quantum physics and time

[kentgladden]

Nice logic. I hadn't thought about speed time dialation. Here's another one.
Time is connected to mass. Now imagin the effect of the act of creating
mass out of nothing and it's possible effect on time.

When Jesus created wine from water some "time" seems to have taken
place that we don't get to observe.

Well, I wouldn't phrase things in those ways personally. First, nothing is created from Nothing. This eventually forces a metaphysical/philosophical explanation of some things down the road, but I'll try to stick to the broad strokes version here.

The only explanation that holds up for everything is that the Absolute Potential for Existence itself is Conscious and Infinite. That singular consciousness can be thought of something like a wave superposition state radiant energy source of limitless power. In fact, the creative potential of consciousness, "imagination", is the only thing known to show it has no absolute limitations. Further supporting materials occur throughout the bible as well as in Orthodox Jewish Kaballah and other spiritual belief systems. Statements such as "all things existed in the mind of God", the "Tree of Life", "Ygdrisil", etc...

Kaballic references to God restraining the Light as He filtered it from one sphere of Sepiroth to the next, until the Light finally manifest in the sphere of Malkuth (the known material universe) strikingly resemble current models by theoretical physicists such as Brian Greene and Antony Garret Lisi of double digit dimensional superstring theory.

Religious text of the past referred to these as spheres or worlds. More accurately, they represent other dimensional states where energy behaves differently. Governed by altered principles relating to more advanced states of consciousness, home to beings of greater energy potential and intellect. Thus, the source of angelic orders (cherubim, seraphim, etc) and such.

Anyway... infinite conscious energy, the actual "God Energy" as opposed to "God Particle" (Higgs boson), provides for a readily explainable mechanism by which a proto-matter was created to seed the Big Bang creation of the material universe. As well as the source of the energy to compress/heat it. All while not violating the law of conservation that applies in this universe.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Well, I wouldn't phrase things in those ways personally. First, nothing is created from Nothing. This eventually forces a metaphysical/philosophical explanation of some things down the road, but I'll try to stick to the broad strokes version here.

The only explanation that holds up for everything is that the Absolute Potential for Existence itself is Conscious and Infinite. That singular consciousness can be thought of something like a wave superposition state radiant energy source of limitless power. In fact, the creative potential of consciousness, "imagination", is the only thing known to show it has no absolute limitations. Further supporting materials occur throughout the bible as well as in Orthodox Jewish Kaballah and other spiritual belief systems. Statements such as "all things existed in the mind of God", the "Tree of Life", "Ygdrisil", etc...

Kaballic references to God restraining the Light as He filtered it from one sphere of Sepiroth to the next, until the Light finally manifest in the sphere of Malkuth (the known material universe) strikingly resemble current models by theoretical physicists such as Brian Greene and Antony Garret Lisi of double digit dimensional superstring theory.

Religious text of the past referred to these as spheres or worlds. More accurately, they represent other dimensional states where energy behaves differently. Governed by altered principles relating to more advanced states of consciousness, home to beings of greater energy potential and intellect. Thus, the source of angelic orders (cherubim, seraphim, etc) and such.

Anyway... infinite conscious energy, the actual "God Energy" as opposed to "God Particle" (Higgs boson), provides for a readily explainable mechanism by which a proto-matter was created to seed the Big Bang creation of the material universe. As well as the source of the energy to compress/heat it. All while not violating the law of conservation that applies in this universe.

I know Thor: The Dark World was awesome, but Ygdrisil, really?

 

[Habakk]

Well, I wouldn't phrase things in those ways personally. First, nothing is created from Nothing. This eventually forces a metaphysical/philosophical explanation of some things down the road, but I'll try to stick to the broad strokes version here.

The only explanation that holds up for everything is that the Absolute Potential for Existence itself is Conscious and Infinite. That singular consciousness can be thought of something like a wave superposition state radiant energy source of limitless power. In fact, the creative potential of consciousness, "imagination", is the only thing known to show it has no absolute limitations. Further supporting materials occur throughout the bible as well as in Orthodox Jewish Kaballah and other spiritual belief systems. Statements such as "all things existed in the mind of God", the "Tree of Life", "Ygdrisil", etc...

Kaballic references to God restraining the Light as He filtered it from one sphere of Sepiroth to the next, until the Light finally manifest in the sphere of Malkuth (the known material universe) strikingly resemble current models by theoretical physicists such as Brian Greene and Antony Garret Lisi of double digit dimensional superstring theory.

Religious text of the past referred to these as spheres or worlds. More accurately, they represent other dimensional states where energy behaves differently. Governed by altered principles relating to more advanced states of consciousness, home to beings of greater energy potential and intellect. Thus, the source of angelic orders (cherubim, seraphim, etc) and such.

Anyway... infinite conscious energy, the actual "God Energy" as opposed to "God Particle" (Higgs boson), provides for a readily explainable mechanism by which a proto-matter was created to seed the Big Bang creation of the material universe. As well as the source of the energy to compress/heat it. All while not violating the law of conservation that applies in this universe.

Einstein’s theory of relativity is a well established theory that has made many accurate predictions. Example black holes. However there are still some problems in reconciling the theory with quantum mechanics and we don’t yet have the elusive unifying theorem or Theory of Everything. Quantum mechanics is also a well established field with empirical validation. There is no reason whatsoever to suggest any need for metaphysics. Quantum mechanics adequately addresses the inherent strangeness of matter. The kabala is Jewish mysticism or occult. The so called “god particle” or Higgs boson was given its nick name for completely different reasons to those imagined by a lot of people. Thermodynamics and entropy operate within a closed system that system being the universe.

 

[kentgladden]

Einstein’s theory of relativity is a well established theory that has made many accurate predictions. Example black holes. However there are still some problems in reconciling the theory with quantum mechanics and we don’t yet have the elusive unifying theorem or Theory of Everything. Quantum mechanics is also a well established field with empirical validation. There is no reason whatsoever to suggest any need for metaphysics. Quantum mechanics adequately addresses the inherent strangeness of matter. The kabala is Jewish mysticism or occult. The so called “god particle” or Higgs boson was given its nick name for completely different reasons to those imagined by a lot of people. Thermodynamics and entropy operate within a closed system that system being the universe.

I beg to differ. I have never heard a physics professor or colleague claim to have an answer for where the origin of Existence comes from. Not a single one. The matter and energy used in the BB had to have come from somewhere. So where did it come from?

Ask that fundamental question of each and every answer to "What is the ORIGIN of Existence?"... and sooner or later every scientist will admit they have no answer. It's an infinite game of Chicken or the Egg. Because energy/matter cannot be created nor destroyed. Only change form. Even when antimatter encounters matter (such as in particle accelerator experiments), the "annihilation" is anything but that. It is, more accurately, a conversion or transformation into pure energy. Only confirming that particles are indeed pure energy that has coalesced into seemingly less transient forms.

This concept should be obvious to every first year physics student the moment they learn that an electron's mass changes in exact relation to a photon it emits or absorbs. That fundamental energy has to (and had to) come from somewhere. In the end, one is always forced to choose what to believe in the absence of proof we can empirically demonstrate with repetition and peer review. WHAT is the nature and ORIGIN of this energy? And is it more rational to believe it began as dead unintelligent phenomena, or as a living conscious intelligent cause?

Even Erich Jantsch, Austrian astrophysicist and author of "The Self Organizing Uniiverse", had to begin his premise at the Big Bang. Unable to account where the source of it actually came from. Coming at the issue from a different perspective, there are the ongoing works of David Chalmers, Roger Penrose and Stuart Hammeroff, and Jack Sarfatti and Alan Wolfe. All of whom are pioneers in Consciousness as well as well-respected physicists and mathematicians, except for Chalmers who was elected as a Fellow to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences earlier this year. And is also a Rhodes Scholar.

I believe self organization utterly fails as an explanation of ORIGIN because, in order to self organize, there would have to already be something there to organize. To explain something you have no evidence for... that is an act of belief. Also called Faith. Which is absolutely a metaphysical/philosophical explanation. Like it or not.

 

[kentgladden]

I know Thor: The Dark World was awesome, but Ygdrisil, really?

Couldn't tell you. I haven't seen it. But you might get a little something reading the response to "Habakk" above. Better yet, familiarize yourself with some of the people I mention in it. Especially Chalmers.

 

[SkyWriting]

It's interesting that those involved in the study of quantum physics have discovered that even time is composed of quanta. This means that time...as we know it...is a part of Christ's creation, along with mass and space.

"Quanta" is the plural for Quantum.
Time may be the result of man's
sin, as it seems everything was
eternal before that event.

 

[Lollerskates]

It's interesting that those involved in the study of quantum physics have discovered that even time is composed of quanta. This means that time...as we know it...is a part of Christ's creation, along with mass and space.

It follows that theologians should be quite cautious as they speak of events occurring "before" the creation. We have experienced only the time of the creation and have no knowledge...unless it is revealed in His Word...of any other "time."

Time was defined by God in Genesis, and the second is defined by humans as ~9 Billion hyperfine transitions in the Cesium-133 atom. Time is part of creation in both accounts.

But time is not a dimension; it is an evolution of events. If God defines a day as evening to morning, then eternity means that, yet the evening comes first (the bad, the evil, the hardships, trials, darkness, etc.,) but the day never wanes (day as in illumination, happiness, etc.) Very deep in its meaning of time.

 

[ArtB]

Do we still have time in the "eternity"?

Yes, but time will always be finite. It could never be infinite.

Time is a concrete idea. Therefore time has to always be finite. If time was infinitely long, time could never arrive at the present moment. Unlike the number line, ... 1, 2, 3, ,4 .. where there are an infinite numbers between every two numbers.

Time is a concrete concept because it depends on movement of matter or energy in the real physical world we live in. In fact, it is currently based on the caesium - 133 atom for most countries.

There are no real infinities in our real concrete Universe, except for the field of topology, where the definition of 'Infinity' is the ability to take another step in a given direction. for instance, in topology, the moon can keep going around the Earth over and over, topology labels that an 'infinity' event. The term does not mean it can do so forever.

 

[ArtB]

It's interesting that those involved in the study of quantum physics have discovered that even time is composed of quanta. This means that time...as we know it...is a part of Christ's creation, along with mass and space.

It follows that theologians should be quite cautious as they speak of events occurring "before" the creation. We have experienced only the time of the creation and have no knowledge...unless it is revealed in His Word...of any other "time."

Interesting.

Time is based upon movement. If something moves, time passes. Therefore, how can time be still? The ultimate of death is when our entire universe drops to absolute zero, and there is no movement.

But then again, sometimes I wonder if our universe is real. It might be an illusion, a well planned dream, or like the electronic games we play, and Heaven may be the real world.

Or perhaps there are 10 or 11 Dimensions covering several, I'm thinking of 3 realms of reality. Perhaps the fish and loaves arrived from a third set of parallel Dimensions. That is a big perhaps though. What man can not do, God can.

 

[Habakk]

I beg to differ. I have never heard a physics professor or colleague claim to have an answer for where the origin of Existence comes from. Not a single one. The matter and energy used in the BB had to have come from somewhere. So where did it come from?

Ask that fundamental question of each and every answer to "What is the ORIGIN of Existence?"... and sooner or later every scientist will admit they have no answer. It's an infinite game of Chicken or the Egg. Because energy/matter cannot be created nor destroyed. Only change form. Even when antimatter encounters matter (such as in particle accelerator experiments), the "annihilation" is anything but that. It is, more accurately, a conversion or transformation into pure energy. Only confirming that particles are indeed pure energy that has coalesced into seemingly less transient forms.

This concept should be obvious to every first year physics student the moment they learn that an electron's mass changes in exact relation to a photon it emits or absorbs. That fundamental energy has to (and had to) come from somewhere. In the end, one is always forced to choose what to believe in the absence of proof we can empirically demonstrate with repetition and peer review. WHAT is the nature and ORIGIN of this energy? And is it more rational to believe it began as dead unintelligent phenomena, or as a living conscious intelligent cause?

Even Erich Jantsch, Austrian astrophysicist and author of "The Self Organizing Uniiverse", had to begin his premise at the Big Bang. Unable to account where the source of it actually came from. Coming at the issue from a different perspective, there are the ongoing works of David Chalmers, Roger Penrose and Stuart Hammeroff, and Jack Sarfatti and Alan Wolfe. All of whom are pioneers in Consciousness as well as well-respected physicists and mathematicians, except for Chalmers who was elected as a Fellow to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences earlier this year. And is also a Rhodes Scholar.

I believe self organization utterly fails as an explanation of ORIGIN because, in order to self organize, there would have to already be something there to organize. To explain something you have no evidence for... that is an act of belief. Also called Faith. Which is absolutely a metaphysical/philosophical explanation. Like it or not.

Maybe you missed the point I was making, the hot big bang and other big bang theories do not postulate the creation of the universe they are confined to the expansion of the universe. There are various postulations for the event before big bang that is a different matter. Also in physics there is the concept of virtual particle pairs that pop in and out of existence all the time as part of atomic function.

What you did seem to be proposing was some sort of metaphysical mechanism of creation and that has problems scientifically. I agree that all existence started with God, he is the creator of all things. However if you attempt to propose a mechanism for such an act of divine fiat, then scientifically there should be some footprints of creation that are empirically verifiable. This is where you get problems scientifically. God is the creator but we simply don’t know how he done it, that is good science. Scripture says “by faith we understand how the world was framed….” By faith not by empirical naturalistic mechanism. We can’t reduce the spiritual to the natural.

 

[SkyWriting]

However if you attempt to propose a mechanism for such an act of divine fiat, then scientifically there should be some footprints of creation that are empirically verifiable.

A food scientist tastes the wine Jesus produced and said it was "the best".
That's a solid footprint considering the source was jug water.

John 2:10 and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."

 

[Ursus scientia]

EDIT - Whoops. Wrong forum. Sorry!

 

[SkyWriting]

Anecdotes are not data.

Its the only data we have to work with.
No past events are data then.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Do we still have time in the "eternity"?

Wait for it...




Wait for it...




Wait for it...



...Eternity is created. God created ALL.

(That doesn't mean anyone actually knows what eternity IS and can process the truth of my statement.)

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

So you made a definitive statement based on something you think you heard. Got it.

I don't need to question colleagues because I know that such a determination has never been made.

Not only that - there is no theory that incorporates quantisation of time which bears any resemblance to reality. In loop quantum gravity research people have tried models with quantising the hypervolume of spacetime itself but have got nowhere doing so.

"Science" (gnosis) falsely so called.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I have no reason to question your knowledge in the field of quantum physics. I would question the knowledge of the speaker I heard. He was making statements...definitive statements...regarding the work of those in your field. This is commonly done and the audience is left to trust the veracity of the speaker. I believe I remember the speaker to be Chuck Missler, though I could be wrong. Perhaps he heard incorrectly or misunderstood that which he had been told. I do consider Brother Missler as one who would attempt to be faithful in accurately repeating that which he had heard.

All of this is rather silly. The important matters are that God exists outside of the realm of time and that Christ created all such realms.
http://www.shopeshop.org/preChoice.htm
In Christ,
Bill Shope

Yes, ALL such realms.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Well, I wouldn't phrase things in those ways personally. First, nothing is created from Nothing. This eventually forces a metaphysical/philosophical explanation of some things down the road, but I'll try to stick to the broad strokes version here.

The only explanation that holds up for everything is that the Absolute Potential for Existence itself is Conscious and Infinite. That singular consciousness can be thought of something like a wave superposition state radiant energy source of limitless power. In fact, the creative potential of consciousness, "imagination", is the only thing known to show it has no absolute limitations. Further supporting materials occur throughout the bible as well as in Orthodox Jewish Kaballah and other spiritual belief systems. Statements such as "all things existed in the mind of God", the "Tree of Life", "Ygdrisil", etc...

Kaballic references to God restraining the Light as He filtered it from one sphere of Sepiroth to the next, until the Light finally manifest in the sphere of Malkuth (the known material universe) strikingly resemble current models by theoretical physicists such as Brian Greene and Antony Garret Lisi of double digit dimensional superstring theory.

Religious text of the past referred to these as spheres or worlds. More accurately, they represent other dimensional states where energy behaves differently. Governed by altered principles relating to more advanced states of consciousness, home to beings of greater energy potential and intellect. Thus, the source of angelic orders (cherubim, seraphim, etc) and such.

Anyway... infinite conscious energy, the actual "God Energy" as opposed to "God Particle" (Higgs boson), provides for a readily explainable mechanism by which a proto-matter was created to seed the Big Bang creation of the material universe. As well as the source of the energy to compress/heat it. All while not violating the law of conservation that applies in this universe.

Of course. All Empiricism of Scientific Naturalism will ultimately lead to Kabbalah. That's the deception.

(Oh... and... There's no such thing any longer as "Orthodox Jewish" anything. Biblical Judaism is extinct. No Levitical Priesthood; no temple; no sacrifices; no yet-coming Messiah; no yet-to-be-fulfilled Mosaic Law. The modern usurpation is Pharisaic Rabbinic Talmudism. Kabbalah. Ancient Babylonian Mystical Idolatry, upon which modern "science"'s foundations are built.

The whole lump is leavened, as you've clearly stated.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Nice logic. I hadn't thought about speed time dialation. Here's another one.
Time is connected to mass. Now imagin the effect of the act of creating
mass out of nothing and it's possible effect on time.

When Jesus created wine from water some "time" seems to have taken
place that we don't get to observe.

"Quanta" is the plural for Quantum.
Time may be the result of man's
sin, as it seems everything was
eternal before that event.

Getting closer and closer. Excellent posts.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I beg to differ. I have never heard a physics professor or colleague claim to have an answer for where the origin of Existence comes from. Not a single one. The matter and energy used in the BB had to have come from somewhere. So where did it come from?

Ask that fundamental question of each and every answer to "What is the ORIGIN of Existence?"... and sooner or later every scientist will admit they have no answer. It's an infinite game of Chicken or the Egg. Because energy/matter cannot be created nor destroyed. Only change form. Even when antimatter encounters matter (such as in particle accelerator experiments), the "annihilation" is anything but that. It is, more accurately, a conversion or transformation into pure energy. Only confirming that particles are indeed pure energy that has coalesced into seemingly less transient forms.

This concept should be obvious to every first year physics student the moment they learn that an electron's mass changes in exact relation to a photon it emits or absorbs. That fundamental energy has to (and had to) come from somewhere. In the end, one is always forced to choose what to believe in the absence of proof we can empirically demonstrate with repetition and peer review. WHAT is the nature and ORIGIN of this energy? And is it more rational to believe it began as dead unintelligent phenomena, or as a living conscious intelligent cause?

Even Erich Jantsch, Austrian astrophysicist and author of "The Self Organizing Uniiverse", had to begin his premise at the Big Bang. Unable to account where the source of it actually came from. Coming at the issue from a different perspective, there are the ongoing works of David Chalmers, Roger Penrose and Stuart Hammeroff, and Jack Sarfatti and Alan Wolfe. All of whom are pioneers in Consciousness as well as well-respected physicists and mathematicians, except for Chalmers who was elected as a Fellow to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences earlier this year. And is also a Rhodes Scholar.

I believe self organization utterly fails as an explanation of ORIGIN because, in order to self organize, there would have to already be something there to organize. To explain something you have no evidence for... that is an act of belief. Also called Faith. Which is absolutely a metaphysical/philosophical explanation. Like it or not.

Bypass the Kabbalah and you're getting somewhere.

 

[Habakk]

A food scientist tastes the wine Jesus produced and said it was "the best".
That's a solid footprint considering the source was jug water.

John 2:10 and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."

Not arguing with that, however no mechanism is proposed.