Pyramids and the flood

[Eternally Grateful]

This is sarcasm of course. But think about it, Moses can't write about a global flood if he doesn't even know what a globe is. Moses can't write about the age of the earth, if he doesn't even know what the earth is.

Unless you want to reverse course and assume that God did not actually accommodate the ancient Hebrew-speaking audience, and that God gave them information that would just confuse them, such as the theory of general relativity and heliocentrism. You don't think that anyone would find it confusing that they didn't fall off the earth if it were spinning and flying through space at thousands of miles per hour?

You see? @Eternally Grateful.

And so, what most mainline Christians do is, we say exactly what you said. "What good would it be?".

Why would God use Hebrew to speak to Moses?

So that he could understand, of course we agree.

Why would God choose words like "humanity" and "life". Because that's who Adam and Eve are. They are representatives of humanity and life. Eve is the mother of all living and Adam represents all of us through sin and through identity as dust, among many other things. These words hold meaning specific to the cultural context of Moses.

God accommodated the story of Genesis to fit the audience so that they would understand it.

And everyone knows this. And so now we can ask, how far does that accommodation go?

Language is one of the easiest concepts for people to understand in terms of accommodation because it's so obvious to us that we are forced to think about it. Of course God would accommodate language.

But what if God accommodated more than just language, to make the Bible understandable?

What if God changed (or better yet, what if God allowed Moses to explain in his own personally selected hebrew words like "Adam and Eve, humanity and life") more than just Adam's name? We don't know what Adam's name originally was. But God accommodated, to a Hebrew concept (humanity) that people would understand in the Hebrew world.

And indeed, upon close study of this subject, it becomes clear that this is precisely what God did with many aspects of Genesis.

An alternative being that rather than a verbal dictation from God, God inspired the Biblical authors, and then the authors used their own language, words, culture etc. to write the story in their context. God isn't switching between half a dozen different languages throughout the Bible. Rather, God is letting human authors write the Bible through their own words and culture.

First god told Moses what to write and he wrote it
Second. Mosesdoes not need to know what it means. He just wrote what he was inspired to write
3rd. You and I do not know what Moses knew.
4th. We do not know if Abraham knew how many days it rained or that he told anyone. Yet God told Moses how many days
5th I am quite positive Noah did not know how the events of the flood took place. god told Moses the fountains of the great deep burst open. Did Moses know what this meant? Does Anyone today? I have heard of two theories. But no one knows yet Moses wrote it down from hear say? No. Because he got a first hand account from God

 

[Job 33:6]

First god told Moses what to write and he wrote it
Second. Mosesdoes not need to know what it means. He just wrote what he was inspired to write
3rd. You and I do not know what Moses knew.
4th. We do not know if Abraham knew how many days it rained or that he told anyone. Yet God told Moses how many days
5th I am quite positive Noah did not know how the events of the flood took place. god told Moses the fountains of the great deep burst open. Did Moses know what this meant? Does Anyone today? I have heard of two theories. But no one knows yet Moses wrote it down from hear say? No. Because he got a first hand account from God

There are lots of problems that arise with this response. Such as, if Moses didn't know that the flood was global, because he didn't know what a globe was, then how would he have explained the story to his audience? Or how would his audience or he himself understood the very book that God gave them?

They wouldn't.

Additionally, we do know what the Israelites believed. We have records throughout history and we have the Bible. Nobody knew about things like heliocentrism or even the spherical shape of the earth back then. Your response goes against all historical records that we have.

Your position suggests that perhaps you yourself understand the Bible better than Moses did because you know of things like the shape of the earth and how the global flood occurred, while Moses did not.

 

[Job 33:6]

I am moving on. Your questions make no sense. And it appears you’re just arguing to argue. I am not going to sit hear and keep saying the same thing over and over and get mocked with the same questions which do not make sense

Once again I was not around when god spoke with adam

Moses was not around

God gave Moses his name

Moses wrote it down

The Hebrew language didn't exist that far back in time. And Adam and Eve, or "humanity and life" in Hebrew or Adama -earth, are all Hebrew words. That's not their original names.

Unless your belief system denies history of the Hebrew language.

 

[Job 33:6]

The Hebrew language didn't exist that far back in time. And Adam and Eve, or "humanity and life" in Hebrew or Adama -earth, are all Hebrew words. That's not their original names.

Unless your belief system denies history of the Hebrew language.

There is also logical inconsistency where God would accommodate to Moses's language, but then wouldn't bother accommodating Moses's science and cosmology (which are far more complicated topics).

 

[Job 33:6]

First god told Moses what to write and he wrote it
Second. Mosesdoes not need to know what it means. He just wrote what he was inspired to write
3rd. You and I do not know what Moses knew.
4th. We do not know if Abraham knew how many days it rained or that he told anyone. Yet God told Moses how many days
5th I am quite positive Noah did not know how the events of the flood took place. god told Moses the fountains of the great deep burst open. Did Moses know what this meant? Does Anyone today? I have heard of two theories. But no one knows yet Moses wrote it down from hear say? No. Because he got a first hand account from God

I don't mean to be argumentative by the way. But let's look at these topics closely.

In the sense that God accommodated language. Do you think that it would be an issue if God didn't do the same in terms of cosmology?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are lots of problems that arise with this response. Such as, if Moses didn't know that the flood was global, because he didn't know what a globe was, then how would he have explained the story to his audience? Or how would his audience or he himself understood the very book that God gave them?

They wouldn't.

Additionally, we do know what the Israelites believed. We have records throughout history and we have the Bible. Nobody knew about things like heliocentrism or even the spherical shape of the earth back then. Your response goes against all historical records that we have.

have you ever taken a dictation where someone tells you what to write and you write those words down

If you have not. People do it all the time

If Moses just told us what he thought then I do not think I would trust it much

But we know that is not what happened

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Hebrew language didn't exist that far back in time. And Adam and Eve, or "humanity and life" in Hebrew or Adama -earth, are all Hebrew words. That's not their original names.

Unless your belief system denies history of the Hebrew language.

It did not have to exist in that time

If I speak Spanish and dictate a Spanish speaking person who does not know English something that happened in Spanish then he does not have to know English I already interpreted it to him

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is also logical inconsistency where God would accommodate to Moses's language, but then wouldn't bother accommodating Moses's science and cosmology (which are far more complicated topics).

I hate to say it bro. But I see no problem with it.

God dictated it to Moses he wrote it. For all we know god explained it to Noah or maybe he understood already. But what is written is from God not Noah’s interpretation

All scripture is god breathed not man breathed

 

[BeyondET]

An olive tree survived? Where do you get this?

A dove brought back a fresh olive leaf to Noah when the water receded.

 

[Job 33:6]

I hate to say it bro. But I see no problem with it.

God dictated it to Moses he wrote it. For all we know god explained it to Noah or maybe he understood already. But what is written is from God not Noah’s interpretation

All scripture is god breathed not man breathed

But that's the thing. All historical records we have, including details in the Bible itself, indicate that cosmology of the isrealites remained the same as it's neighbors. Additionally, there is no evidence within the Bible itself or in any historical record suggesting otherwise.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A dove brought back a fresh olive leaf to Noah when the water receded.

Ok so an olive tree gre back after the flood. As it was reseeded

That’s what Noah waited for. Everything to grow back.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But that's the thing. All historical records we have, including details in the Bible itself, indicate that cosmology of the isrealites remained the same as its neighbors. Additionally, there is no evidence within the Bible itself or in any historical record suggesting otherwise.

Ok if you think so

Moving on

 

[Job 33:6]

It did not have to exist in that time

If I speak Spanish and dictate a Spanish speaking person who does not know English something that happened in Spanish then he does not have to know English I already interpreted it to him

If the original names and language were lost and God used Hebrew equivalents for Moses, doesn’t that mean the original story had to be shaped to fit Moses’ cultural and linguistic context? Why wouldn’t God preserve the original names as part of the record? Doesn’t this suggest that the Genesis account is less about literal details (adam and eves actual original names) and more about conveying theological truths? (Hebrew words, mankind and life assigned to Adam and Eve for theological meaning)"

Here we have Adam, a Hebrew word, being given to Moses, rather than Adams actual original name (whatever that may be).

If Hebrew as a language wasn't around in Adams time, then there is no reason to assume that Adam or Adama or ha-adam etc., a Hebrew word for humanity/ground, even existed in Adams time.

 

[Job 33:6]

Ok if you think so

Moving on

Even within the Bible, descriptions of the universe (e.g., the firmament, waters above and below, and the earth on pillars) align with ancient cosmological beliefs rather than modern scientific understanding. How do you reconcile this with the idea that Genesis is a direct, unaltered account of creation?

No YEC ever actually addresses ancient Israelite cosmology.

 

[Job 33:6]

No YEC ever actually addresses ancient Israelite cosmology.

My concern is that YECs often claim to prioritize honesty about the Bible and tradition, but when faced with evidence or questions that challenge their view—like the JPS translation or the Israelites' cosmology—those points are dismissed without real engagement. That dismissal feels inconsistent with the honesty they claim to uphold.

I’m not trying to be confrontational, but I think these issues deserve more thought. If we’re committed to truth, shouldn’t we engage with these questions instead of moving past them when they get uncomfortable?

When you're ready to talk about the Bible, the rest of us will be here. @Eternally Grateful

 

[Job 33:6]

Ok if you think so

Moving on

And it's not a matter of me thinking so. It's just a matter of historical record. I don't have to speculate, rather it's laid out plainly for me.

 

[River Jordan]

I don't mean to be argumentative by the way. But let's look at these topics closely.

In the sense that God accommodated language. Do you think that it would be an issue if God didn't do the same in terms of cosmology?

That's a really interesting thought and one that I hadn't considered before. If God accommodated Moses' needs by speaking in a language he would understand, why wouldn't God do the same with how He described creation to Moses?

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Job 33:6]

That's a really interesting thought and one that I hadn't considered before. If God accommodated Moses' needs by speaking in a language he would understand, why wouldn't God do the same with how He described creation to Moses?

Thanks for sharing!

Sure. Yea I mean, that's really what the JPS, NRSV, NRSVue, CEB, and I believe possibly the NAB, oh and the BHS, all observe in their translations of Genesis 1:1-3.

It's the whole reason YECs automatically by default have to reject these various translations of the Bible. In accepting them, they'd automatically defeat the entire young earth framework.

It's all about accommodation in the end. At the core of it all in terms of, does the Bible reflect the original context and cosmology of the ancient Israelites. Or is the Bible expressing 21st century science that Moses would not have understood?

And upon examination of historical records, and a review of the Bible itself, most Bible scholars, the vast majority, observe the option of accommodation as making the most sense.

And so it is strange that YECs would talk about accomodation with respect to Hebrew language, but then mysteriously exclude things like Hebrew cosmology or culture, among other things.

 

[Job 33:6]

On the varieties of Bible translations that are defeaters of YECism.

 

[BeyondET]

Ok so an olive tree gre back after the flood. As it was reseeded

That’s what Noah waited for. Everything to grow back.

Where is that in scripture?

There was only seven days at the end of the flood when there was dry land. It might of been just three days, the span is seven days until the dove found the olive leaf.