.
No not to me anymore. If Quran said "don't become Christians, they are bad people" for example, I would examine why they ar ebad people, Bible works that way and historically we find what
He really wants to become a Christian and he doesn't want you to blur his vision actually, you will make him doubt himself. I wanted quite the opposite, I was on Islamic forums the entire conversion process, that is why it was a stressful process. I don't know how easy to leave the Baha'i faith but leaving Islam is not that easy.
See Post #30 again and tell me why I said your answer did not adequately address my point.
He actually answered your point so good, it was like a sledgehammer on top, crushing it!
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Let me put it this way:
I was hoping you could show me where the bible says that all the books, the OT and the NT, are the words of God. I have not seen any.
I like Bushmaster's 'sledgehammer' reference, although he did not point to anything for the bible being the words of God.... and he wished I will be a Christian
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HumbleSiPilot77
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Why? It has to tell you that? You do not have proper judgement to arrive your own conclusion?
Ok, there is a lame argument, that actually points to nowhere and there is a credible argument, Bible offers this difference, it doesn't make the claim because the content speaks for itself, there is a testimony. However you are dooming yourself by setting a "if ... then" condition for your belief. So Quran boldly speaks, Lo and behold these are the words of Allah, as in need of establishing credibility, by claim! And Bible says THE LORD SAID! It was a hard sledgehammer blow, you didn't wake up to the difference yet, don't assume we are going to let you lead discussions with your own conditions.
I expressed optimism despite your stubbornness of not truly investigating what you defend. And if you'll, oneday, you will remember all these.... and he wished I will be a Christian
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