Question about my Baptism as an infant

[KennySe]

Christ is indeed the Savior.

oh.. and your other question... baptism doesn't save, your faith in Christ does!

How does your pastor explain to you 1 Peter 3:20-21?

 

[Cright]

It might be perceived as a man made doctrine... but it's not.

Christ requested for all of his believers to be baptised. So it is his obedience that must be followed to become a "member" you may attend and be involved in any of the activities that any member can be except the elder board, even if you are not a member.

There isn't a second fulll immersion baptism. Only 1-by full immsersion... which means for some people who have been baptized in some other form would be re-baptised.

In the eyes of the baptist this isn't really re-baptism as the word means immersion and the person wan't previously immerced.

Hope that clears things up a little.

There are different baptist groups, from what I understand MOST of them follow the same docterine as far as I know. I haven't heard any of them requireing a 2nd baptism by immersion... that was new to me.. ...anyone here have a church that would require this here???

God Bless,
C

 

[KennySe]

Hello Kenny, to answer your question...water baptism does not save, being baptised of the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus however, does. A water baptism is an outward show of and inward faith. Babies are not old enough to understand grace or the meaning behind faith in Jesus to save them to heaven, therefore they are not yet to an age of accountability and are covered under the grace of Jesus. As far as a baptism being "valid", the only baptism that has to be valid to save one to heaven is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Water baptism does not hold any saving power but Jesus does.

Then, I will not be fully immersed as there is no saving power in it.

I have been baptized of the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus. My baptism of the Holy Spirit is valid. There is no need for getting wet.

Right, Frankie?

 

[KennySe]

Cright, I follow your explanation to me.

Per your independent Baptist church, there must be one full immersion (as a person who can reason for one's self) to be obedient to Christ's request. This one full immersion could take place prior to joining your independent Baptist church.

****

Which is a separate issue than the one I have posed to Frankie.

 

[Cright]

Christ is indeed the Savior.



How does your pastor explain to you 1 Peter 3:20-21?

19through whom[4] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[5] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.


The answer is in vs. 21 - water SYMBOLIZES baptism.
not the removal of dirt from the body (like water would remove dirt)
but by the pledge of a good concience toward God through Jesus Christ!

You are baptized with the holy spirit (first when you accept christ, being immersed in the holy spirit, aka being saved). You are obedient by showing this publicly by being immersed in water, baptism.

this is my explination, not the one my pastor gave me.

As far as my pastor would explain... this is part of our "lifestyle statement"

5. IMMERSION:
"And He (Christ) is the head of the body, the church; ... that in everything He might have the supremacy." [Colossians 1:18]

• It's the symbol used to describe our salvation experience.
  
  For when you were baptized, you were buried with Christ, and in baptism you were also raised with Christ..." [Colossians 2:12]
• It's the symbol used to publicly illustrate our salvation.
  
  "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." [Matthew 28:19, 20]
• We practice baptism by immersion under water - the way Jesus was baptized and the way the Bible commands.

although that's the short version from the website.

If you want to know more about the churches stance, please PM me and I'll be happy to send you the website!

God Bless,
C

PS.. great questions!

 

[ChiRho]

As a Mennonite

The only person who can be baptized is a beleiver, one who has accepted Y'shua as Savior and Lord. Themselves not by the authority of parents or God parents but they themselves.

The baptism is the sharing of the death and resurection of Jesus. A drawing closer to him in a loving way. A way of saying SEAL ME LORD! Place your seal on me.

Actually Baptisim is an older Jewish rite which is called the mikvah
that is why we go to a body of water to be imerssed. A cleansing ritually.

I would accept the baptism of any beleiver I don't care who dunked you
so long as you asked to be baptized then you are baptized. The authority is Christ not the pastor or the elder or anyone.

And I too have done a prison baptism

No Tank
well if the prisinor wants baptisim
a cup of water will have to do

He is sealed


Blessings

the ever dunking
Pastor George

A Mennonite...on a computer? Is that allowed?

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

 

[ChiRho]

jenptcfan

Baptism has nothing to do with salvation.

1 Peter 3

18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom[4] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[5] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.


Romans 6


Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ

1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.


How does a Baptist, with a view of Holy Baptism such as yours, reconcile these verses?

That doesn't mean that your mom isn't a great saved Christian. It's just that we believe that we are to follow Jesus' example and be baptized by immersion as adults (or children above the age of accountability).

What age is that? Where can I find that in Holy Scripture (for further reference)?

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

 

[kayanne]

Then, I will not be fully immersed as there is no saving power in it.

I have been baptized of the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus. My baptism of the Holy Spirit is valid. There is no need for getting wet.

Right, Frankie?

I'm not frankie, but I'll jump in. I think that all Baptists would agree that there is no saving power in being immersed. When you say "there is no need for getting wet," that is true, in that it is not *needed* for salvation.
Baptism should, however, be *desired*. I don't *need* to attend church, treat others kindly, tell others about Jesus, put others' needs ahead of my own, etc. But as a Christian, I certainly should have the *desire* to do those things!! And I should have a desire to be baptized. If a person doesn't want to be baptized, and he is genuinely saved, he probably doesn't have a clear understanding of what the Bible says about baptism. I can't imagine being saved, yet outright refusing to take this step of obedience.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

1 Peter 3

18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom[4] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[5] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.





ChiRho

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 ¶The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.


Pasted below is out of a commentarty. I think it makes some very good point about the ark being the thing that "saved" Noah. I have not had the time to really study these verses but I thought I would post this up while I am studing.


God takes exact notice of the means and advantages people in all ages have had. As to the old world, Christ sent his Spirit; gave warning by Noah. But though the patience of God waits long, it will cease at last. And the spirits of disobedient sinners, as soon as they are out of their bodies, are committed to the prison of hell, where those that despised Noah's warning now are, and from whence there is no redemption. Noah's salvation in the ark upon the water, which carried him above the floods, set forth the salvation of all true believers. That temporal salvation by the ark was a type of the eternal salvation of believers by baptism of the Holy Spirit. To prevent mistakes, the apostle declares what he means by saving baptism; not the outward ceremony of washing with water, which, in itself, does no more than put away the filth of the flesh, but that baptism, of which the baptismal water formed the sign. Not the outward ordinance, but when a man, by the regeneration of the Spirit, was enabled to repent and profess faith, and purpose a new life, uprightly, and as in the presence of God. Let us beware that we rest not upon outward forms. Let us learn to look on the ordinances of God spiritually, and to inquire after the spiritual effect and working of them on our consciences. We would willingly have all religion reduced to outward things. But many who were baptized, and constantly attended the ordinances, have remained without Christ, died in their sins, and are now past recovery. Rest not then till thou art cleansed by the Spirit of Christ and the blood of Christ. His resurrection from the dead is that whereby we are assured of purifying and peace.

GEL

 

[GreenEyedLady]

I'm not frankie, but I'll jump in. I think that all Baptists would agree that there is no saving power in being immersed. When you say "there is no need for getting wet," that is true, in that it is not *needed* for salvation.
Baptism should, however, be *desired*. I don't *need* to attend church, treat others kindly, tell others about Jesus, put others' needs ahead of my own, etc. But as a Christian, I certainly should have the *desire* to do those things!! And I should have a desire to be baptized. If a person doesn't want to be baptized, and he is genuinely saved, he probably doesn't have a clear understanding of what the Bible says about baptism. I can't imagine being saved, yet outright refusing to take this step of obedience.

i think you made a really good point here my sister~!
I also would like to say that we should desire baptism as we should desire communion with the Lord. Communion does not save you, but its an order that Christ gave us to follow.
GEL

 

[Frankie]

Then, I will not be fully immersed as there is no saving power in it.

I have been baptized of the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus. My baptism of the Holy Spirit is valid. There is no need for getting wet.

Right, Frankie?

As far as salvation, no, there isn't. However, when we have been indwelled by the Holy Spirit, we are made new creatures in Christ and we desire to do His will. Jesus wills for us to proclaim Him as Lord of our lives and true savior. When we are water baptised, we are showing the world that we accept Jesus, that we love Him and Have chosen Him as Lord. We are also showing God our willingness to follow Him. I think that water baptism is a beautiful experience and one that all believers should partake in.

Frankie

 

[jenptcfan]

1 Peter 3

18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom[4] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[5] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.


Romans 6


Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ

1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.


How does a Baptist, with a view of Holy Baptism such as yours, reconcile these verses?




What age is that? Where can I find that in Holy Scripture (for further reference)?

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

The first set of verses has already been explained by another poster. Not everytime the word "baptism" is used means water baptism. See the comments about baptism of the holy spirit.

The second set of verses is about being dead to sin (or dying to self)--baptism is a symbol of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. Those verses explain that. Through Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection, we are saved (through our faith in these things). Someone else might be able to explain it more clearly though.

If we could merely be saved by being dunked under water (or sprinkled or whatever the case may be), then there would have been no reason for God to send Jesus to die on the cross. Jesus' death on the cross for our sins is what allows for our salvation. Water baptism is a work that a man does. It is something that we can cause to happen for ourselves, and therefore there is no special 'saving magic' in it. Just like doing good deeds, going to church every Sunday, memorizing scripture are all GOOD things (no doubt about that!)...but they're still just works which have no saving power according to our interpretation of scripture.


Ephesians 2
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Again, our belief in Jesus is what saves us...

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 14
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Then there's the story of the thief on the cross who declared his belief in Jesus as he was dying and Jesus said this (without a baptism):

Luke 23

42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[1] "
43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."


Age of accountability is not a certain age. It's just the point in time when a young person can understand the scriptures and decide whether or not they believe them for themselves.

I'm pretty sure this forum isn't intended to be a debate forum. Obviously different denominations have different ideas about how to interpret scripture, and I'm cool with that so long as people are earnestly seeking to interpret it as a means to know more about God and the things He values. I think that what God wants from us is faith in Him through his son, Jesus, and an honest desire to know Him and do things that are pleasing to Him.

Whether you are baptized as an infant or as an adult, or even if you're not baptized at all...if you understand what Jesus has done for you, you accept his gift of salvation, and you love him, you're my brother or sister.

That said, I'm not interested in debating this b/c I don't think there's any point in it.

 

[eldermike]

As far as salvation, no, there isn't. However, when we have been indwelled by the Holy Spirit, we are made new creatures in Christ and we desire to do His will. Jesus wills for us to proclaim Him as Lord of our lives and true savior. When we are water baptised, we are showing the world that we accept Jesus, that we love Him and Have chosen Him as Lord. We are also showing God our willingness to follow Him. I think that water baptism is a beautiful experience and one that all believers should partake in.

This is very good!

 

[sobresaliente]

KennySe,

NO your baptism would not be valid. First off, there are so many doctrinal differences in the Roman Church and Baptist Churches many baptists, like myself, would require an outward sign of agreement. Being Baptised by immersion in a Baptist Church with other members present means 'I believe what you believe'. Much like how the RCC views taking communion and partaking of the eucharist in their churches.

18

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

22

Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.


1 Peter 3:18-22

Baptism does NOT save, this is one of the major doctrinal differences between Roman and Baptist churches. This is all a result of a misinterpretation by the Roman Church, I know that it is believed by RC's that their church is 'infallible', but this is a different issue.

The answer is in the parentheses "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God". The 'filth of the flesh' is sin, baptism does not cleanse us from sin! Baptism is a public profession of faith that puts us in 'good conscience toward God'. We are saved 'by the ressurection of Jesus Christ' just like the verse says. This is what baptism by immersion simbolyzes death of the old, abominable sinful self and the ressurection of the new creature that is made through God's grace as a direct result of unfailing faith in the promises, death, and ressurection of our Lord Jesus Christ. We are saved by grace through faith!

Now that is taken care of, nothing else will be said on this. It is the truth of God's Word and if you will not accept it that is your choice.

As for whether or not babies who die go to heaven, I do not know, and frankly it does not matter. Whether or not babies get to heaven is trivial compared to knowing whether or not we ourselves know we are going to heaven and learn to preach the gospel to others.

Sobresaliente

 

[KennySe]

KennySe,

NO your baptism would not be valid. First off, there are so many doctrinal differences in the Roman Church and Baptist Churches many baptists, like myself, would require an outward sign of agreement. Being Baptised by immersion in a Baptist Church with other members present means 'I believe what you believe'. Much like how the RCC views taking communion and partaking of the eucharist in their churches.

Thank you for your direct answer to my question.

As for whether or not babies who die go to heaven, I do not know, and frankly it does not matter. Whether or not babies get to heaven is trivial compared to knowing whether or not we ourselves know we are going to heaven and learn to preach the gospel to others.

That seems a bit harsh: your saying that "it does not matter" if babies who die go to heaven or not, and your saying "Whether or not babies get to heaven is trivial."

I think it does matter TO THEM. I think it is not trivial to God.

We Catholics entrust dead babies to the mercy of God.

 

[CMmom]

We Catholics entrust dead babies to the mercy of God

Baptists and other churches who immerse (mine) entrust babies to the mercy of God also. That is why they don't sprinkle water on them--there is no need to!

 

[P_G]

A Mennonite...on a computer? Is that allowed?

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

Yes'm absolutely. I think you may be confusing Mennonites with
Amish. Which I notice are also welcome on this board. Mind you we will
have to find one with a kerosene fired computer before they post.

Question for Kenny Se or any of the folks from OBOB I hear that some RCC churches are going for full imersion baptism. Espescially as adults. (At least so says my dad who is doing some baptisms that way)

Is this a localized Arkansas thing or are you hearing / seeing this also?


Blessings

Pastor George

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Baptists and other churches who immerse (mine) entrust babies to the mercy of God also. That is why they don't sprinkle water on them--there is no need to!

I am sorry, but you are incorrect on this statement. Baptist do not entrust the mercy of God on infants. Baptist trust what the bible says, Babies get instant heaven, just like David son did in the book of Samuel. That is why we do not baptize infants.

It is more than trivial to me about my daughter. I KNOW she is in heaven, the bible says so! Babies in heaven is not a trivial matter whatsoever. Its alot more important than you think.

GEL

 

[Cary.Melvin]

I am sorry, but you are incorrect on this statement. Baptist do not entrust the mercy of God on infants. Baptist trust what the bible says, Babies get instant heaven, just like David son did in the book of Samuel. That is why we do not baptize infants.

Can you be more specific about that quote in the Book of Samuel and David's son?

 

[Frankie]

I am sorry, but you are incorrect on this statement. Baptist do not entrust the mercy of God on infants. Baptist trust what the bible says, Babies get instant heaven, just like David son did in the book of Samuel. That is why we do not baptize infants.

It is more than trivial to me about my daughter. I KNOW she is in heaven, the bible says so! Babies in heaven is not a trivial matter whatsoever. Its alot more important than you think.

GEL

Hi Gel, I may be incorrect but I think that is what she is saying. If I understand her correctly, she is saying that by "mercy of God", that means that babies who pass on, are covered under the grace of Jesus and automatically go to heaven.

Frankie