Question about Islamic Belief

Muslim

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2004
1,271
26
✟1,547.00
Faith
Muslim
Green Man said:
You're saying it's not possible for the ultimate deceiver to influence the Qur'an in this way?Isn't that exactly what he would want people to think?

I never said Muhammad was God.My point in asking the question was to emphasize the fact he was a man,therefore subject to being deceived.

According to Islam it is impossible for the prophet Muhammad to be influenced by Satan. He is a man but unlike other men God has created him without any evil inclinations. He is beyond temptation and Satan cannot infiltrate his mind. In fact, it pains Satan to get near him.
 
Upvote 0

Green Man

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2005
1,097
26
67
Greensboro,NC
✟1,398.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Muslim said:
Unlike Christians, Muslims don't believe that Satan can oppose God. God allowed him to live until the day of judgement as a test for human beings. God gave Satan the power to only whisper suggestions into peoples minds but he can't force anyone to do something. Muslims believe that every human being has 2 angels and one devil accompanying them throughout their entire lives. The angels suggest them to do good while the devil gives them evil suggestions. It is up to the person to follow either the good or the evil suggestions. Prophets on the other hand are born with 2 angels and one devil who suggests them to do good. It is impossible for Satan to infiltrate the mind of a prophet, and influence his words. And when it comes to the Quran, there is no way Satan could have influenced it. The prophet Muhammad used to recite the verses of the Quran instantly as they were revealed and his companions would write them down and memorize them. Several times a day they would recite them during their prayers and during the month of Ramadan the entire Quran was recited during prayers by the Muslims. And atleast once a year the angel Gabriel would come to the prophet Muhammad and make sure that he was arranging the verses of the Quran in perfect order so that there were no mistakes. When the prophet Muhammad died, there were hundreds of his companions who had memorized the entire Quran and thousands who had memorized a few chapters. So as you can see, the process in which the Quran was revealed and preserved left no area for Satan to infiltrate. Muslims believe that Allah made it his personal duty to guard the Quran from corruption until the day of judgement.


How convenient.Every other holy scripture on the planet is contaminated,but the Qur'an is not because why?Because it says so.This is one thing muslims and christians share in abundence,the notion that they are the only people on Earth with the inside track to "salvation".And if you don't listen to them,then you're doomed.
 
Upvote 0

Muslim

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2004
1,271
26
✟1,547.00
Faith
Muslim
Green Man said:
How convenient.Every other holy scripture on the planet is contaminated,but the Qur'an is not because why?Because it says so.This is one thing muslims and christians share in abundence,the notion that they are the only people on Earth with the inside track to "salvation".And if you don't listen to them,then you're doomed.

Not just because it says so. I've already explained the rigourous process that the early Muslims went through to preserve the Quran. There is a copy of the Quran which belonged to Uthman, a great companion of the prophet Muhammad and the 3rd ruler of Islam. His copy and copies of the Quran which have been created since then till now are identical. Also Islam doesn't teach that everyone else is doomed if they dont follow Islam. Only the ones who know it's the truth but still deny it. They are the Kuffar.
 
Upvote 0

Green Man

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2005
1,097
26
67
Greensboro,NC
✟1,398.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Muslim said:
Not just because it says so. I've already explained the rigourous process that the early Muslims went through to preserve the Quran. There is a copy of the Quran which belonged to Uthman, a great companion of the prophet Muhammad and the 3rd ruler of Islam. His copy and copies of the Quran which have been created since then till now are identical. Also Islam doesn't teach that everyone else is doomed if they dont follow Islam. Only the ones who know it's the truth but still deny it. They are the Kuffar.


Being preservrd in its original condition is not an indicator of divine origin.
 
Upvote 0

Ram

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2005
1,360
26
50
✟9,161.00
Faith
Hindu
Muslim said:
Not just because it says so. I've already explained the rigourous process that the early Muslims went through to preserve the Quran. There is a copy of the Quran which belonged to Uthman, a great companion of the prophet Muhammad and the 3rd ruler of Islam. His copy and copies of the Quran which have been created since then till now are identical. Also Islam doesn't teach that everyone else is doomed if they dont follow Islam. Only the ones who know it's the truth but still deny it. They are the Kuffar.

How can somebody know Islam is the truth and still deny it? Isn't there a contradiction?

We DENY because we dont beleive in it as the truth. So no one can be a Kuffar as you say.
 
Upvote 0

Muslim

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2004
1,271
26
✟1,547.00
Faith
Muslim
Ram said:
How can somebody know Islam is the truth and still deny it? Isn't there a contradiction?

We DENY because we dont beleive in it as the truth. So no one can be a Kuffar as you say.

Maybe you don't believe it's the truth. But there are some people who know inside their hearts that it is the truth, but they do not follow the teachings of Islam. They realize the truth of Islam but do not act on it for worldly reasons. For instance there is a Christian priest who believes that Islam is the correct religion but doesn't want to convert because he will lose his job in the Church.
 
Upvote 0

tdcharles

Ora et labora
Feb 18, 2005
956
43
39
Arizona
✟1,350.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Muslim said:
Maybe you don't believe it's the truth. But there are some people who know inside their hearts that it is the truth, but they do not act on it. There are many people who realize the truth of Islam but do not act on it for worldly reasons. For instance there is a Christian priest who believes that Islam is the correct religion but doesn't want to convert because he will lose his job in the Church.
No one in good conscinece could believe Islam is the true religion while remaining a priest. The person who does is truly evil, because they are betraying dozens, perhaps hundreds of lay people in the absolute worst possible way. If they do exist, IMO they are the worst of the worst human beings that could exist, and their heart is too hardened for ANY kind of religion. There are things too sacred to simply lie about....
 
Upvote 0

Muslim

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2004
1,271
26
✟1,547.00
Faith
Muslim
tdcharles said:
No one in good conscinece could believe Islam is the true religion while remaining a priest. The person who does is truly evil, because they are betraying dozens, perhaps hundreds of lay people in the absolute worst possible way. If they do exist, IMO they are the worst of the worst human beings that could exist, and their heart is too hardened for ANY kind of religion. There are things too sacred to simply lie about....

I agree. People like that are Kuffar(Unbelievers) and will go to hell if they dont' change their ways.
 
Upvote 0
M

markie4u2001

Guest
Muslim said:
According to Islam it is impossible for the prophet Muhammad to be influenced by Satan. He is a man but unlike other men God has created him without any evil inclinations. He is beyond temptation and Satan cannot infiltrate his mind. In fact, it pains Satan to get near him.
Why should we believe mohamed was a nice guy and a prophet when the history books tell us differant? There's the islamic history of mohamed and then there the other history of him. Of course the muslims are going to protect him, he's their profit. http://www.faithfreedom.org/Article..._not_muslim.htm
Are the ex muslims lying just to get back at islam?
A review of Ibn Warraq's book




In Why I Am Not A Muslim, Ibn Warraq, exposes the bitter truth about Islam without sugarcoating it. He is learned and his book is well documented. He lashes out at the western intellectuals who instead of condemning the assassination order of a savage man like Khomeini against Salman Rushdie, chose to criticize Rushdie for his book The Satanic Verses because it was not “politically correct”. Warraq talks about the brutal treatments of all those who fell under the domination of Islam, from the time of Muhammad to the present days. He talks about the minorities, philosophers, women and slaves in Islam. Jews were massacred and exiled by Muhammad in Medina and Kheibar; their belongings were distributed among the “believers”, their women and children taken as slaves. This heinous act of barbarism was repeated time and again throughout history with Christians, Zoroastrians, Hindus, and in recent years with Ahmedies, Baha’is and other minorities in Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, India, Syria and everywhere Islam reined.

Warraq talks about the origin of Islam, its pagan background and the influence of Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism on Muhammad. He talks about the origin of Allah in Arab culture, about the early days of Muhammad as a preacher and his rivalry with another storyteller “Al Nadir” and his revenge against him. Warraq traces back the origin of many Islamic rituals to Arab superstitions and Muhammad’s strange belief in jinns, demons and other shadowy beings. He also describes how Muhammad rehashed the biblical nonsense about creation, Noah’s Ark, birth of Christ etc. while misunderstanding a lot of it, like confusing Mary the mother of Christ with Miriam sister of Aaron, or the Christian belief in Trinity. You will learn about Muhammad’s bizarre view of cosmology, science, history, and medicine. (He prescribed drinking the urine of camel as a remedy against stomachache!).

Then you will learn about Muhammad’s metamorphosis from preacher to despot. How his call for tolerance, when he was still in Mecca and weak changed to the cry of killing and looting when he became powerful in Medina. You will learn how Muhammad encouraged his handful of followers to attack the caravans, kill the men, rape the women and bring the booty (20% for himself) to please Allah, while assuring them that if they are killed their rewards will be “young boys”, rivers of wine, and many hurries in the other world. All what Warraq says is backed by Quran and Ahadith.

The reader becomes familiar with Muhammad’s favorite way of eliminating his opponents, namely assassination. Asma Bint Marwan a poetess who wrote against the prophet was assassinated by his order in the middle of the night while nursing her infant. Her five small children where forced to convert to Islam. Muhammad’s hit list also included Ka’b Ibn al-Ashraf and Abu Rafi who spoke against him and had to be taken out traitorously. This policy was adopted by Muslims throughout the history and is being practiced up to this day. What we call terrorism, to a Muslim is Jihad (holly war). The much-publicized fetwa against Rushdi is an example. Among other things we learn about Muhammad’s preference for young girls (Ayesha was 9 years old when he consummated his “marriage” with her) rather at an advanced age and how he is unabashed to make Allah reveal Quranic verses to justify his lust for women and his sexual appetite.

Warraq makes a thorough study of the totalitarian nature of Islam. He even goes as far as to compare the impact of monotheism on human rights versus polytheism and atheism. For all those who still wonder why Muslims hate so much the west I recommend reading this book. There is a whole chapter dedicated to this subject.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Muslim

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2004
1,271
26
✟1,547.00
Faith
Muslim
markie4u2001 said:
Why should we believe mohamed was a nice guy and a prophet when the history books tell us differant? There's the islamic history of mohamed and then there the other history of him. Of course the muslims are going to protect him, he's their profit. http://www.faithfreedom.org/Article..._not_muslim.htm
Are the ex muslims lying just to get back at islam?
A review of Ibn Warraq's book




In Why I Am Not A Muslim, Ibn Warraq, exposes the bitter truth about Islam without sugarcoating it. He is learned and his book is well documented. He lashes out at the western intellectuals who instead of condemning the assassination order of a savage man like Khomeini against Salman Rushdie, chose to criticize Rushdie for his book The Satanic Verses because it was not “politically correct”. Warraq talks about the brutal treatments of all those who fell under the domination of Islam, from the time of Muhammad to the present days. He talks about the minorities, philosophers, women and slaves in Islam. Jews were massacred and exiled by Muhammad in Medina and Kheibar; their belongings were distributed among the “believers”, their women and children taken as slaves. This heinous act of barbarism was repeated time and again throughout history with Christians, Zoroastrians, Hindus, and in recent years with Ahmedies, Baha’is and other minorities in Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, India, Syria and everywhere Islam reined.

Warraq talks about the origin of Islam, its pagan background and the influence of Judaism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism on Muhammad. He talks about the origin of Allah in Arab culture, about the early days of Muhammad as a preacher and his rivalry with another storyteller “Al Nadir” and his revenge against him. Warraq traces back the origin of many Islamic rituals to Arab superstitions and Muhammad’s strange belief in jinns, demons and other shadowy beings. He also describes how Muhammad rehashed the biblical nonsense about creation, Noah’s Ark, birth of Christ etc. while misunderstanding a lot of it, like confusing Mary the mother of Christ with Miriam sister of Aaron, or the Christian belief in Trinity. You will learn about Muhammad’s bizarre view of cosmology, science, history, and medicine. (He prescribed drinking the urine of camel as a remedy against stomachache!).

Then you will learn about Muhammad’s metamorphosis from preacher to despot. How his call for tolerance, when he was still in Mecca and weak changed to the cry of killing and looting when he became powerful in Medina. You will learn how Muhammad encouraged his handful of followers to attack the caravans, kill the men, rape the women and bring the booty (20% for himself) to please Allah, while assuring them that if they are killed their rewards will be “young boys”, rivers of wine, and many hurries in the other world. All what Warraq says is backed by Quran and Ahadith.

The reader becomes familiar with Muhammad’s favorite way of eliminating his opponents, namely assassination. Asma Bint Marwan a poetess who wrote against the prophet was assassinated by his order in the middle of the night while nursing her infant. Her five small children where forced to convert to Islam. Muhammad’s hit list also included Ka’b Ibn al-Ashraf and Abu Rafi who spoke against him and had to be taken out traitorously. This policy was adopted by Muslims throughout the history and is being practiced up to this day. What we call terrorism, to a Muslim is Jihad (holly war). The much-publicized fetwa against Rushdi is an example. Among other things we learn about Muhammad’s preference for young girls (Ayesha was 9 years old when he consummated his “marriage” with her) rather at an advanced age and how he is unabashed to make Allah reveal Quranic verses to justify his lust for women and his sexual appetite.

Warraq makes a thorough study of the totalitarian nature of Islam. He even goes as far as to compare the impact of monotheism on human rights versus polytheism and atheism. For all those who still wonder why Muslims hate so much the west I recommend reading this book. There is a whole chapter dedicated to this subject.

All Warraq and you did was state lies and twist facts around to try and reflect Islam in a negative light. It doesn't matter how much someone studies Islam, unless they approach Islam without their personal viewpoints or beliefs getting in the way then they will never understand Islam completely. There were men during the prophet Muhammad's lifetime who left Islam and made similar statements. These people are described in the Quran as hypocrites because they never had faith to begin with. They were just following the prophet Muhammad because they didn't want to stand out from the crowd but their true nature eventually surfaced.
 
Upvote 0

peaceful soul

Senior Veteran
Sep 4, 2003
5,986
184
✟7,592.00
Faith
Non-Denom
originally posted by Muslim

All Warraq and you did was state lies and twist facts around to try and reflect Islam in a negative light.

That is your opinion. It may have some merits, but let us not think that He does not present some good points that are factual. It very easy to just dismiss the whole thing because it is not your view or supports your religion. I try my best to listen and to evaluate even if I do not totally believe everything the person says. Sometimes I find that the accepted beliefs have some flaws in them and the dissenter may bring those things out in full view.

It doesn't matter how much someone studies Islam, unless they approach Islam without their personal viewpoints or beliefs getting in the way then they will never understand Islam completely.

That is funny that you mentioned this. Is not that the way that you study the Bible, for example. If I did not know better, I would have to call you a hypocrite. It is no wonder why you do not understand the Bible in its context. You use Islamic scholars to do your work for you. You only rehash what they misunderstand about my scriptures. I am not saying that only Christians can understand the Bible, but it takes an act of the Holy Spirit to fully comprehend it. You can get a surface understanding, but not a spiritual understanding.

There were men during the prophet Muhammad's lifetime who left Islam and made similar statements. These people are described in the Quran as hypocrites because they never had faith to begin with.

Funny. That sounds like what we try to tell you when you use liberal Christians who do not believe that Jesus was a real person or that He was crucified. We sometimes make similar statements when ex-Christians become Muslims.

They were just following the prophet Muhammad because they didn't want to stand out from the crowd but their true nature eventually surfaced.

On the opposite of the spectrum, that is what we refer to psuedo Christians. Is everything that apostates say altogether wrong? That is a question that you should think deeply about. As much as you try to glorify Islam, it is not as perfect as you would like us to believe. I am not so naive that I can't see that and be weary of your unconditonal support of it without criticism. At some point, you need to be realistic.

I am not trying to change the topic, but saw it quite telling on your protest of others.
 
Upvote 0

peaceful soul

Senior Veteran
Sep 4, 2003
5,986
184
✟7,592.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Islam_mulia said:
I believe what is truth and what are lies in Ibn Warraq book can be answered if Muslims do a proper research and study on the Quran and hadith. What I find surprising is Christians support of anything anti-islam, especially from an apostate who uses a pseudonym.

You are being very dishoest in your assesment. I will let you figure out why. I think you should distinguish between anti-Islamic and non-Islamic materials. It would do you a world of good.

He probably uses a pseudo name because of fear of his life and wellbeing of him and his family.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kris_J
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Green Man

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2005
1,097
26
67
Greensboro,NC
✟1,398.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Muslim said:
I was showing you that it hasn't been changed. Now your changing your argument to if it's divine origin or not.

There are innumerable books and manuscripts much older than the Qur'an that remain unchanged to this day.As a matter of fact,the Vatican has quite an extensive collection of such books.
 
Upvote 0
M

markie4u2001

Guest
Muslim said:
All Warraq and you did was state lies and twist facts around to try and reflect Islam in a negative light. It doesn't matter how much someone studies Islam, unless they approach Islam without their personal viewpoints or beliefs getting in the way then they will never understand Islam completely. There were men during the prophet Muhammad's lifetime who left Islam and made similar statements. These people are described in the Quran as hypocrites because they never had faith to begin with. They were just following the prophet Muhammad because they didn't want to stand out from the crowd but their true nature eventually surfaced.
In otther words they can study islam all their life but unless they agree wwith it they don't know what they don't understand it.
 
Upvote 0
M

markie4u2001

Guest
I didn't say i supported them, i asked if we should just disregard them and take your word for it, and if so why? I don't think that was a christian site, it wasn't very freindly to christianity in my oppinion. I have been to jewish and hindu sites and they give a similar oppinion. If i get it fromm a christian site you ssay it'ss anti islamic so i go somewhere else and it says something bad about mohammed so that's an anti islamic sitee too.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Islam_mulia

Senior Veteran
Jan 17, 2005
4,445
63
✟6,323.00
Faith
Muslim
So, markie4u2001 as usual cut-and-paste anti-Islam materials, and asks Muslims if we 'should disregard them'? If markie is honest enough to show the bad points of Islam and Muslims, then he should be honest enough to take my challenge and let Muslims answer his claims or the claims of the posts he cuts and paste.

islam_mulia
 
Upvote 0