QFT ~ Adrian Rogers

[JustAsIam77]

lol, it's not communist, it's socialist - apparently there's a HUGE difference ...

here's something our prime minister recently said:

"Neo-liberalism and the free-market fundamentalism it has produced has been revealed as little more than personal greed dressed up as an economic philosophy. And, ironically, it now falls to social democracy to prevent liberal capitalism from cannibalising itself."

"A system of open markets, unambiguously regulated by an activist state, and one in which the state intervenes to reduce the greater inequalities that competitive markets will inevitably generate,"

And what do you americans make of this? I'm not too 'with it' on American financial policy history...
"Not for the first time in history, the international challenge for social democrats is to save capitalism from itself: to recognise the great strengths of open, competitive markets while rejecting the extreme capitalism and unrestrained greed that have perverted so much of the global financial system in recent times. It fell to Franklin Delano Roosevelt to rebuild American capitalism after the Depression. It fell also to the American Democrats, strongly influenced by John Maynard Keynes, to rebuild postwar domestic demand, to engineer the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe and to set in place the Bretton Woods system to govern international economic engagement. And so it now falls to President Obama's administration - and to those who will provide international support for his leadership - to support a global financial system that properly balances private incentive with public responsibility in response to the grave challenges presented by the current crisis. The common thread uniting all three of these episodes is a reliance on the agency of the state to reconstitute properly regulated markets and to rebuild domestic and global demand."

It "sounds" like a politicians hot air escaping into the vaperous atmosphere. Any time I hear "global" more than one time in a political speech I get concerned. i.e. Obamas Berliner speech, "citizens of the world, unite" etc,etc,etc

What is the best course of financial action for the US is not necessarily in accordance with Great Britain, or Russia, or China.

 

[AnneSally]

I agree with Obama, this bailout money shouldn't be lining the pockets of greedy corporate leaders who have failed in the first place! Because of their mismanagement America's economy went down the toilet but people are blaming the govt? Why?

The "fatcats" haven't earned anything, they've just been skimming the cream whilst the actual workers get laid off and lose their homes and yet the ones who are really suffering don't get any bailout money but the Bank of America head handed himself $48million. For what? The banks failed and as head honcho he should bear the responsibility.

So I'm glad Obama has put them on notice, it's about time! All these excessive extravagent bonuses and golden parachutes for failure are about as gross as it gets!

 

[AnneSally]

What is the best course of financial action for the US is not necessarily in accordance with Great Britain, or Russia, or China.

I agree, there should have been no tax payer bailout money. If America believes so much in its capitalism, it should have been capitalism to save it, but tax payer money to bail out its failed economy? That's the biggest American contradiction ever.

 

[AnneSally]

I don't know he has only been in office and we are already rapidly turning into a communist country

LOL, you are so faaaaaaaar from being a communist country it's a joke!

 

[AnneSally]

I guess I'm the only one here that I think that it's a good move to cap executives salaries.

I agree with you....

 

[AnneSally]

While the people on top make millions your regular workers makes but near chunk change. Not to mention executives have become extremely irresponsible, they leave companies broken and run with millions while workers are left without a job.

Exactly! But the executives take themselves off to spas and give themselves huge helpings of money which they shouldn't be entitled to. How is that fair when folk are losing their jobs and homes?

 

[Cris413]

I watched that too last night and that definitely rubbed me the wrong way except I didn't have the words so I changed the channel to FOX because ABC was patting Obama on the back and acting like putting a salary cap on executives was going to "clear our doubts" I forgot what the anchorperson was saying at the time and I forgot who it even was but they said something along the lines of "Well if you had any doubts before... this should ease them (or some bull like that)" and then they went on to talk about Obama's Salary cap and then aired a clip of some jeweler who is excited about the cap I guess I don't know what it was about. ABC is so in love with President Obama. How is putting a pay cap on executives going to ease my doubts about him or his policies?

does this pay cap EXCLUDE ABC execs?

 

[Cris413]

I couldn't agree with you more. I too am sick & disgusted with politicians. Fed up.

I don't know why the messiah doesn't just ask his fellow rats to pass the porkulus, oops, stimulus bill now. He has the votes to do it. I know why, he doesn't have the stones to take responsibilty for this crap sandwich without dragging in some republicans so that down the road both parties will be blamed for it's dismal failure to do anything except add to the national debt and cause a huge spike in inflation.

but a sandwich isn't a sandwich without Miracle Whip...I guess...Wealth Spread is the new Miracle Whip.......

 

[Cris413]

Reformed I just hope that these companies that took the bailout money get the message and don't try to squander our tax dollars on bonuses, spa retreats, new private jets etc. These companies haven't really left the government with any other options it seems like every week some company that recieved a bailout is wasting money on luxurous thing or another.

I do consider...if companies take Government money...they should be on Government restriction...Just as...if the Government takes the peoples money...they should be on restriction as well...spend it in the best interest of the people...not themselves.

While I do consider corporate greed and corruption needs to be addressed...

...first and foremost Government greed and corruption should be addressed...and we shouldn't forget...sometimes the two go hand in hand.

 

[CyberPaladin]

LOL, you are so faaaaaaaar from being a communist country it's a joke!

Yeah right give Obama another 6 months our flag will be red with a hammer and a sicle on it.

 

[Nadiine]

Exactly! But the executives take themselves off to spas and give themselves huge helpings of money which they shouldn't be entitled to. How is that fair when folk are losing their jobs and homes?

Not all do tho -

& what most people aren't acknowleding is the responsiblity & extra
work these execs. have & do.
My husband knows many business owners & execs - the work
load they have far surpasses the employees who punch in
& out & leaves the job there. & most owners have had to risk
their home, possessions/wealth to get their business started -
many of us would never risk that to start a business.
We get jealous of rich gamblers - but they take the risks we won't &
it pays off for them. So they deserve to win that $$.

& the execs often take work home & work on weekends; alot of them work many more hours than regular employees.

We're getting this mentality like execs are "evil" people who lounge
around all day, eat caviar for lunch & go on vacations becuz some have gotten greedy & unethical. Maybe some do - - but I don't believe
the majority do.

I think this is how class warfare starts - as if people aren't supposed to make more money than others & if they do, they're fat & lazy, do nothing
& dont' deserve to make more.

The bottom line is, when the Govt. starts regulating salary of
companies, you have a serious problem started & a good first
step in drastic socialistic activity. I wouldn't be worried about
that so much if our Govt. didn't have the CRAP record it has
on balancing budgets & running this country financially!
What will they regulate next?

& again, we cannot ignore that while they regulate businesses,
THEY DON'T REGULATE THEMSELVES equally. They're hypocrits.
Politicians keep their pay raises coming, their jet planes, their body gaurds, limo's, drivers & perks & vacations & benefits & pensions -

We have to weigh out all the facts in this & ask why one is being
penalized when the policians are doing the same on our hard
earned money.

 

[Nadiine]

Yeah right give Obama another 6 months our flag will be red with a hammer and a sicle on it.

(wait, that isn't funny is it)

:o

 

[CyberPaladin]

I do consider...if companies take Government money...they should be on Government restriction...Just as...if the Government takes the peoples money...they should be on restriction as well...spend it in the best interest of the people...not themselves.

While I do consider corporate greed and corruption needs to be addressed...

...first and foremost Government greed and corruption should be addressed...and we shouldn't forget...sometimes the two go hand in hand.

Trust me I'm as upset as anyone about government coruption. I believe that retreat that congress went on to that spa is one most rediculous things I have ever seen. However it's always be pulling teeth to get even a meaningless gesture from the Government on regulating itself.

 

[Cris413]

Hubby and I watched Left Behind: The movie last night.

What first came to mind is…Kirk Cameron is a really, really bad actor….

…and desperation will lead people to make some really bad decisions to raise up Government officials to solve the world’s problems.

It was interesting to watch the bankers move behind the scenes to control government…and the government using the bankers to supply the funds to power them….and in the end…the puppeteers became the puppets.

Trying to reign in greed and corruption is basically like trying to reign in evil itself and none of it will be resolved until the Lord returns and resolves it.


...and yes...I know Left Behind is just a movie...

 

[Albion]

I guess I'm the only one here that I think that it's a good move to cap executives salaries.

The real issue with this matter is seldom mentioned.

The TARP monies were given, as eveyone acknowledges, without strings. For Obama now to dictate salaries is an unjustified usurpation of other people's rights, if not downright unConstitutional. Had it been part of the bailout originally, that would of course be a different matter.

That he would even think he has the right to issue decrees on what private corporations should do in these matters is shocking. Several large corporations have said that they will give the money back pronto. They'd rather do that than be told how to run their companies by what amounts to a self-appointed dictator.

The fact that Obama's Hugo Chavez mentality--or the notion that if you win the election there is no longer a Constitution--also shows the determination of the media to make "the Messiah" succeed, come what may.

 

[MrJim]

The real issue with this matter is seldom mentioned.

The TARP monies were given, as eveyone acknowledges, without strings. For Obama now to dictate salaries is an unjustified usurpation of other people's rights, if not downright unConstitutional. That he would even think he has the right to issue decrees on what private corporations should do in these matters is shocking.

Several large corporations have said that they will give the money back pronto. They'd rather do that than be told how to run their companies by what amounts to a self-appointed dictator.

The fact that Obama's Hugo Chavez mentality--or the notion that if you win the election there is no longer a Constitution--also shows the determination of the media to make "the Messiah" succeed, come what may.

I guess I'm the only one here that I think that it's a good move to cap executives salaries. Although I would like to see similar legislation with politicians salaries I think its a good idea to curve the constant abuses and the uneven distribution of wealth. While the people on top make millions your regular workers makes but near chunk change. Not to mention executives have become extremely irresponsible, they leave companies broken and run with millions while workers are left without a job.

BTW the US is not a purely capitalistic society were a mixed economy. I think some social aspects are a good thing in regards with protecting the people that doesn't mean we are communists but protect the people down below.

Gov't should have had some strings attached to this stuff if they wanted to make rules. It's easy to point at the rich guy and say "get 'em", how long before the gov't is dictating how much average Joe should own or where to spend?

It is fun to watch~wonder if things are really going to melt down to full economic collapse-it was always one of the plausible scenerios amongst the survivalist types

 

[CyberPaladin]

If we do endup socialist state because of this bailout it really is these corp. execs fault they painted the government into a corner when they started doing spa retreats and buying new jets after recieving money to continue to operate.
I have nothing against execs successful companies living luxourus lifestyle I do have a problem with a private corporation tax dollars because to help keep them a float and then going throwing money away on some over priced redecoration of new office, a jet, bonsus in millions ect.
Albion also just a quick note restrictions apply only new money not money that has already been given.

 

[Albion]

Gov't should have had some strings attached to this stuff if they wanted to make rules. It's easy to point at the rich guy and say "get 'em", how long before the gov't is dictating how much average Joe should own or where to spend?

Exactly.

 

[Albion]

I have nothing against execs successful companies living luxourus lifestyle I do have a problem with a private corporation tax dollars because to help keep them a float and then going throwing money away on some over priced redecoration of new office, a jet, bonsus in millions ect.
Albion also just a quick note restrictions apply only new money not money that has already been given.

That's a relief, if true. However, it was reported a day or two ago that one of the leading financials decided to return the money received rather than acquiesce to the President dictating salaries to them. If what you say here were true, this would make no sense since they would not have received any such money.

It probably also means that few salary caps are going to be put in place, although it was a good photo op for Obama. It's already being pointed out that execs will not stay with a company that can't pay them and will move to other companies. I'm not sure how that will help the companies losing them to be "stimulated."

 

[CyberPaladin]

That's a relief, if true. But it probably means that few salary caps are going to be put in place and Obama was mainly grandstanding, huh? It's already being pointed out that execs will not stay with a company that can't pay them and will move to other companies. I'm not sure how that will help the companies losing them to be "stimulated."

Well I always thought this was more symbolic anyways afterall depending on how the new rules define top execs it could effect only half dozen even in a large company. I think it's more about sending the message to these companies that if they want the govt. to keep helping stop spending money like it's water on perks.