Question 4 Catholics: What is going on in side the RCC with the Pope.

[JSRG]

Paul was married and then his wife left him because he became a Christian.

Can you say what your source for this is? This is the first I have ever heard of this claim.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Can you say what your source for this is? This is the first I have ever heard of this claim.

he was a pharisee, they were married it was a requirement.

 

[Buzzard3]

The Church Corrupted itself.

In that case, Jesus lied when he said "the gates of hell will not prevail against" his Church (Matt 16:18).

 

[Buzzard3]

the catholic church of today is not the church of the Bible, the Catholic Church is corrupt. as predicted in Revelation and 666. 666 refers to Solomon God's official representative. The church is God's official representative. Solomon Corrupted himself, The Church Corrupted itself. Solomon made an Alliance with the Kings of the world The Catholic Church allied with the kings of the world, Rome. Solomon misrepresents God to the people The RCC misrepresents God to the people.

Where was the true Church when all this corruption was going on?

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Really? If a believer cannot lose his salvation, that means he can live a life filled with the most evil deeds imaginable and God will still save him! OSAS is a fool's paradise.

If you ever meet the Savior, if your deeds are really forgiven, why would you live a sinful life?

You live a life of obedience, you want to please God and you will hate sin. That life won't be perfect, but the Holy Spirit is there to guide us.

It's like a bride who is getting married to the love of her life. How you ever seen a bride who just sits on her bed, waiting to get married? Why wouldn't she? She is getting married....no one does that. The bride grows in love, she tells everyone, she prepares for the wedding, so is the life of a Christian. We grow in love, we tell everyone what Jesus done to us, we prepare to be with Him.

If you truly are saved, you are greatful and just want to serve Lord, obey His commandements, not because it will save you, but because you love Him.

It's like when Israel came out of Egypt. Then God gave them the 10 commandments. Not to be saved, because they were already saved, but so they can have a relationship with Him.

I can say for my self that my whole life I've done evil. There was nothing for God to desire in me, bur He found something in Himself to save me. I've done nothing for it. Does that mean I am free to sin? Absolutely not, sin is evil, it still has consequences and is deadly, and I cannot wait for the day that I'll never sin again. I'm so grateful that all I want to do is to please God, but all I will boast about is Christ, even when I do a goof deed, I praise God alone.

I think this conversation is going for long enough. To sum it up, for me, Christ's perfect sacrifice is enough, His blood washed away all my sins, and I was reconciled back to God, and now I'm being remade in an image of Christ.

For you His sacrifice is not enough, and you add deeds.

 

[Buzzard3]

If you ever meet the Savior, if your deeds are really forgiven, why would you live a sinful life?

Because we have a fallen, sinful nature. Everyone has a sinful weakness that gives them pleasure of some kind. If sin were not pleasurable, it would not tempt us and would not be a problem. Sin can be powerfully addictive and addictions can snowball in very serious problems, very serious sins and even very serious crimes.

The love of sin can become stronger than one's love of God - just ask Judas. It's not wise to underestimate the power of sin.

A believer who is a husband could be greatly tempted to commit adultery with a beautiful woman, for example. If he believes Jesus has paid for all his sins and he has no fear of losing his salvation, he might decide he has nothing to lose by giving into that temptation.

Likewise, a believer might be tempted to steal. Steaking small things can quickly turn into stealing big things. With no fear of losing his salvation, such a believer might find himself committing serious crimes of theft.

Or a believer might have homosexual tendencies. With no fear of losing his salvation, that believer might easily give in to temptation and become a slave to that particular sin.



Phil 2:22-13 says "work out your own salvation with FEAR and TREMBLING" because God will judge your deeds, and your sinful deeds can destroy your hope of salvation and land you in hell.

Likewise, 1Peter 1:16-17 says "it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his DEEDS, conduct yourselves with FEAR throughout the time of your exile."

In Col 3:5-7, Paul warns believers: "Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things THE WRATH OF GOD IS COMING upon the sons of DISOBEDIENCE, in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them."



1John 5:16-17 says
"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a DEADLY sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not DEADLY. There is sin which is DEADLY; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not DEADLY."

Some sins are serious enough to be "DEADLY", which means they can land you in hell. The Catholic Church calls these sins, mortal sins. Examples are adultery, murder, abortion.

The bottom line is, Jesus has not paid the penalty for your sins - your sins are your responsibility and God will judge them. Thankfully, the Catholic Church offers the sacrament of Reconciliation, thru which one's sins can be forgiven. This is what John 20:21-33 refers to:

"Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”"

 

[Buzzard3]

It's like when Israel came out of Egypt. Then God gave them the 10 commandments. Not to be saved, because they were already saved, but so they can have a relationship with Him.

That's not how it was at all. The Ten Commandments were part of the covenant God made with the Israelites thru Moses. If the Israelites obeyed God and kept their side of the covenant, God promised to bless and protect them. But if they disobeyed God and didn't keep their side of the covenant, God promised to curse and destroy them.

From Deuteronomy 28:

“And if you obey the voice of the Lord your God, being careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. 2 And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you obey the voice of the Lord your God ...

15 “But if you will not obey the voice of the Lord your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you ...

45 All these curses shall come upon you and pursue you and overtake you, till you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded you"



Furthermore, God didn't allow those Israelites who doubted and rebelled against him to live to see the Promised Land. They died in the desert (Numbers 14). So much for being "already saved"!

 

[Buzzard3]

Just because God listens to our prayers, does not mean He can be influenced or that we can change His mind. God can change His mind but it won't be by anythinf we do or say. We don't pray to God to change His mind as He is perfect.

In Numbers 14, on account of their disbelief and rebellion, God threatened to destroy all the Israelites (all except Moses, it would seem):

"And the Lord said to Moses, “How long will this people despise me? And how long will they not believe in me, in spite of all the signs which I have wrought among them? I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them, and I will make of you a nation greater and mightier than they.”

But Moses pleaded with God to not destroy the Israelities:

"But Moses said to the Lord ... 'Pardon the iniquity of this people, I pray thee, according to the greatness of thy steadfast love, and according as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now.'”

As a result of Moses' intercession, God relented, but promised that none of the rebellious Israeliteies would not live to see the Promised Land:​

"Then the Lord said, “I have pardoned, according to your word; but truly, as I live, and as all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the Lord, none of the men who have seen my glory and my signs which I wrought in Egypt and in the wilderness, and yet have put me to the proof these ten times and have not hearkened to my voice, shall see the land which I swore to give to their fathers; and none of those who despised me shall see it."

 

[chevyontheriver]

I came across a video by some Big Catholic official Denouncing Bishop Francis. Calling him an Apostate and a Heretic, WOW!!!! As a non-catholic outsider, I find this very interesting. The internal drama of different churches is fascinating, the Methodist Drama, The SDA Drama, and the Scientology drama are all amazing. The Catholic church drama is equally amazing.

Now, the bishop was talking about irregularities in the election of Pope Francis. That his election was illegitimate, implying it was fraudulent. He also states that Francis was trying to "destroy the church" "Hi a a Bergolio I am here to destroy the church vote for me". Those are some pretty hard statements. What is this about? What are the issues? What is the big deal with the TLM. Why does that matter?

Unhappily he is a validly elected pope. Those who say he isn’t a real pope are fetching at straws. That because it’s easier to think that he isn’t really the pope than to confront the likelihood that he may be a bad pope.

We had a run of some really good popes. Benedict was really good. John Paul II was great. John Paul I wasn’t around long enough but he looks like he would have been very good. Paul VI tried hard. John XXIII was a good and holy man. Pius XII was a solid. Now we have Francis, a whole new paradigm, and he isn’t intellectually or temperamentally up to that level. You can’t always tell if he is being driven in his comments by dementia or ideology (maybe liberation theology or Peronism or ecologism) or just folksy thinking. He is doing damage in the process, having appointed a bunch of bad cardinals and bad bishops. He has not technically spouted any heresy as official teaching even though he has said such things unofficially many times. He has the prayers of Catholics all over the world, which is probably why he hasn’t been worse.

The big deal with the TLM is that it works as a vehicle for holiness and most who attend it are also learning their faith pretty well. It is one of the growing parts of the Catholic faith. And pope Francis seems to hate the TLM and would be happy to shut it down if he only could. He doesn’t like those people at all and they aren’t liking him too much either. Why does he hate them? I think they figured him out early on. Some of them rejected him as a fake pope, but by no means all. Some of them hold to the opinion that he is a bad pope that we must pray hard for, which is also my opinion even though I have rarely attended a TLM mass.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

. That his election was illegitimate, implying it was fraudulent.

That is always a strategy when you don't like the election results. It does no good whatso ever. We know that well here in the U.S.

 

[Fidelibus]

The RCC misrepresents God to the people.

How about the other Rites of the Catholic Church? Are they too misrepresenting God to the people?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

How about the other Rites of the Catholic Church? Are they too misrepresenting God to the people?

which one are you speaking of?

 

[Fidelibus]

which one are you speaking of?

I was speaking in the plural (Rites), not the singular, (one).

I would suggest if you planned to comment further in regard to the Catholic Church, a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church would be of a great benefit to you understanding the church and her beliefs.


Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Buzzard3]

which one are you speaking of?

The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is a subset of the Catholic Church - not all Catholics are Roman Catholics. There are 24 forms (Rites) of the Catholic Church, which all share the same dogmas and are all united under (in communion with) the Pope, who happens to be a Roman Catholic. The Pope does not have to be a Roman Catholic be elected to that position.

 

[RileyG]

which one are you speaking of?

The Eastern Rites. Former Orthodox Churches that are now in Communion with Rome under the Pope, known as Eastern Catholics. There are six rites in the Church Roman or Latin (Western) and five eastern rites: Byzantine, Coptic (Alexandrian), East Syriac Rite, West Syriac Rite, and Armenian. There are 24 churches that all recognize the Pope, such as the Ukrainian-Greek Catholic Church, which is one of the Byzantine rites.

Other "rites" within the West include Sarum (Salisbury) rite which was predominately celebrated in England prior to the Reformation, Ambrosian rite, Anglican use, and Zaire rite, among others.

 

[RileyG]

We do not worship the Virgin Mary. We do not worship any Saints or images. We do not see the Pope as equal to God. We do not believe works can save us. These are nothing but anti-Catholic propaganda from those who know nothing about what the RCC teaches.

 

[RileyG]

Where in the Bible does it say Peter founded church in Rome? It's just a Roman Catholic tradition, with evidence ponting the other direction.

Peter was first in Antioch and later as the Bishop in Rome. This is a historical fact.

 

[Buzzard3]

This is a historical fact.

Those facts are a jolly nuisance! ... to some.

 

[RileyG]

I think you mean "We do not worship the Virgin Mary."

Edited! Thanks for letting me know oops!

 

[JSRG]

The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is a subset of the Catholic Church - not all Catholics are Roman Catholics. There are 23 (I think) forms (Rites) of the Catholic Church, which all share the same dogmas and are all united under (in communion with) the Pope, who happens to be a Roman Catholic. The Pope does not have to be a Roman Catholic be elected to that position.

The more accurate term than "Roman Catholic Church" in terms of what you are describing would be the "Latin Rite". The difficulty is that "Roman Catholic" can have a different number of meanings, both in popular parlance and even within the Catholic Church. It could just be a term for the Catholic Church as a whole (as a way to distinguish itself from other possible meanings or usages of catholic), it can be a term for specifically the Latin rite, or it can even be used only specifically for the Church in Rome. In general parlance in English, I would say "Roman Catholic" is interpreted to refer to the entire Catholic Church (those in communion with the Bishop of Rome a.k.a. the pope), including the other rites.