Question about the flood

[Bible Highlighter]

You said this: "If Christians today are not meeting your expectations, then chances are they are not following Jesus. So your problem is not with true Christianity but with false Christianity."

The only Christians who are not meeting my expectations today are "Bible-believing" Christians, so according to you they are false Christians.

So your world view of Christians is the exact same as that of atheists? I was talking to an atheist before and not a Christian in regards to what it means to be a Christian. He no doubt has many moral problems with Christians like prosperity preachers, and Christians who think it is okay to watch porn, and liberal Christians who regard most of the Word of God as fairy tales. So what kind of Christians are you talking about? What kind of sins or moral issues do you see in Christians today as being okay with God? Do you believe in Eternal Security or a sin and still be saved gospel?


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[Subduction Zone]

You said this: "If Christians today are not meeting your expectations, then chances are they are not following Jesus. So your problem is not with true Christianity but with false Christianity."

The only Christians who are not meeting my expectations today are "Bible-believing" Christians, so according to you they are false Christians.

I was already piling on him for tons of other errors when I responded to that post. I pretty much let it go. But I saw exactly the same thing that you did.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Right here:

". If Christians today are not meeting your expectations, then chances are they are not following Jesus. So your problem is not with true Christianity but with false Christianity."

Nope. Nowhere did I say the words, "Bible-believing" Christianity is false Christianity?" He said those words and not me. The words in my original post say nothing of the sort. Maybe it is your imagination working over time that thinks my words magically say that.



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[Subduction Zone]

So your world view of Christians is the exact same as that of atheists? I was talking to an atheist before and not a Christian in regards to what it means to be a Christian. He no doubt has many moral problems with Christians like prosperity preachers, and Christians who think it is okay to watch porn, and liberal Christians who regard most of the Word of God as fairy tales. So what kind of Christians are you talking about? What kind of sins or moral issues do you see in Christians today as being okay with God?


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Tell me, why should it matter who you were talking to? And no, I only have problems with clearly dishonest Christians. That would be prosperity preachers and creationists mainly. Since almost everyone watches porn I would have problems with Christians that were hypocrites about it. And you made the blasphemous error of calling the Bible the "Word of God" again. Why do you keep making that error?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nope. Nowhere did I say the words, "Bible-believing" Christianity is false Christianity?" He said those words and not me. The words you quoted above does not say the words that he said.



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You need to work on your logic skills. That is what you implied, even if you did not realize it. And I quoted what you said. Not what he said. You were the one that implied that Bible believing Christians were false Christians. Like I said, you need to work on your logic skills.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You need to work on your logic skills. That is what you implied, even if you did not realize it. And I quoted what you said. Not what he said. You were the one that implied that Bible believing Christians were false Christians. Like I said, you need to work on your logic skills.

No. You are seeing something in my post that does not exist. Nowhere did I say the exact words you quoted here. You are pushing something on me that is false. Nowhere did I imply that in my words. It is your own imagination reading that into the words.


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[Subduction Zone]

No. You are seeing something in my post that does not exist. Nowhere did I say the exact words you quoted here. You are pushing something on me that is false.

The parts in the quotation marks were an unedited copy and paste by me. If you have not edited that post I will copy and paste it again.

I explained it to you. So you are without excuse now.
What kind of Christians are we talking about that is acceptable to you?
Prosperity preachers?
Christians who think porn is not a serious sin and it is okay to watch?


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No, you didn't. Or at the very least your "explanation" implied that you followed "false Christianity".

You seem to have a very skewed type of Christianity. There is no question that prosperity preachers are abuses. And there is no question that moderate porn watching harms no one. You picked to weird opposites.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Tell me, why should it matter who you were talking to?

Because if he is Christian, then his standard of morality would be different than your standard of morality.

And no, I only have problems with clearly dishonest Christians.

So you think all Christians are dishonest?

That would be prosperity preachers and creationists mainly.

Then your problem is not with Christianity but certain sects of Christianity.
But yes, I agree with you on prosperity preachers. They are wrong. The fact that you can recognize this is good. But do you believe it is okay for men in the world of atheism to be rich? What is the difference between a richman in the atheistic world and the rich Christian (Besides the point that they are violating God's Word)? What other moral reason why it may be wrong?

As for Creationism: I know Evolution has been ingrained into your life since you were a pup. So naturally you are going to see things with rose colored glasses. But actually morally speaking: Believing in atheism and or Evolution is worse morally. For like I said, if a person thinks they are just the result of a single celled organism, and they are a process of natural selection, then morality does not exist and a person can do whatever they want. They can murder, rape, sleep with many prostitutes, and drive and get drunk. Life will hold no true purpose or meaning but to find pleasure.

Since almost everyone watches porn

I used to watch porn, but Jesus Christ has set me free.
My life is not ruled by such dark things anymore.

I would have problems with Christians that were hypocrites about it.

Do you view porn as wrong?
Why do you think many Christians do?

And you made the blasphemous error of calling the Bible the "Word of God" again. Why do you keep making that error?

Not at all. The Bible refers to the Word of God as being the Holy Scriptures.

"Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him." (Proverbs 30:5).

"And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." (Luke 4:4).

Note: Capitalization does not change anything. I can capitalize words that are important. It is common to do this in the English language for things that are important.


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[Bible Highlighter]

The parts in the quotation marks were an unedited copy and paste by me. If you have not edited that post I will copy and paste it again.

I said,
"So your problem is not with true Christianity but with false Christianity."

This is not the same as saying,
""Bible-believing" Christianity is false Christianity"

Two different sentences here.
Your logic is flawed.


..

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I do not have a problem with Jesus. I have a problem with people that abuse the Bible.

Jesus referred to the global flood as being real. So you do have a problem with Jesus.

For Jesus said,
"They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all." (Luke 17:27).

I never claimed that atheists are perfect, though on average the appear to be more moral than Christians.

That is totally false. Atheists swear, view porn, hate, murder, celebrate in sinful things with no remorse. I used to be an atheist, and there were many sins I had to repent of. So you are lying and seeing what you want to see.

You may have believed the falsehoods that you spewed, but they were still falsehoods.

May the Lord open your eyes in Jesus name.

Now you are just demonstrating your own lack of morals. You may not realize it but atheists know that they have to account for their wrong doings.

Not true at all. There are many sins they can do in secret and can think they can get away with. I know. I used to be one.

Your religion gives people a "get out of jail free card". All one has to do is to "accept Jesus" and ask forgiveness at the end of a long and wicked life and all would be hunky dory.

Yes, God can give a person a new heart if they repent or if they are sorry for their sins. People have stopped using drugs, alcohol, and stopped being addicted to porn, and other destructive things after accepting Jesus.

Please, don't make false claims.

Wisdom is justified of her children.

And you are merely abusing your belief again. A proper Christian would think twice before saying something so foolish.

So Noah did not curse Ham?
Peter did not tell Simon to repent of his wickedness and say that his heart was not right with God?

Again, this is a falsehood on your part. A proper Christian would think twice. My view is much less slanted than yours.

I used to believe in atheism. So I would say not.

ROFLAMAO!! Oh my. You really need to learn before you make such foolish claims. You just demonstrated that you showed up to a gunfight with a rubber band.

Why can't you be honest and admit that you have no clue at all?

You are just speaking words of opinion here and not really proving your case at all.
I have provided several reasons already that supports a global flood.
You have provided nothing to show there is no global flood.

No, no, please. You are just making me laugh. I know because I have an education in the sciences. You obviously lost what little high school science education that you have. I can help you to learn, but if you are just going to spew nonsense you will remain ignorant for your entire life.

No thanks. You have nothing to teach me that I would want to learn. I will trust in the Lord and His good ways.

You do know that your superstitions are illegal to teach in schools, don't you? That is because there is no evidence at all for them and mountains of evidence for evolution. For geology, for cosmology.

This is a joke.

Today there are more than two hundred known parameters required for a planet to support life; For every one of these parameters must be met exactly, or there would be no life on Earth

Here are just 20 of them.

1. Earth is at the perfect distance from the sun.
(Too close and we burn up; Too far away and we would freeze).

2. Earth is in a habitable zone of galaxy where there is no radiation and wandering planetoids.

3. Earth's orbit of the sun does not take us too close to the sun.

4. Earth has the right amount of magnetic fields generated from it's core to protect us from harmful rays of the sun.

5. Earth has the right kind of star (i.e. the sun) which gives off the right amount of output that is not too strong (that would burn us up).

6. Earth is spinning at a rate that makes life possible.

7. Earth is tilted at the right axis for life.

8. Earth's moon as at the right size and distance so as to provide the perfect kind of tides for life.

9. Earth's two gas giants (i.e. Jupiter and Saturn) prevent wandering astroids from hitting the Earth.

10. Earth has the right amount of oxygen or air for life to thrive.

11. Earth has the right kind of gravity for life to thrive.

12. Earth has enough useable water so as to sustain life.

13. Earth has enough minerals, plant, and animal life so as to provide for humans.

14. Earth's atmosphere is at just the right level to protect life.

15. Earth's tectonic processes which recycle the crust are just right so as to maintain life on our planet by recycling minerals and nutrients that we need.

16. Earth's right amount of gases in the atmosphere making life suitable.

17. Earth has the right amount of carbon dioxide.

18. Earth is just the right size.

19. Earth has right amount of Nitogen that makes life possible.

20. Earth is at the right age to support life.​

Taking all these factors into account, it seem like a miracle that we are even here at all. For if even one of the above variables did not exist, then we would not exist.



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[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You need to have the Holy Spirit to truly understand what His word is saying. So stop trying to understand His Word from a human perspective and repent and ask God to help show you what His Word says (So you can get a bigger picture of things that are going on). You are focusing a laser beam on a particular text and not looking at things from a larger perspective. This is why Job was upset with God. Job wanted God to answer him as to why he was suffering. He did not see it as being fair. Yet, God basically told Job about the wonders of His creation that he could not fathom before. Job was in awe of God's great creation and felt small to the wonder of it all. In other words, God was saying that there is a bigger picture or plan for Job's life that he could not see.

As for birds dying: We have to first see all the good things that have happened through out the animal kingdom first to weigh in the fair treatment of animals or birds. We see many animals (including birds) live very happy lives. It is suggestive that the animal kindom will be resurrected at some point in the future according to Scripture. For the creature eagerly waits the manifestation of the sons of God (i.e. the resurrection of believers).

19 "For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." (Romans 8:19-23).

So death is not some kind of horrible atheistic nightmare of non-existence for those who are good or innocent. The Bible says there will be a resurrection. Death is not the end for God's Kingdom or people.

I apologise for not putting a winking smiley on my post to clarify that it wasn't entirely serious.

p.s. Death for an atheist cannot be a nightmare, horrible or otherwise, because the non-existent don't have nightmares. Dying, on the other hand, can be quite unpleasant.

 

[SkyWriting]

What was the purpose of saving the animals?

The same uses we have for them today.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I apologise for not putting a winking smiley on my post to clarify that it wasn't entirely serious.

p.s. Death for an atheist cannot be a nightmare, horrible or otherwise, because the non-existent don't have nightmares. Dying, on the other hand, can be quite unpleasant.

I am saying that the idea of facing non-existence is a nightmare in this life for you.
Sigh. Nowhere did I say that you would have a nightmare after you are dead.


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[SkyWriting]

What my Question is: God asked Noah to build an ark to save the animals. The animals were his own creation. He could have re-created them after the flood.

Therefore, what was the purpose of saving the animals?
Or, in other words, why go through all the trouble?

Good question. God stopped Creating on day 7.

There may have been a few exceptions by Jesus hand,
but evidently magicians had already tainted the audience
and creation was not a valid evangelism tool.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Because if he is Christian, then his standard of morality would be different than your standard of morality.

I am not so sure of that. Yes, quite a few Christians have a lower standard of morality than I do. But that is not the case for all Christians.

So you think all Christians are dishonest?

No, creationists are merely either dishonest, uneducated, or possibly crazy. But most Christians do not believe the creation myths of Genesis. They are a minority worldwide.

Then your problem is not with Christianity but certain sects of Christianity.

I never claimed to have a problem with Christianity in general. That was your incorrect assumption.

But yes, I agree with you on prosperity preachers. They are wrong. The fact that you can recognize this is good. But do you believe it is okay for men in the world of atheism to be rich? What is the difference between a richman in the atheistic world and the rich Christian (Besides the point that they are violating God's Word)? What other moral reason why it may be wrong?

Sure, it is okay. But one has to get rich in a moral way. One does not have to abuse others to become rich. And once rich, one has a greater duty to one's fellow man because one has a greater ability to affect it. Bill Gates understands this.

As for Creationism: I know Evolution has been ingrained into your life since you were pup. So naturally you are going to see things with rose colored glasses. But actually morally speaking: Believing in atheism and or Evolution is worse morally. For like I said, if a person thinks they are just the result of a single celled organism, and they are a process of natural selection, then morality does not exist and a person can do whatever they want. They can murder, rape, sleep with many prostitutes, and drive and get drunk. Life will hold no true purpose or meaning but to find pleasure.

No, science has been ingrained. You simply have no education in the matter and do not be willing to learn. You are once again making false claims about others. In other words you are breaking the tenth commandment even if you believe the nonsense that you are spewing. And you also admitted that you have poorly developed morals. Perhaps for you it is a good thing that you are a Christian. It is so sad to see that you are projecting your poor morals upon others.

I used to watch porn, but Jesus Christ has set me free.
My life is not ruled by such dark things anymore.

Or perhaps you merely got older and lost interest. That happens too. Wild hormones raging through your body at puberty will affect you.

Do you view porn as wrong?
Why do you think many Christians do?

Of course not. At least in moderation. But then even drinking water is deadly in excess. And Christians think pron is evil because the Bible has poorly developed morals. It treats women as property. Especially the Old Testament. There is the false perceived property damage if a woman has sex with someone other than her husband.

Not at all. The Bible refers to the Word of God as being the Holy Scriptures.

"Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him." (Proverbs 30:5).

"And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." (Luke 4:4).

Oops, fail. Neither of those was referring to the Bible. Or even "the Scriptures". You inferred that the reference to the "word of God" meant the Bible. Did you ever stop to think that the "word of God" might have a deeper meaning?

Note: Capitalization does not change anything. I can capitalize words that are important. It is common to do this in the English language for things that are important.


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I understand that and do not mind an occasional upper case to emphasize a point. I do not appreciate when people use excessive "green ink":

Green ink - RationalWiki

You will notice that the true loons tend to change color, and put some phrases in bold, or Italics, or change font size. And that was mild. Drat, I can't get rid of the italics.

 

[SkyWriting]

And you made the blasphemous error of calling the Bible the "Word of God" again. Why do you keep making that error?

Its well documented:
2 Corinthians 2:17 Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God
for profit. ...

Revelation 1:2 who testifies to everything he saw--that is, the the word
of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. ...

Colossians 1:25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to
present to you the word of God in its fullness ...

2 Corinthians 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception,
nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by ...

1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable,
through the living and enduring word of God. ...


Bible Search: Word of God

 

[Speedwell]

No. You are seeing something in my post that does not exist. Nowhere did I say the exact words you quoted here. You are pushing something on me that is false. Nowhere did I imply that in my words. It is your own imagination reading that into the words.


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So what did you mean by "...Christians who aren't meeting your expectations...?"

The Christians who don't meet my expectations are "Bible-believing" Christians. Your mileage may vary.

 

[pshun2404]

That is a major non sequitur on your part. And no, it makes no sense at all that one has to believe a myth to understand a myth. If your God is real you should be able to understand him without "faith". In fact "faith" is the worst of all reasons to believe anything. Faith will lead you to Islam or Hinduism just as it will lead you to Christianity. Faith is not a path to the truth. You are also claiming that your God is an unjust God when you do that.

But then logical thought is eliminated by the cognitive dissonance that is involved in preserving a failed belief. We know that there was no flood. And since there are other threads for this we can discuss that elsewhere.

Let's get back to the OP's question. If God is real why didn't he merely recreate the animals after the flood? No one has really offered any answer that could not have been more easily answered with God creating the animals all over again.

You must not understand what "faith" means...it appears you think it is simply acceptance of something or things for which there is no indication. Like as if someone believed there really is a rabbit named Bugs or that life arose on its own from dead matter.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Atheists swear, view porn, hate, murder, celebrate in sinful things with no remorse. I used to be an atheist, and there were many sins I had to repent of.

I would be careful of projecting your own failings as an atheist onto others.

I used to believe in atheism.

That's an odd thing to say - I've never heard an atheist say they believe in atheism. Atheism is a lack of belief in god, or believing God doesn't exist; it's not something you can believe in.

I have provided several reasons already that supports a global flood.
You have provided nothing to show there is no global flood.

We've had whole threads here about the supposed flood. There are multiple independent lines of evidence that it couldn't have happened, and considerable evidence pointing to regional flooding as the most likely origin of the story. The reasons you provided are poor quality propaganda - I'd take them back and get a refund.

Today there are more than two hundred known parameters required for a planet to support life; For every one of these parameters must be met exactly, or there would be no life on Earth

Ah, no. Most of those allow considerable variation, and some are simply stunningly ignorant - for example, the oxygen in the atmosphere was produced by early anaerobic life and went from almost zero to 35% in the Carboniferous, and has since dropped to around 21%. And saying that 'Earth is at the right age to support life' is like a puddle marvelling how well the pothole fits it.

There are some good fine-tuning points to be made, but for some reason you didn't mention them.

Wait - were those 20 just a joke ? If so, I did laugh, but I also thought you were serious, so you got me.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I am saying that the idea of facing non-existence is a nightmare in this life for you.

Not really, no. Everyone dies; I'd prefer to go painlessly, but other than that I don't really think about it. Is that why you converted?

Sigh. Nowhere did I say that you would have a nightmare after you are dead...

C'mon, lighten up - do I have to put a smiley on everything ?