Pyramids and the flood

[Job 33:6]

I believe there are alot of accounts in different cultures which lead back.

I to believe the firmament is a solid thing, only in this, I believe it is the iron crust of the earth that separates the water from the waters below from the waters above, it is these waters which Moses describes in Gen 7:
Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

which showed the waters of the flood came from two sources. the sky, and the deep.

it also shows these fountains did not stop until Gen 8: 2 which it sounds like 152 days they continually burst through (that's alot of water) which shows this was not just a heavy rain storm. this was something much more powerful. And that is why, As Peter said, the world that existed before the event perished. Nothing could have survived..

Yea sure. So, historically, ancient peoples described the sky as solid. And not that there was a dome that broke into pieces and fell. But that it remained above. Even after the flood. Because the Bible continues to talk about it, after the flood as well.

 

[River Jordan]

God, speaking through His chosen instrument (Moses), writing about what only He (God) could have seen or experienced. Yes, God is speaking in the second person, but that doesn't make it any less a first hand account.

That's ridiculous. God told Moses, Moses wrote down what God told him. That's literally the definition of a second hand account.

What is deceptive about that?

Seriously? You really don't understand what's deceptive about creating starlight depicting galaxies, stars, and events that don't actually exist or never happened?

He could also have created fossils, oil fields, coal beds, fully formed diamonds, etc. already in the Earth for us to find. And we think they had to have been formed after the world was made. That is the same as an author writing about a fictitious world (Tolkien for example), and his story focuses on certain events, but he gives the world a history, and a living environment from which his story grows. This is not deceptive, but good (I dare say, exemplary) work.

That's just bizarre. You're effectively painting a picture of God doing a lot to give a very, very false impression of reality.

Plus as I noted, none of that is in scripture and is just something you made up. You're free to believe it of course, but no one else is obligated to believe your personal made up scenarios.

 

[River Jordan]

Granted, He has unlimited power, and very well could have created the stars at the end of the light that He created between them and us. But why waste that power if the world He created were only going to be around for a mere 10,000 years? Why create anything more than 10,000 light-years worth of light history? But then again, why create the stars at all, since they do not really impact life on Earth for anything other than navigation and a very minor amount of light.

So you really believe that when I look through my telescope and see a galaxy, it's not really there and is just an illusion created by God?

Nope, I can't go along with that at all.

 

[River Jordan]

yawn.

I am done with this, Good day sir.

when your ready to discuss something like an adult. come talk to me. you should take a lesson from Job there. he is not mocking or attacking, he just states his view. like I do.

and I am sure even if we do not agree in the end,, It will still be more civil

All you're doing is repeating the same pattern. I hope one day you find a way to do better than this.

 

[Doug Brents]

That's ridiculous. God told Moses, Moses wrote down what God told him. That's literally the definition of a second hand account.

No, it is not. In court, an eyewitness who speaks through a translator is still considered a first hand account, even though it is not the actual eyewitness who is speaking so the jury can understand it.

God is not speaking to Moses (or any of the other writers of Scripture) and then them writing their own words down based on what they feel or think about what He said. They are writing His very words. But God is speaking in the second person through the writer. It is still a first hand account.

Seriously? You really don't understand what's deceptive about creating starlight depicting galaxies, stars, and events that don't actually exist or never happened?

No, I don't see it as deceptive. Scripture says God created lights, not the physical stars themselves. It is only the light from them that we can see, so the bodies that would have made that light do not have to have ever existed.

That's just bizarre. You're effectively painting a picture of God doing a lot to give a very, very false impression of reality.

Plus as I noted, none of that is in scripture and is just something you made up. You're free to believe it of course, but no one else is obligated to believe your personal made up scenarios.

I agree, no one else has to believe these things (some of them I don't even believe, they are simply food for thought), since we cannot know either way.

So you really believe that when I look through my telescope and see a galaxy, it's not really there and is just an illusion created by God?

No, this is 100% hypothetical. There is no way to ever know one way or the other. We will never be able to get to any other star, and report back the findings. The world may end before we even send someone, let alone before they get back (plus, it would be over 300 generations each way (assuming a 6000 year trip (at current technological speed) and 20 year generations). So it would take longer than the world has existed already to get there, and that long again to get back.

 

[Job 33:6]

That's ridiculous. God told Moses, Moses wrote down what God told him. That's literally the definition of a second hand account.

Well, unless Moses passed out unconscious, and while on the ground, his hand started magically writing things down. And then when Moses woke up, he looked over and said "oh wow! How did I write that!"

Haven't you read the book of Mormon and the holy Quran before? I mean come on, keep up. That's how revelation is done.

 

[River Jordan]

No, it is not. In court, an eyewitness who speaks through a translator is still considered a first hand account, even though it is not the actual eyewitness who is speaking so the jury can understand it.

Now you're just making more things up, this time where Moses was nothing more than a translator.

God is not speaking to Moses (or any of the other writers of Scripture) and then them writing their own words down based on what they feel or think about what He said. They are writing His very words. But God is speaking in the second person through the writer. It is still a first hand account.

Like before, you're free to believe your own made up scenarios, but no one else is obligated to go along with them.

No, I don't see it as deceptive.

Well that's just really, really weird to me.

Scripture says God created lights, not the physical stars themselves. It is only the light from them that we can see, so the bodies that would have made that light do not have to have ever existed.

Scripture is full of mentions of the stars, and not once does it ever say they don't actually exist. That's just your own made up scenario.

I agree, no one else has to believe these things (some of them I don't even believe, they are simply food for thought), since we cannot know either way.

That's good.

No, this is 100% hypothetical. There is no way to ever know one way or the other. We will never be able to get to any other star, and report back the findings. The world may end before we even send someone, let alone before they get back (plus, it would be over 300 generations each way (assuming a 6000 year trip (at current technological speed) and 20 year generations). So it would take longer than the world has existed already to get there, and that long again to get back.

Thanks for sharing your beliefs.

 

[River Jordan]

Well, unless Moses passed out unconscious, and while on the ground, his hand started magically writing things down. And then when Moses woke up, he looked over and said "oh wow! How did I write that!"

Haven't you read the book of Mormon and the holy Quran before? I mean come on, keep up. That's how revelation is done.

Kinda makes you wonder why God would choose Moses to do that. He could've picked any random person and gotten the same result.

 

[David Lamb]

Ugh. The evolution of new species has been observed many times; it's called speciation. Chromosome counts do change in one generation; it's called polyploidy.

I know that by cross-breeding, new breeds of dog, sweet peas, etc arise. When you say that the evolution of new species has been observed many times, do you mean something like whales supposedly evolving from walking land mammals, or bats supposedly evolving from flightless tree-dwelling mammals?

 

[David Lamb]

the pyramids were made by the sons of noah, who were scattered to egypt after the languages were confused. which is long after the flood.

they would not have survived the flood.

What is your basis for saying that Shem, Ham and Japheth build the pyramids?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yea sure. So, historically, ancient peoples described the sky as solid. And not that there was a dome that broke into pieces and fell. But that it remained above. Even after the flood. Because the Bible continues to talk about it, after the flood as well.

I do not think the dome is as clear today. Thats why lifespans dwindled. And most likely why dinosours died off completely (well they have not died off completely) One thing we know is rain was not needed pre flood if we believe the words of scripture. That shows a hugely different atmospheric pattern pre-flood, the canopy pre floods must have been larger, provided more of a greenhouse affect. And let in much less radiation from the son. I highly doubt there were any deserts pre flood. Like the word says, the world that was perished. It ceased to exist. Noah and his family are the only ones who knew what it was like. And they did nto tell us. Although I am sure there were stories. And hence where we get these stories across cultures that seem to be talking of the same thing.. Amazingly, a whole earth flood is one of those things spoken of..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well, unless Moses passed out unconscious, and while on the ground, his hand started magically writing things down. And then when Moses woke up, he looked over and said "oh wow! How did I write that!"

Haven't you read the book of Mormon and the holy Quran before? I mean come on, keep up. That's how revelation is done.

lol.

God said all scripture is God breathed.

God told moses what to write, and he wrote it.

Moses wrote down what God told him, remember, Moses was not there pre flood. He could only know what God told him.

I find it amazing people think the word of God is Not Gods words. I mean it is called the logos for a reason right?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What is your basis for saying that Shem, Ham and Japheth build the pyramids?

I did not say this, I am sorry that my words have confuted people

the term sons of someone does not mean literal sons.It can means the descendents of. Everyone who lived post flood would have come from Noah, the father of all post flood.

Israel has been called the sons of abraham.

 

[Job 33:6]

I do not think the dome is as clear today. Thats why lifespans dwindled. And most likely why dinosours died off completely (well they have not died off completely) One thing we know is rain was not needed pre flood if we believe the words of scripture. That shows a hugely different atmospheric pattern pre-flood, the canopy pre floods must have been larger, provided more of a greenhouse affect. And let in much less radiation from the son. I highly doubt there were any deserts pre flood. Like the word says, the world that was perished. It ceased to exist. Noah and his family are the only ones who knew what it was like. And they did nto tell us. Although I am sure there were stories. And hence where we get these stories across cultures that seem to be talking of the same thing.. Amazingly, a whole earth flood is one of those things spoken of..

That's an important distinction. In the Bible, the dome never went anywhere. In fact, the Psalmist identifies it as something that God put in place "forever". Ancient literature suggests that it is still there today. If you've walked outside on a sunny day with a bright blue sky, you have witnessed "the waters above".

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place forever and ever, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:4‭-‬6

 

[Job 33:6]

lol.

God said all scripture is God breathed.

God told moses what to write, and he wrote it.

Moses wrote down what God told him, remember, Moses was not there pre flood. He could only know what God told him.

I find it amazing people think the word of God is Not Gods words. I mean it is called the logos for a reason right?

You think that Moses would have to be present, pre-flood, to be able to write about it with his own words?

Isn't this the crux of the issue though? If you think about it, it is actually possible for Moses to do this. To write about the flood, using his own context.

For example, think about Adam. Where does Adam's name come from? What are the origins of that name?

 

[River Jordan]

I know that by cross-breeding, new breeds of dog, sweet peas, etc arise. When you say that the evolution of new species has been observed many times, do you mean something like whales supposedly evolving from walking land mammals, or bats supposedly evolving from flightless tree-dwelling mammals?

It's important to remember the taxonomic classification system we learned in school.

"Whale" and "bat" are closer to the level of Order, with multiple Families, Genera, and Species within.

So if we were to see speciation in whales or bats, it would be a new species within a whale Genus or a new species within a bat Genus.

 

[River Jordan]

I do not think the dome is as clear today. Thats why lifespans dwindled. And most likely why dinosours died off completely (well they have not died off completely) One thing we know is rain was not needed pre flood if we believe the words of scripture. That shows a hugely different atmospheric pattern pre-flood, the canopy pre floods must have been larger, provided more of a greenhouse affect. And let in much less radiation from the son. I highly doubt there were any deserts pre flood. Like the word says, the world that was perished. It ceased to exist. Noah and his family are the only ones who knew what it was like. And they did nto tell us. Although I am sure there were stories. And hence where we get these stories across cultures that seem to be talking of the same thing.. Amazingly, a whole earth flood is one of those things spoken of..

FYI, the "vapor canopy" argument is rife with so many problems even Answers in Genesis recommends creationists not use it.

The Collapse of the Canopy Model

Why does AiG suggest not using the vapor canopy model? Bodie Hodge, AiG–U.S., explains why the model fails biblically and scientifically.

answersingenesis.org

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's an important distinction. In the Bible, the dome never went anywhere. In fact, the Psalmist identifies it as something that God put in place "forever". Ancient literature suggests that it is still there today. If you've walked outside on a sunny day with a bright blue sky, you have witnessed "the waters above".

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place forever and ever, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:4‭-‬6

Yes it is still there I never denied that

It is just not as it was. It is different. That’s why we need rain today

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You think that Moses would have to be present, pre-flood, to be able to write about it with his own words?

Isn't this the crux of the issue though? If you think about it, it is actually possible for Moses to do this. To write about the flood, using his own context.

For example, think about Adam. Where does Adam's name come from? What are the origins of that name?

Moses was born how many years after the flood?

If you do not believe god breathed the words of Moses how can you believe scripture?

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes it is still there I never denied that

It is just not as it was. It is different. That’s why we need rain today

And just to return to my comment from before. If we follow traditional understandings of the topic, it is not any different today than it always was.

Also, personally I live in a region that is getting more and more rain each year, so I'm not sure what you mean with that last comment.