Question about communion?

[~Anastasia~]

I'm hoping to get some help here.

I started in a Baptist church, and am very familiar with the forms for communion. My husband comes from a non-denominational church which is basically aligned most closely with Reformed Baptist, is what he has told me.

Without going into it too deeply, I believe my understand of communion is actually not the same as my husband's. I have not been able to understand exactly what he is getting at, so I wonder if I might get some understanding by asking here?

I'm not sure, btw, if his beliefs are exactly Baptist on this either, but it's the best guess I've got.

First, do you think people can have communion on their own at home, just a family, for example, or even alone?

Second - I know it is to be symbolic of the body and blood of Christ, done in remembrance of Him, and as an act of obedience, correct? Do you give any deeper meaning to it than that? If you don't receive communion, are you missing something important? When you take communion, do you receive any particular benefit from it?

That is the part I am trying to understand. My husband quoted Christ saying to the crowd before they departed that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood, or else there is no life in them. Does that fit into your beliefs about communion at all? If so, it seems you must get some benefit from doing it? Or is it just obedience (which makes no real sense to me, as it would be works-salvation in that case)?

Forgive me for the way in which I ask if it is offensive to anyone in any way - I don't mean to be. I took communion at Baptist churches but I suppose it was never fully explained, and I have my interpretation of the Bible layered over that, which has made my beliefs different as well.

BTW, would it bother you if the bread/wafers were dropped on the floor and stepped on? Does that seem disrespectful, or do you think that places too much importance on it?

Again, forgive me, I'm only trying to understand how things are viewed in different churches, so I hope no one is offended by the questions.

Thanks for any help in understanding. I am trying to discuss a wide range of theological things with my husband and figure out where we are on the same page and where we are not - we are trying to find a church. Thank you.

 

[Bluelion]

I'm hoping to get some help here.

I started in a Baptist church, and am very familiar with the forms for communion. My husband comes from a non-denominational church which is basically aligned most closely with Reformed Baptist, is what he has told me.

Without going into it too deeply, I believe my understand of communion is actually not the same as my husband's. I have not been able to understand exactly what he is getting at, so I wonder if I might get some understanding by asking here?

I'm not sure, btw, if his beliefs are exactly Baptist on this either, but it's the best guess I've got.

First, do you think people can have communion on their own at home, just a family, for example, or even alone?

Second - I know it is to be symbolic of the body and blood of Christ, done in remembrance of Him, and as an act of obedience, correct? Do you give any deeper meaning to it than that? If you don't receive communion, are you missing something important? When you take communion, do you receive any particular benefit from it?

That is the part I am trying to understand. My husband quoted Christ saying to the crowd before they departed that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood, or else there is no life in them. Does that fit into your beliefs about communion at all? If so, it seems you must get some benefit from doing it? Or is it just obedience (which makes no real sense to me, as it would be works-salvation in that case)?

Forgive me for the way in which I ask if it is offensive to anyone in any way - I don't mean to be. I took communion at Baptist churches but I suppose it was never fully explained, and I have my interpretation of the Bible layered over that, which has made my beliefs different as well.

BTW, would it bother you if the bread/wafers were dropped on the floor and stepped on? Does that seem disrespectful, or do you think that places too much importance on it?

Again, forgive me, I'm only trying to understand how things are viewed in different churches, so I hope no one is offended by the questions.

Thanks for any help in understanding. I am trying to discuss a wide range of theological things with my husband and figure out where we are on the same page and where we are not - we are trying to find a church. Thank you.

1. Yes people can do it at home, any where any time they want to remember Christ. I use to do it a couple times a week at home. I used grape juice and crackers.

2. It is symbolic of taking Christ into your body and being part of The Body of Christ. It is a blessing and a curse. It is a blessing to those who are saved and they take part in The Fathers Kingdom. It is a curse to anyone not saved and they take part in His wrath. It is important to ask for forgiveness and pray before you take it to be as clean inside as you possibly can before taking it. The reason is with judas satan entered him when he ate from the bread Christ had handed him. It is very bad to not be saved and partake, satan can enter a person unsaved this way. It does have benefits you are partaking of The Kingdom and blessing of God. It is a Holy act and I always feel cleaned inside and feel God strong in me after taking of it.

Yes it would bother me if the bread was dropped on the floor and stepped on. It shows a complete lack of respect for Christ.

That is my limited knowledge on the matter, maybe some one else can give you further insight.

 

[Keachian]

As someone who is Reformed Baptist (we have a different understanding to General Baptists) here's the relevant part of our confession;

28 Baptism and the Lord’s Supper

1. Baptism and the Lord’s Supper are ordinances of positive and sovereign institution, appointed by the Lord Jesus, the only lawgiver, to be continued in His Church to the end of the world.
2. These holy appointments are to be administered only by those who are qualified and called to administer them, according to the commission of Christ.

30 The Lord's Supper

1. The Supper of the Lord Jesus was instituted by Him the same night on which He was betrayed to be observed in His churches until the end of the world for the perpetual remembrance, and showing forth of the sacrifice of Himself in His death. It was also instituted by Christ to confirm believers in all the benefits of His death; – for their spiritual nourishment and growth in Him; – for their further engagement in and commitment to all the duties which they owe to Him; – and to be a bond and pledge of their communion with Him and with their fellow believers.
2. In this ordinance Christ is not offered up to His Father, nor is there any real sacrifice made at all for remission of sin (of the living or the dead). There is only a memorial of that one offering up of Christ by Himself upon the cross once for all, the memorial being accompanied by a spiritual oblation of all possible praise to God for Calvary. Therefore, the popish sacrifice of the mass, as they call it, is most abominable, being injurious to Christ’s own sacrifice, which is the only propitiation for all the sins of the elect.
3. The Lord Jesus has, in this ordinance, appointed His ministers to pray and bless the elements of bread and wine (so setting them apart from a common to a holy use) and to take and break the bread, then to take the cup, and to give both to the communicants, also communicating themselves.
4. The denial of the cup to the people, the practices of worshipping the elements, lifting them up or carrying them about for adoration, or reserving them for any pretended religious use, are all contrary to the nature of this ordinance, and to the institution of Christ.
5. The outward elements in this ordinance which are correctly set apart and used as Christ ordained, so closely portray Him as crucified, that they are sometimes truly (but figuratively) referred to in terms of the things they represent, such as the body and blood of Christ. However in substance and nature they still remain truly and only bread and wine as they were before.
6. The doctrine commonly called transubstantiation, which maintains that a change occurs in the substance of the bread and wine into the substance of Christ’s body and blood, when consecrated by a priest or by any other way, is repugnant not only to Scripture but even to common sense and reason. It overthrows the nature of the ordinance, and both has been and is the cause of a host of superstitions and of gross idolatries.
7. Worthy receivers, outwardly taking the visible elements in this ordinance, also receive them inwardly and spiritually by faith, truly and in fact, but not carnally and corporally, and feed upon Christ crucified, and all the benefits of His death. The body and blood of Christ is not present corporally or carnally but it is spiritually present to the faith of believers in the ordinance, just as the elements are present to their outward senses.
8. All ignorant and ungodly persons who are unfit to enjoy communion with Christ are equally unworthy of the Lord’s Table, and therefore cannot without great sin against Him, take a share in these holy mysteries or be admitted to the Supper while they remain in that condition. Indeed those who receive (the elements) unworthily, are guilty of the body and blood of the Lord, eating and drinking judgement to themselves.

TL;DR:
1. No, it is an ordinance performed by the Elders for the building up of the Church as a whole.
2. Yes, we truly receive Christ Crucified in the ordinance, He and the Spirit communicate himself to us as we take part in the ordinance.

 

[~Anastasia~]

1. Yes people can do it at home, any where any time they want to remember Christ. I use to do it a couple times a week at home. I used grape juice and crackers.

Thank you. I am guessing this is different in different Baptist traditions maybe then? I know many protestants of many kinds who believe in having communion themselves outside of church, and also many who believe it must be done by someone ordained to prepare it. But your answer is helpful.

2. It is symbolic of taking Christ into your body and being part of The Body of Christ. It is a blessing and a curse. It is a blessing to those who are saved and they take part in The Fathers Kingdom. It is a curse to anyone not saved and they take part in His wrath. It is important to ask for forgiveness and pray before you take it to be as clean inside as you possibly can before taking it. The reason is with judas satan entered him when he ate from the bread Christ had handed him. It is very bad to not be saved and partake, satan can enter a person unsaved this way. It does have benefits you are partaking of The Kingdom and blessing of God. It is a Holy act and I always feel cleaned inside and feel God strong in me after taking of it.

Thank you. I have never heard what you said here about Judas, or any warning of anything like this. I have always been taught to search myself and be sure of forgiveness beforehand.

And while I don't see you saying that you see it as anything more than symbol, you do acknowledge that there are both good and bad spiritual results. Thank you so much for your explanation.That part is actually what I'm trying very hard to understand.

Yes it would bother me if the bread was dropped on the floor and stepped on. It shows a complete lack of respect for Christ.

Thank you. I've seen that done in churches (accidentally of course, but no one picked it up either), and it bothered me, and I have been chastised for being bothered.

That is my limited knowledge on the matter, maybe some one else can give you further insight.

Thank you for your reply. I welcome any further input, but you were helpful, thank you.

 

[~Anastasia~]

As someone who is Reformed Baptist (we have a different understanding to General Baptists) here's the relevant part of our confession;

28 Baptism and the Lord’s Supper

1. Baptism and the Lord’s Supper are ordinances of positive and sovereign institution, appointed by the Lord Jesus, the only lawgiver, to be continued in His Church to the end of the world.
2. These holy appointments are to be administered only by those who are qualified and called to administer them, according to the commission of Christ.

30 The Lord's Supper

1. The Supper of the Lord Jesus was instituted by Him the same night on which He was betrayed to be observed in His churches until the end of the world for the perpetual remembrance, and showing forth of the sacrifice of Himself in His death. It was also instituted by Christ to confirm believers in all the benefits of His death; – for their spiritual nourishment and growth in Him; – for their further engagement in and commitment to all the duties which they owe to Him; – and to be a bond and pledge of their communion with Him and with their fellow believers.
2. In this ordinance Christ is not offered up to His Father, nor is there any real sacrifice made at all for remission of sin (of the living or the dead). There is only a memorial of that one offering up of Christ by Himself upon the cross once for all, the memorial being accompanied by a spiritual oblation of all possible praise to God for Calvary. Therefore, the popish sacrifice of the mass, as they call it, is most abominable, being injurious to Christ’s own sacrifice, which is the only propitiation for all the sins of the elect.
3. The Lord Jesus has, in this ordinance, appointed His ministers to pray and bless the elements of bread and wine (so setting them apart from a common to a holy use) and to take and break the bread, then to take the cup, and to give both to the communicants, also communicating themselves.
4. The denial of the cup to the people, the practices of worshipping the elements, lifting them up or carrying them about for adoration, or reserving them for any pretended religious use, are all contrary to the nature of this ordinance, and to the institution of Christ.
5. The outward elements in this ordinance which are correctly set apart and used as Christ ordained, so closely portray Him as crucified, that they are sometimes truly (but figuratively) referred to in terms of the things they represent, such as the body and blood of Christ. However in substance and nature they still remain truly and only bread and wine as they were before.
6. The doctrine commonly called transubstantiation, which maintains that a change occurs in the substance of the bread and wine into the substance of Christ’s body and blood, when consecrated by a priest or by any other way, is repugnant not only to Scripture but even to common sense and reason. It overthrows the nature of the ordinance, and both has been and is the cause of a host of superstitions and of gross idolatries.
7. Worthy receivers, outwardly taking the visible elements in this ordinance, also receive them inwardly and spiritually by faith, truly and in fact, but not carnally and corporally, and feed upon Christ crucified, and all the benefits of His death. The body and blood of Christ is not present corporally or carnally but it is spiritually present to the faith of believers in the ordinance, just as the elements are present to their outward senses.
8. All ignorant and ungodly persons who are unfit to enjoy communion with Christ are equally unworthy of the Lord’s Table, and therefore cannot without great sin against Him, take a share in these holy mysteries or be admitted to the Supper while they remain in that condition. Indeed those who receive (the elements) unworthily, are guilty of the body and blood of the Lord, eating and drinking judgement to themselves.

TL;DR:
1. No, it is an ordinance performed by the Elders for the building up of the Church as a whole.
2. Yes, we truly receive Christ Crucified in the ordinance, He and the Spirit communicate himself to us as we take part in the ordinance.

Thank you very much.

Except now I'm a bit more confused, LOL. If I understand you correctly, much of what you say is in agreement with what I believe (the parts I was concerned with here), and yet I am not sure my husband is agreeing to them.

But it seems to me as if you are saying (please someone correct me if I am wrong) that Christ is spiritually present, in the elements as well, and believers can partake of Him crucified (though the bread and wine/juice remain bread and wine/juice).

I not not realized that was any Baptist position, though you did say reformed baptist is different from some others.

The rest was helpful as well, but those are the main parts I was interested in. Thank you so much for your post. I believe I will share it with him and see if the text can help us better communicate with each other. I have a hope that we are actually close in belief.

Thank you again.

 

[Keachian]

Thank you very much.

Except now I'm a bit more confused, LOL. If I understand you correctly, much of what you say is in agreement with what I believe (the parts I was concerned with here), and yet I am not sure my husband is agreeing to them.

I wouldn't expect non-denominationalists to be confessional, quite often the Calvinistic non-denominationalist will be Zwinglian in their sacramentology (with credobaptist modifications), Calvinistic in their soteriology, and solely adhere to Plurality of Elders for church governance, which looks like Calvinistic Baptist, but quite often isn't because the Baptist idea of Priesthood of all Believers means that more often than not we prefer a congregationalist polity. But yes, most Baptists are Zwinglian in their sacramentology.

But it seems to me as if you are saying (please someone correct me if I am wrong) that Christ is spiritually present, in the elements as well, and believers can partake of Him crucified (though the bread and wine/juice remain bread and wine/juice).

Yes that is what I am saying.

I not not realized that was any Baptist position, though you did say reformed baptist is different from some others.

I had not realised it was a viable Baptist position till earlier this year, even though I've held the confession from which it came as my personal one for about a year an a half.

The rest was helpful as well, but those are the main parts I was interested in. Thank you so much for your post. I believe I will share it with him and see if the text can help us better communicate with each other. I have a hope that we are actually close in belief.

Thank you again.

You're welcome

 

[Bluelion]

Thank you. I am guessing this is different in different Baptist traditions maybe then? I know many protestants of many kinds who believe in having communion themselves outside of church, and also many who believe it must be done by someone ordained to prepare it. But your answer is helpful.



Thank you. I have never heard what you said here about Judas, or any warning of anything like this. I have always been taught to search myself and be sure of forgiveness beforehand.

And while I don't see you saying that you see it as anything more than symbol, you do acknowledge that there are both good and bad spiritual results. Thank you so much for your explanation.That part is actually what I'm trying very hard to understand.



Thank you. I've seen that done in churches (accidentally of course, but no one picked it up either), and it bothered me, and I have been chastised for being bothered.



Thank you for your reply. I welcome any further input, but you were helpful, thank you.

Your very welcome.

The act is a spiritual act, so it has spiritual benefits and consequences.

 

[Bella Vita]

Taking communion is very serious one should not do it unless they are in repentance of sin. The Bible is clear that to take communion if you are not ready to get straight with god could end in your death. So it's really important to take the time to repent and pray for forgiveness and really get right with God before taking holy communion. Also my church only does it a few times a year Christmas, Easter, and a few other times through out the year. We believe that it keeps it special and keeps the true meaning. By doing it all the time it just becomes part of a churches routine communion should be set up with a full service not just something you add on at the end. People need to really understand communion before they take it so it should be preached on and explained before taking it.

This is how we do it communion is special it is very important it is not something to take lightly or just be thrown onto the end of a service as the regular every week routine.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Taking communion is very serious one should not do it unless they are in repentance of sin. The Bible is clear that to take communion if you are not ready to get straight with god could end in your death. So it's really important to take the time to repent and pray for forgiveness and really get right with God before taking holy communion. Also my church only does it a few times a year Christmas, Easter, and a few other times through out the year. We believe that it keeps it special and keeps the true meaning. By doing it all the time it just becomes part of a churches routine communion should be set up with a full service not just something you add on at the end. People need to really understand communion before they take it so it should be preached on and explained before taking it.

This is how we do it communion is special it is very important it is not something to take lightly or just be thrown onto the end of a service as the regular every week routine.

Thank you. I can see that you attach great significance to it, and that is good news to me. The teaching to be forgiven first was taught to me as well. My husband is a little torn between not doing it too often so as to keep it special, as you say, and wanting it more often. He was bothered when we first went to a church that offered it weekly. I was bothered at that church as well, but for a different reason. It was set up on the side of the auditorium, and people just went and took communion as they wanted. I want some words spoken, and prefer it be done as a body, since that is part of the intent, to me.

Thank you for explaining your point of view.

 

[alex2165]

All communions and all rituals whatever they may be have a certain symbolism behind them. They symbolize something on Earth or in Heaven.

So called “communion” you mentioned, I assume it is a Passover ritual and majority of the people in the church do not understand the meaning of it, and so their church leaders, pastors, and priests as well.

Even if they read every time Matthew 26.26-28, or Mark 14.22-23, or Luke 22.19-20, or any other related to this event verse, they usually do not give enough thought to it.

But the symbolism of this important ritual is very simple indeed. Jesus during His entire life on Earth, (approximately 33 years) completely fulfill the Law of Moses and obeyed all its statutes and commandments.

But to Passover He gave a special attention. Perhaps you know the story of Passover, if not, read the Book of Exodus, chapter 12.

So in this sense, Jesus during His “Last Supper” as it sometimes called, but actually it was His last Passover, the ritual according to the Law of Moses, and during this ritual He compared Himself to a sacrificial lamb of Passover when Hebrews performed before exodus from Egypt.

And at His last ritual of Passover Jesus compared His physical Body to a body of a slaughtered and eaten lamb of exodus, and His Blood He compared to a blood of that slaughtered lamb, and no wonder that in certain placed of the Bible Jesus was called as a Lamb of GOD.

And here is the symbolism of it. The body of Christ in general, in the case of Passover, represents the sacrificial Body which must be killed and sacrificed for the sake of those who want to be saved by it, just like the lamb of Passover during exodus from Egypt that was slaughtered, in order to save them from the wrath of GOD.

According to the Law of GOD (Law of Moses), death is the punishment for sin, and so, as Passover lamb of exodus that was put to death to save Hebrews, Jesus also gave His Body to death to save the whole humanity, for all generation and for all times to come.

Body of Jesus also symbolically compared and to other things, it was compared to bread, and to bread of life, means that just like we destroying the bread by eating it and it gives us life, and so the Body of Christ destroyed to give us the life. Jesus also said about Himself that He is the Living Bread from Heaven, perhaps comparing Himself to manna which was given to Hebrew from Heaven as food in the desert.

And Blood of Christ spilled on the cross washes away the sins of those who accepted His great Self-Sacrifice, and by this we become acceptable by GOD, forgiven, and saved.

Same thing have been done by the Passover lamb of the exodus, its blood was put on the doorpost of the house of Hebrews, in order that GOD will see its blood and Pass Over the houses of Hebrews without destroying them, and His wrath fell on those who did not mark their doorposts of their house with blood of the lamb, on the Egyptians.

And the Blood of Jesus Christ also had been compared to other things, such as the Blood of the Covenant, means the New Covenant that the Lord GOD established with the people of the world in order to save them.

Eating “His flesh” also sometimes explained like this, to live in flesh as Jesus lived in flesh, and to endure all of that what He endured.
And drinking “His Blood” sometimes interpreted as to consume His spiritual principals and ideals and to live by them, because in the blood remains the spirit of all living things, so in this case we have to be comparable with the Spirit of Jesus.

So symbolically, every one who accepted Sacrifice of Christ on the cross, such person put His Blood on the doorposts on his/her heart, so when GOD sees it, His wrath Passes Over such individual.
Mostly it happen when we pray to the Lord for forgiveness of our sins and iniquities, and by the Blood of Christ we are cleansed from them, and forgiven, and the wrath of GOD Passes Over us.

Rituals, no matter what they are, never saved any one, they are only rituals symbolizing certain things, they are like a pledge, like a promise, like an oath, but true salvation comes only from the repentance of the heart and from the GOD above

When Jesus said, “Do it in the memory of Me”, it means at any time and anywhere, no certain date or place been established.

Myself, I do it only at Passover time, date of which had been established by GOD His Father, in the first month of the year, on the 14th day of the month, which indicated in many modern calendars, but according to the Jewish calendar. This is the exact date when Jesus Himself performed it and upgraded into a special new ritual.

It must be performed as Jesus commanded, with wine and not with juice, and with unleavened bread. Body of bread symbolized the destruction of the Body of Christ. The wine symbolizes His Blood spilled for us on the cross to cleanse us from our sins.
Blood of Christ also have other symbolism, but I do not want go now to all those details.

Remember, that if this ritual is not performed right as it written in the Bible, it would do no good to anyone who performed it, and would be completely meaningless, just like any other ritual of the Bible that was performed not according to the Law and not from the heart.

Sorry for such long post, I hope I shed some light on this issue. If you have more questions do not hesitate to ask.

GOD bless you.

Alex.

 

[JM]

From An Orthodox (Baptist) Catechism edited in the 17th century:

Q. 66 What are sacraments?

A. Sacraments are holy signs and seals for us to see. They were instituted by God so that by our use of them he might make us understand more clearly the promise of the gospel, and might put his seal on that promise.1 And this is God’s gospel promise: to forgive our sins and give us eternal life by grace alone because of Christ’s one sacrifice finished on the cross.2

1Gen. 17:11; Deut. 30:6; Rom. 4:11
2Matt. 26:27-28; Acts 2:38; Heb. 10:10

Of the Lord’s Supper.

Lesson 29

Q. 80 How does the Lord’s Supper remind you and assure you that you share in Christ’s one sacrifice on the cross and in all his gifts?

A. In this way: Christ has commanded me and all believers to eat this broken bread and to drink this cup. With this command he gave this promise:1 First, as surely as I see with my eyes the bread of the Lord broken for me and the cup given to me, so surely his body was offered and broken for me and his blood poured out for me on the cross. Second, as surely as I receive from the hand of the one who serves, and taste with my mouth the bread and cup of the Lord, given me as sure signs of Christ’s body and blood, so surely he nourishes and refreshes my soul for eternal life with his crucified body and poured-out blood.



1Matt. 26:26-28; Mark 14:22-24; Luke 22:19-20; 1 Cor. 11:23-25



Q. 81 What does it mean to eat the crucified body of Christ and to drink his poured-out blood?

A. It means to accept with a believing heart the entire suffering and death of Christ and by believing to receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life.1 But it means more. Through the Holy Spirit, who lives both in Christ and in us, we are united more and more to Christ’s blessed body.2 And so, although he is in heaven3 and we are on earth, we are flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone.4 And we forever live on and are governed by one Spirit, as members of our body are by one soul.5



1John 6:35, 40, 50-54

2John 6:55-56; 1 Cor. 12:13

3Acts 1:9-11; 1 Cor. 11:26; Col. 3:1

41 Cor. 6:15-17; Eph. 5:29-30; 1 John 4:13

5John 6:56-58; 15:1-6; Eph. 4:15-16; 1 John 3:24



Q. 82 Where does Christ promise to nourish and refresh believers with his body and blood as surely as they eat this broken bread and drink this cup?

A. In the institution of the Lord’s Supper:

“The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, ‘This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.’ In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.’ For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.”1

This promise is repeated by Paul in these words:

“Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.”2

11 Cor. 11:23-26

21 Cor. 10:16-17

Lesson 30

Q. 83 Are the bread and wine changed into the real body and blood of Christ?

A. No. Just as the water of baptism is not changed into Christ’s blood and does not itself wash away sins but is simply God’s sign and assurance,1 so too the bread of the Lord’s Supper is not changed into the actual body of Christ2 even though it is called the body of Christ3 in keeping with the nature and language of sacraments.4



1Eph. 5:26; Tit. 3:5

2Matt. 26:26-29

31 Cor. 10:16-17; 11:26-28

4Gen. 17:10-11; Ex. 12:11, 13; 1 Cor. 10:1-4



Q. 84 Why then does Christ call the bread his body and the cup his blood, or the new covenant in his blood?

(Paul uses the words,a participation in Christ’s body and blood.)



A. Christ has good reason for these words. He wants to teach us that as bread and wine nourish our temporal life, so too his crucified body and poured-out blood truly nourish our souls for eternal life.1 But more important, he wants to assure us, by this visible sign and pledge, that we, through the Holy Spirit’s work, share in his true body and blood as surely as our mouths receive these holy signs in his remembrance,2 and that all of his suffering and obedience are as definitely ours as if we personally had suffered and paid for our sins.3



1John 6:51, 55

21 Cor. 10:16-17; 11:26

3Rom. 6:5-1

Lesson 31

Q. 85 How does the Lord’s Supper differ from the Roman Catholic Mass?

A. The Lord’s Supper declares to us that our sins have been completely forgiven through the one sacrifice of Jesus Christ which he himself finished on the cross once for all.1 It also declares to us that the Holy Spirit grafts us into Christ,2 who with his very body is now in heaven at the right hand of the Father3 where he wants us to worship him.4 But the Mass teaches that the living and the dead do not have their sins forgiven through the suffering of Christ unless Christ is still offered for them daily by the priests. It also teaches that Christ is bodily present in the form of bread and wine where Christ is therefore to be worshiped. Thus the Mass is basically nothing but a denial of the one sacrifice and suffering of Jesus Christ and a condemnable idolatry.



1John 19:30; Heb. 7:27; 9:12, 25-26; 10:10-18

21 Cor. 6:17; 10:16-17

3Acts 7:55-56; Heb. 1:3; 8:1

4Matt. 6:20-21; John 4:21-24; Phil. 3:20; Col. 3:1-3



Q. 86 Who are to come to the Lord’s table?

A. Those who are displeased with themselves because of their sins, but who nevertheless trust that their sins are pardoned and that their continuing weakness is covered by the suffering and death of Christ, and who also desire more and more to strengthen their faith and to lead a better life. Hypocrites and those who are unrepentant, however, eat and drink judgment on themselves.1



11 Cor. 10:19-22; 11:26-32



Q. 87 Are those to be admitted to the Lord’s Supper who show by what they say and do that they are unbelieving and ungodly?

A. No, that would dishonor God’s covenant and bring down God’s anger upon the entire congregation.1 Therefore, according to the instruction of Christ and his apostles, the Christian church is duty-bound to exclude such people, by the official use of the keys of the kingdom, until they reform their lives.



11 Cor. 11:17-32; Ps. 50:14-16; Isa. 1:11-17

Q. 88 How should this Ordinance of the Lord’s Supper be closed?

A. In singing Praises to God vocally and audibly for his great Benefits and Blessings to his Church in the shedding of the most precious Blood of his Son to take away their Sin; which Blessings are pointed out in this Sacrament. Also we find our Lord and his Disciples did close this Ordinance in singing a Hymn or Psalm; and if Christ sang, who was going to die, what cause have we to sing for whom he died, that we might not eternally die, but live a spiritual and eternal life with Father, Son, and Spirit in unexpressible Glory.1

1Mat. 26.30

An Orthodox Catechism | Feileadh Mor

 

[~Anastasia~]

All communions and all rituals whatever they may be have a certain symbolism behind them. They symbolize something on Earth or in Heaven.<snip>

Sorry for such long post, I hope I shed some light on this issue. If you have more questions do not hesitate to ask.

I just wanted to thank you for your thoughtful post, and all the information you provided. There were a couple of points in there I had not considered, and I thank you.

Welcome to CF as well! I see you are fairly recently joined.

I just wanted to let you know ... I hope no one here is bothered, and I know that I do very much appreciate your post. But I was going to let you know for future reference, I had posted this question in the Baptist section, so as to try to get a Baptist perspective on it, as I'm trying to understand better what my husband believes, since I believe it is the teaching he has received. Generally, only people of a certain denomination speaking from that denomination's perspective are allowed to post in these particular faith forums, which is why I tend to come to them only when I want to know just what a particular denomination believes. No debate is allowed, among other things.

I just wanted to let you know, in case anyone fusses at you. I do appreciate your post though. In the General Theology section, where I usually post, any topic that is not strictly unorthodox can be discussed from any point of view.

I do thank you for your post, and I thank the Baptist section for having patience.

Blessings to you!

 

[~Anastasia~]

From An Orthodox (Baptist) Catechism edited in the 17th century:

<snip>

An Orthodox Catechism | Feileadh Mor

Thank you very much for that, JM. I am very interested to see that these specific beliefs have gone back to the 17th century. I can't identify anything that disagrees with current Baptist theology, as I understand it (admittedly my understanding is imperfect), except for the word used being "sacrament" instead of "ordinance".

This was very thorough, and most helpful. Thank you again.

 

[alex2165]

Thank you Kylissa for 2.000.000 blessings I received from you in my private message box, now I am blessed for the rest of my life and more.

I also will take your advice concerning posting non-orthodox post on this forum.

And now you have my unlimited blessings for you from my heart.

Alex

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thank you Kylissa for 2.000.000 blessings I received from you in my private message box, now I am blessed for the rest of my life and more.

I also will take your advice concerning posting non-orthodox post on this forum.

And now you have my unlimited blessings for you from my heart.

Alex

You're more than welcome.

This particular "room" is a Baptist room, in the "Faith communities". In general the faith communities are separated by general denominational lines. You may post all the replies you like in the one for your particular church. And you may ask a question in any (except I heard there is one that doesn't accept questions, but I don't know which one that is).

In General Theology - this is where I usually post - you can post about anything theological, though I think communion would actually belong in the Sacramental part of that section.

If something is considered completely unorthodox - such as non-Trinitarianism, or annihilationism, then it must go in the unorthodox theology section and nowhere else (or the mods will move it there).

It took me a while to sort all the sections out, and I still make mistakes. Many have a "statement of purpose" sticky at the top that say who may post, etc.

In general, any Christian can post anywhere except to answer in a faith community (like the Baptist one here) that they don't belong to.

Non-Christians who join are much more limited, and may only post in certain places.

That's about all I know. I hope it can be of help.

 

[alex2165]

I also have a hard time to navigate among these numerous sections, but I getting better and better.

To tell you truth, I do not know exactly who I am in terms of theology, orthodoxy, denomination, and other things which separate Christians on so many different, confusing, and unnecessary groups and sects.

But I always come to Baptist churches whenever I go. It seems to me that they are closer to the originality, concept, and context of the Bible than any other denomination.

I am not looking for the arguments of heated debates, I simply expressing my opinion on the basis of my understanding of the Holy Scripture, and I do not know for which particular group of Baptist, or whatever, my opinion and point of view will fit to.

I like very much to see opinions of other people on any issue of the Bible, and in this case we can learn some useful and beneficial knowledge from one another.

So, I already posted reply on the issue of the Old and New Testament, on:
“General Theology – Sabbath and the Law”. And I will be looking for you as well.

I also will try to find the Sacramental forum you suggested, and will post “Passover” on it

See you later.

Alex.

 

[SeventhValley]

Here is what Southern Baptists follow. From the Baptist Faith and Message.
VII. Baptism and the Lord's Supper

Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead. Being a church ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper.
The Lord's Supper is a symbolic act of obedience whereby members of the church, through partaking of the bread and the fruit of the vine, memorialize the death of the Redeemer and anticipate His second coming.
Matthew 3:13-17; 26:26-30; 28:19-20; Mark 1:9-11; 14:22-26; Luke 3:21-22; 22:19-20; John 3:23; Acts 2:41-42; 8:35-39; 16:30-33; 20:7; Romans 6:3-5; 1 Corinthians 10:16,21; 11:23-29; Colossians 2:12.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I also have a hard time to navigate among these numerous sections, but I getting better and better.

To tell you truth, I do not know exactly who I am in terms of theology, orthodoxy, denomination, and other things which separate Christians on so many different, confusing, and unnecessary groups and sects.

But I always come to Baptist churches whenever I go. It seems to me that they are closer to the originality, concept, and context of the Bible than any other denomination.

I am not looking for the arguments of heated debates, I simply expressing my opinion on the basis of my understanding of the Holy Scripture, and I do not know for which particular group of Baptist, or whatever, my opinion and point of view will fit to.

I like very much to see opinions of other people on any issue of the Bible, and in this case we can learn some useful and beneficial knowledge from one another.

So, I already posted reply on the issue of the Old and New Testament, on:
“General Theology – Sabbath and the Law”. And I will be looking for you as well.

I also will try to find the Sacramental forum you suggested, and will post “Passover” on it

See you later.

Alex.

It gets easier when you've spent a little time here. And sometimes things get changed or moved, when it seems they will work better in another way.

The Sacramental/Ordinance theology is here: http://www.christianforums.com/f718/

I should have given you a link.

If you are interested in figuring out what kind of church matches your beliefs, and you want to explore others, you can go to the

Looking for a church forum: http://www.christianforums.com/f680/

But if you're sure it's Baptist you are after, you can post either in the Looking for a church or I am willing to guess you can probably get help here as well, in the Baptist Faith Community: http://www.christianforums.com/f364/

Hopefully I got all of those right. I've been in a number of different Baptist churches myself, but I'm not able to say really what the differences are.

No one should debate you at all in the Baptist faith community, and they probably won't in Looking for a Church.

However, if you go into any of the Theology forums, people do state their opinions, and sometimes strongly, so just be aware of that. I try to remember that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, in spite of our differences, and ought to allow charity to all.

Be blessed!

 

[alex2165]

When you wrote, “But if you're sure it's Baptist you are after“, it immediately came to my mind, do I belong to Baptists? And I remember the words of Paul.

1Corinthians 1.11-13
11.It has been reported to me by Chioe’s people that there are quarrels among you my brothers and sisters.
12.What I mean is that each of you says, ‘I belong to Paul,’ or ‘I belong to Apollos,’ or ‘I belong to Cephas,’ or ‘I belong to Christ.’
13.Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Or you Baptized in the name of John the Baptist and called yourselves Baptists? (from me)

I am not new to Christian Forums, and I have many posts on the other similar Web Sites, and I am not new to debates, arguments of all sorts, and also to insults, accusations, and of all sorts other similar things, but I always tried to keep myself contain, cool, and patient, I do not respond with anger or frustration to anyone.

But at the same time I know how to respond properly and to the point, and I am not afraid of any strong comments to my address.

I have some posts posted also and on the Unorthodox Doctrinal Discussions at the bottom of the Christian Forums, and once in a while I participate there, but I will explore and other options that you presented to me.

Alex

 

[~Anastasia~]

When you wrote, “But if you're sure it's Baptist you are after“, it immediately came to my mind, do I belong to Baptists? And I remember the words of Paul.

1Corinthians 1.11-13
11.It has been reported to me by Chioe’s people that there are quarrels among you my brothers and sisters.
12.What I mean is that each of you says, ‘I belong to Paul,’ or ‘I belong to Apollos,’ or ‘I belong to Cephas,’ or ‘I belong to Christ.’
13.Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Or you Baptized in the name of John the Baptist and called yourselves Baptists? (from me)

I am not new to Christian Forums, and I have many posts on the other similar Web Sites, and I am not new to debates, arguments of all sorts, and also to insults, accusations, and of all sorts other similar things, but I always tried to keep myself contain, cool, and patient, I do not respond with anger or frustration to anyone.

But at the same time I know how to respond properly and to the point, and I am not afraid of any strong comments to my address.

I have some posts posted also and on the Unorthodox Doctrinal Discussions at the bottom of the Christian Forums, and once in a while I participate there, but I will explore and other options that you presented to me.

Alex

I am sorry - I don't mean to imply that you are new to posting in Christian forums. I was hoping to be helpful. It's very common I've seen to warn folks in other areas before they venture into General Theology here (though I find some of the areas that allow atheists to post to be more difficult). My apologies - I did not mean to be insulting or condescending in any way.

And I myself don't embrace the idea of the church divided. The only problem is that we have to find a local part of the Body to attach ourselves to, and denominations at least give us a starting place.

I would that we were all one in Truth - but that is not the current state in my opinion.

Please, forgive me if I've offended in any way. I look forward to your posts in various forums here - I enjoyed your post on Passover here.

Blessings to you!