Putting events in Revelation in chronological order?

[Douggg]

but once Israel makes it unto the Wilderness, this attempt to kill them CEASES RIGHT? Thus the TROUBLES are reduced from Fleeing for ones lives, unto enduring the Wilderness for 1260 Days !!

What the bible says is a time, times, half times. Part of the Jews will flee into the wilderness in time. But there are part who don't, and those are the ones in Revelation 12:14 and in Zechariah 14 in Jerusalem.

 

[Riberra]

And the Wheat (Israel, whom Jesus was SENT UNTO ONLY) is still on the earth for the Second Coming, along with the TARES, meanwhile the Church is Raptured, so they CAN NOT GROW with the Tares until the end can they?

Go and reread the parable of the wheat [good seed] and the tares [evil seed] ,and you will see that they grown in the field TOGETHER until the coming of Jesus who will separate the good seed from the evil seed. ....

The good seed is defined as the CHILDREN of God thus ALL THE BELIEVERS WHO KEEP THE FAITH IN JESUS.

Obviously the good seed [Children of God] are from the Church ..there is no mention that someone from the good seed will be removed before the harvest at the Coming of Jesus.

He that ENDURETH is speaking of enduring in the faith until one dies...The END of ones life.

The point being that it does not matter if the death is caused from natural death or under torture ...as it was the case for the Apostles who have been delivered ...

And Jesus gave the Rapture Ministry to Paul, not Matthew or any other Jews, he gave it unto the Disciple of the Gentiles.

The rapture is only a caught up and gathering of the believers resurrected or if still alive UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS.to meet Jesus in the Air UNTO His Coming....Jesus will send His angels to gather the believers who will rule with Him at Jerusalem during the 1,000 years [Revelation 20:4-6]

But the Rapture IS THERE...Matthew 24:36-51.

Noah and his family have not been taken out of the Earth....Loth and his family have not been taken out of the Earth.

What Matthew 24:36-51 tell us is about the destruction of the wicked unto the Coming of Jesus [Matthew 24:29-31]....Jesus will send His angels to caught up and gather the believers to where Jesus will be ie in the air over the valley of Meggiddo [Armageddon] while Jesus will destroy the wicked [those who have taken the mark]assembled along the armies at Armageddon Revelation 16:14-16...Revelation 19:11-21
Revelation 19:17
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid heaven, Come [and] be gathered together unto the great supper of God; 18 that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses and of them that sit thereon, and the flesh of ALL men, BOTH Free and Bond, and Small and Great.

 

[Choose Wisely]

You guys just don't get Prophecy easily for some reason, maybe that is because you don't put in enough study, or you rely on other peoples "ideas" or traditions of men.

You're right I don't get prophecy easily..... until I learned to just read what it says and then don't make anything up. I used to kind of believe like you but no more. If you read any of my posts, you will find that I believe very little what the masses believe as I think most of it is wrong. However, the good thing is I like to believe exactly what it says without making a bunch of stuff up.

This is not about the END TIMES, I spent over a year studying this chapter in depth and Jesus is not mentioning the end times here, nor is he mentioning the Anti-Christ nor False Prophet as a matter of fact IF YOU PAY ATTENTION, these three mentions of false christs, false prophets and false christs and false prophets are three distinct time periods, and thus Jesus mentions it three separate times, but only once does he mention them doing miracles/wonders and that's in verse 24. Just the facts the Jesus tells the Disciples in verse 9 that they are going to be delivered up to be killed should tell you this is passage you think is END TIMES can not be end times !!

Here's where I differ from most posters. I like to go by what the Bible says without making things up. So you're saying that this is not about END TIMES. Why would it not be about end times? The disciples ask when will these thing be, and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Does Jesus say...ok, I'll tell you.......less than 40 years from now there will not be one stone upon another except for the wailing wall. No, He doesn't say that. He answers their question about when there will not be one stone upon another, when he is coming and the end of the world.....END TIMES.....just like it says.

So where do you make your error in judgment in that first passage Matt. 24:1-6? You make it by not understanding Jesus is talking about the destruction of the Temple, and thus it has to be the first thing he explains unto them. He wants them to know the end is NOT YET...In other Gospels he says its BY AND BY.

Sorry Amigo. Jesus is talking about the the Temple that will not have one stone left upon another. That would have to be the third Temple, the end time Temple.

The Messiah is to come and save Israel from the Fourth Beast/Little Horn according to the Scriptures, everyone knew Rome was the Fourth Beast in Jesus' time as we do today, they just did not know the Little Horn would arise some 2000 odd years later, they expected him 2000 years ago. Thus Jesus wanted his Disciples to understand Zechariah 14 was NOT AT HAND when Rome sacks Jerusalem in 70 AD.....Thus he says THE END IS NOT YET !!

Jesus is not talking about an event less than 40 years away (the destruction of the Temple in 70AD) and then saying......hey....the end is not yet. He is talking about end time events.

Why does he say that? Because Jerusalem gets attacked/sacked when the Anti-Christ Conquers them also, but that is an END TIMES EVENT, that is not here, this is seemingly what confuses you. You think Jesus is sating the end is a few years later, that not it at all, the first mention is the SACKING of Jerusalem and the TEMPLES DESTRUCTION. Thus the end is not yet but by and by.

The Temples destruction is the third Temple when one stone will not be left upon another. There will be no wailing wall.

So you have the Seals as being Matthew chapter 24 1-13-14 when it is not. The Tribulation Period is shown starting in verse 15 and runs through verse 31, the Second Coming.

Matt 24 mirrors the seals..........plain and simple. Let me guess. In all of your studies, you have not figured out that Matt 24 and Mark 13 do not mirror Luke 21.

 

[BABerean2]

The Temples destruction is the third Temple when one stone will not be left upon another. There will be no wailing wall.

Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,

Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.



Luk 23:27 And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.
Luk 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

Luk 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.

Luk 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

Luk 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?



The area now known as the "wailing wall" is the remains of Roman Fort Antonia.

During recent years well-known Israeli archeologist Eli Shukron found a Roman coin underground at the bottom of the "wailing wall" which was dated about 17 AD.
Therefore, it could not be a part of Herod's temple.

During 73 AD the Jewish leader at Masada said the only thing left of Jerusalem was that built by the Romans.

The area now known as the "Temple Mount" is about the same size and shape of other Roman forts built during that time.

See the link below.
The Temple Mount and Fort Antonia

Read the recent book "Temple" by Robert Cornuke.

.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,

Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.



Luk 23:27 And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.
Luk 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

Luk 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.

Luk 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

Luk 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?



The area now known as the "wailing wall" is the remains of Roman Fort Antonia.

During recent years well-known Israeli archeologist Eli Shukron found a Roman coin underground at the bottom of the "wailing wall" which was dated about 17 AD.
Therefore, it could not be a part of Herod's temple.

During 73 AD the Jewish leader at Masada said the only thing left of Jerusalem was that built by the Romans.

The area now known as the "Temple Mount" is about the same size and shape of other Roman forts built during that time.

See the link below.
The Temple Mount and Fort Antonia

Read the recent book "Temple" by Robert Cornuke.

.

LOL. Yeah I've heard this nonsense before. Herod, though he did not finish the wall....no doubt had a large part of it built before his death.
I only need to know one thing........the Jews believe that this is part of the Temple or Temple court. I'm pretty sure they would not be visiting that wall constantly if it was a Roman fort. I have to believe if it was a Roman fort the Jews would want it torn down. Instead they visit and pray constantly. That tells me what the truth is.

 

[BABerean2]

LOL. Yeah I've heard this nonsense before. Herod, though he did not finish the wall....no doubt had a large part of it built before his death.
I only need to know one thing........the Jews believe that this is part of the Temple or Temple court. I'm pretty sure they would not be visiting that wall constantly if it was a Roman fort. I have to believe if it was a Roman fort the Jews would want it torn down. Instead they visit and pray constantly. That tells me what the truth is.

You probably think Mount Sinai is near Saint Catherine's monastery, based on your line of logic, even though Paul says it is in Arabia in Galatians 4:25.

God said the temple was in the city of David.

We do not care what you are "pretty sure" about, because we know all of the Jews were driven from Jerusalem in 70 AD.
Therefore, they were not "constantly" visiting that wall.

The only thing more powerful than history and God's Word, is man-made traditions.


.

 

[Revealing Times]

Try as you might, you will not find ONE WORD about the first seal that even hints of evil. John used white 17 times in Revelation: Read through these and see if John uses "white" any other time to represent something evil:

I don't care about the WHITE......I understand a White Horse throughout history has stood for Conquering, did you know that? Thus this Anti-Christ goes forth to Conquer just as Jesus will at the end, BUT....There are key differences. This man on the White Horse has a different crown on his head, there is a different word used for crown in this chapter, it means TWINE or a crown won via a prize being won, whereas the word used in Rev. ch. 19 means a ROYAL CROWN, why do you think they used two different words?

In Rev. 6:3 the Greek word used is STEPHANOS (4735)= TWINE:the wreath or garland which was given as a prize to victors in public games

In Rev. 19:12 the Greek word DIADEMA (1238) = the kingly ornament for the head, the crown. NOTICE: They are many crowns here, not just one as in Plural as in King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

So the first is the FAKE CHRIST Jesus forewarned of in Matt.24:24. He comes to power via Peace, he conquers Jerusalem and much of the Mediterranean Sea Region. That's the White Horse, but Peace is not yet taken from ALL THE WORLD, its just a regional quarrel, then the Red Horse comes to pass, there is a WW3 so to speak for a brief time it would seem. So PEACE IS TAKEN AWAY !!

John used WHITE for the Conquering FAKE CHRIST. Jesus told him to. You like to limit Gods vocabulary and that's a no no. God knows how to use what He needs to to give us a clear picture. A Conquering conqueror that comes in PEACE but its a FAKE PEACE.

 

[Revealing Times]

I agree that "The Remnant" church will flee to the mountains as seen below, as the future abomination of desolation takes place, they will be fed "Manna" as in the days of old. Revelation 12:6

I believe they will be preaching the gospel, as the plagues of the two witnesses takes place.

Times I don't see a church running around scared, as the antichrist is on the christian hunt. I believe Revelation 14:6-12 paints a good picture, as the remnant church and two witnesses are holding the Jerusalem fort for the Lord, "All Plagues" as often as they will.

Men tormented for five months and they wont be able to die? Revelation 9:1-6

Micah 7:12-16 KJV
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.

I see those that FLEE to the Wilderness as being Israel, although they have accepted the Messiah Jesus by this time. But the Remnant Church is not protected, she is killed off, she is the Martyrs under the Alter in the 5th Seal.

I don't believe they will be preaching, nor do I think there is 144,000 who are preachers, I think the 144,000 are those in the WILDERNESS, its just a number of FULLNESS...12 X 12 X 12. All Israel.

The Beast rules for 42 months but he does it through the 21 plagues/judgments.

 

[Revealing Times]

What the bible says is a time, times, half times. Part of the Jews will flee into the wilderness in time. But there are part who don't, and those are the ones in Revelation 12:14 and in Zechariah 14 in Jerusalem.

Yes, but once MANY DIE and the 1/3 are SAVED/Protected by God the GREATEST TROUBLES would be a past event. I know you see my point. SMILE....

 

[Revealing Times]

Go and reread the parable of the wheat [good seed] and the tares [evil seed] ,and you will see that they grown in the field TOGETHER until the coming of Jesus who will separate the good seed from the evil seed. ....

The good seed is defined as the CHILDREN of God thus ALL THE BELIEVERS WHO KEEP THE FAITH IN JESUS.

Obviously the good seed [Children of God] are from the Church ..there is no mention that someone from the good seed will be removed before the harvest at the Coming of Jesus.

That is the point I made, Israel remains on the earth just like the TARES...Thus Israel is the WHEAT, whereas the Church is Raptured.

The point being that it does not matter if the death is caused from natural death or under torture ...as it was the case for the Apostles who have been delivered ...

Well it wouldn't matter, unless someone was trying to infer that these are the end times, then it would matter, because the END might be seen as a Tribulation event, if you catch my drift. THIS IS NOT A END TIME EVENT !!

The rapture is only a caught up and gathering of the believers resurrected or if still alive UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS.to meet Jesus in the Air UNTO His Coming....Jesus will send His angels to gather the believers who will rule with Him at Jerusalem during the 1,000 years [Revelation 20:4-6]

The Second Coming and the Rapture are TWO DIFFERENT EVENTS !! It just is and will not change.

Noah and his family have not been taken out of the Earth....Loth and his family have not been taken out of the Earth.

What Matthew 24:36-51 tell us is about the destruction of the wicked unto the Coming of Jesus [Matthew 24:29-31]....Jesus will send His angels to caught up and gather the believers to where Jesus will be ie in the air over the valley of Meggiddo [Armageddon] while Jesus will destroy the wicked [those who have taken the mark]assembled along the armies at Armageddon Revelation 16:14-16...Revelation 19:11-21
Revelation 19:17
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid heaven, Come [and] be gathered together unto the great supper of God; 18 that ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses and of them that sit thereon, and the flesh of ALL men, BOTH Free and Bond, and Small and Great.

Was the world or end of the age about to come upon the world when Noah lived? No !! God was going to use Noah to repopulate the earth. Once we go to Heaven we have to be given a NEW BODY, our flesh can not enter Heaven. So why would God want to TAKE Noah? He gas to repopulate the earth !!

But as for the Church, her job on earth is finished, we have taken the Gospel unto the ends of the earth, Jesus is going to rule on earth with the Martyred/Beheaded for 1000 years, not with the Church who is Raptured to Heaven and receives new bodies. So why would we remain on the earth?

Matt. 24:29-31 says the ELECT are gathered from the FOUR CORNERS OF HEAVEN !! Not earth. Reread Rev. 19, we come back from Heaven with Jesus on WHITE HORSES to Conquer.

 

[Revealing Times]

You're right I don't get prophecy easily..... until I learned to just read what it says and then don't make anything up. I used to kind of believe like you but no more. If you read any of my posts, you will find that I believe very little what the masses believe as I think most of it is wrong. However, the good thing is I like to believe exactly what it says without making a bunch of stuff up.

You are following MEN'S TRADITIONS, the Holy Spirit will not led us astray. The Holy Word is not for the world to understand, that's for sure.

Here's where I differ from most posters. I like to go by what the Bible without making things up. So you're saying that this is not about END TIMES. Why would it not be about end times? The disciples ask when will these thing be, and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

When will WHAT THINGS BE? Put it together man. (Verse 3 below)

Matt. 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?(Temple Destroyed) and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

So just like I stated brother, the first passage Jesus explains to them is about the TEMPLES DESTRUCTION that he told them about in verse 2. So now do you get why verses 4-6 is about the Temples Destruction brother? That was the very first question, when will these (Temples Destruction) things be. Then the other questions were added, what will be the sign of your coming, and the end of the world? (age). So I sense you forget all about what Jesus told them first, thus you forget what the first question is actually about.

As I studied this and prayed, God gave it to me in a flash, why does God mention false christs, then false prophets, then false Christ and a false prophet that does miracles !! And it came to me, its three different time periods, 70 AD....The Church Age.....and the Tribulation.

Sorry Amigo. Jesus is talking about the the Temple that will not have one stone left upon another. That would have to be the third Temple, the end time Temple.

No, another false flag because you do not understand the wailing wall is not a part of the Temple.

Matt 24 mirrors the seals..........plain and simple. Let me guess. In all of your studies, you have not figured out that Matt 24 and Mark 13 do not mirror Luke 21.

Just not a fact...............study more, pray more.............It will come to you.

 

[Douggg]

Yes, but once MANY DIE and the 1/3 are SAVED/Protected by God the GREATEST TROUBLES would be a past event. I know you see my point. SMILE....

The time of Jacob's troubles and the great tribulation are over when Jesus Returns.

 

[BABerean2]

The time of Jacob's troubles and the great tribulation are over when Jesus Returns.

The "time of Jacob's trouble" ended when the Israelites returned from captivity in Babylon, over 2,000 years ago.

.

 

[tranquil]

I don't put dates on a calendar for any of the following. But this is the framework of the 7 year timeline....................once the 7 years begin.

The two witnesses' 1260 days on the timeline is tied to the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 which takes place before the war in heaven. After the war in heaven is the time, times, half times.

Which would put the 1260 days in the first half of the 7 years.
And the time, times, half times in the second half of the 7 years.

________________________________________________________

The 42 months of the Gentiles treading Jerusalem for 42 months is tied to the 42 months that the beast rules in Revelation 13:5 without being impeded by the two witnesses who will be gone from the earth.

__________________________________________________________

The time, times, half times in Daniel 12:7 is tied to Revelation 12:14 when Satan will be cast down, having great wrath, who persecutes the remanent of the woman for the time, times, half times.

Which also the time, times, half times of Daniel 7:25 is tied to that same period of Daniel 12:7 and Revelation 12:14.

why mangle the time line? the 1st time-frame mentioned is the 42 months... then the 1260 days (which is tied to the 2nd woe & 2 witnesses!

you are mangling the timeline because you have a locked-in, preconceived notion of how it is supposed to go down

the 6th Trumpet war has just occurred in Rev 9

Rev 10
5 And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven 6 and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay, 7 but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.

now it transitions back in time
​

8 Then the voice that I had heard from heaven spoke to me again, saying, “Go, take the scroll that is open in the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land.” 9 So I went to the angel and told him to give me the little scroll. And he said to me, “Take and eat it; it will make your stomach bitter, but in your mouth it will be sweet as honey.” 10 And I took the little scroll from the hand of the angel and ate it. It was sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it my stomach was made bitter. 11 And I was told, “You must again prophesy about many peoples and nations and languages and kings.”​

Rev 11

Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, 2 but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”​

now it has 'caught back up to' where it was before - the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses, end of 2nd woe

you want to say that the 42 months happen after the 2nd woe/ 1260 days, after the 2 witnesses are gone, but who are the saints that are being warred on in Revelation 13?

5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
​

why didn't the saints get removed/ told to come up here? they weren't holy enough to get 'whisked away' with the 2 witnesses?

and please don't say that they are 'tribulation saints' which is offensive on many levels

this is the way it should go:

start the 42 months
great tribulation (during the 7 seals) (during the seals & at the 5th seal, the elect that are killed are taken to heaven to protect them from the 'hour of tribulation'

5 months prior to the end of the 42 months (ie, 7 seals great tribulation is shortened by 5 months.
the elect (that were not killed) come out of the 'great tribulation' & are gathered at the day of the Lord/ start of 7 trumpets/ end 7 seals Revelation 7:13-14

6th Trumpet war starts at the end of the 42 months, this battle leads to the son of perdition/ Lucifer being crowned the messiah who will then confirm the Mosaic covenant on Yom Kippur. This event starts the 2 witnesses 1260 day period/ 2nd woe. Lucifer, the son of perdition, the false prophet will make a statue of his father, the beast during the initial 42 months.

the 'father' would be considered the Jewish messiah, because it is he who will destroy Rome, the harlot of Babylon (one of the prerequisites of being messiah). (in predictive programming terms it is basically Star Wars: Luke (leads the Rebellion/ apostasy) is Lucifer (son of perdition), Darth Vader (Dark Father) (1st in league with the Pope/ Emperor, then kills him so as to be the messiah who destroys Rome). Lucifer will 'honor his father' by making an image of his father as the Jewish messiah during the 1260 days/ 2nd woe. Then later, Lucifer will insist on being worshipped.

the beast from the sea/ mortally head wounded individual from the initial 42 months continues on as 'the beast'. The 'antichrist' dies at the 42 month marker. His kingdom doesn't die. that's why it is 'the beast & false prophet' that get thrown into the lake of fire at the end, it never says 'antichrist & false prophet'.

 

[tranquil]

The time of Jacob's troubles and the great tribulation are over when Jesus Returns.

when the day of the Lord occurs, the great tribulation will be finished - for the elect only. They are gathered. the great tribulation continues on for the people who follow the antichrist & false prophet.

 

[Choose Wisely]

when the day of the Lord occurs, the great tribulation will be finished - for the elect only. They are gathered. the great tribulation continues on for the people who follow the antichrist & false prophet.

The tribulation is over before the gathering. Then the wrath of God begins.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

There is a difference between the tribulation and the wrath of God. There will be a pretribulation rapture for church and a prewrath rapture for the 12 tribes.

 

[BABerean2]

There is a difference between the tribulation and the wrath of God. There will be a pretribulation rapture for church and a prewrath rapture for the 12 tribes.

Yes.

No.

???

Christ returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, for all races of people.
Remember that James addressed his letter to the twelve tribes.

See Revelation 11:15-18, which includes the Second Coming and "the time of the judgment of the dead".

.

 

[R.A.M.]

You're right I don't get prophecy easily..... until I learned to just read what it says and then don't make anything up. I used to kind of believe like you but no more. If you read any of my posts, you will find that I believe very little what the masses believe as I think most of it is wrong. However, the good thing is I like to believe exactly what it says without making a bunch of stuff up.


Here's where I differ from most posters. I like to go by what the Bible says without making things up. So you're saying that this is not about END TIMES. Why would it not be about end times? The disciples ask when will these thing be, and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Does Jesus say...ok, I'll tell you.......less than 40 years from now there will not be one stone upon another except for the wailing wall. No, He doesn't say that. He answers their question about when there will not be one stone upon another, when he is coming and the end of the world.....END TIMES.....just like it says.


Sorry Amigo. Jesus is talking about the the Temple that will not have one stone left upon another. That would have to be the third Temple, the end time Temple.



Jesus is not talking about an event less than 40 years away (the destruction of the Temple in 70AD) and then saying......hey....the end is not yet. He is talking about end time events.


The Temples destruction is the third Temple when one stone will not be left upon another. There will be no wailing wall.





Matt 24 mirrors the seals..........plain and simple. Let me guess. In all of your studies, you have not figured out that Matt 24 and Mark 13 do not mirror Luke 21.

With regard to the Temple, The Word says that it was located in the city of David, which is just outside Bethlehem. The wailing wall sadly is a wall from a Roman building.

There is no stone on top of another stone anywhere in the city of David. This was a more recent discovery. I'll provide a link to the book and a video if I can locate it on youtube.

 

[R.A.M.]

https://www.amazon.com/TEMPLE-Discoveries-Everything-Location-Solomons/dp/193977909X

 

[iamlamad]

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

There is a difference between the tribulation and the wrath of God. There will be a pretribulation rapture for church and a prewrath rapture for the 12 tribes.

This is myth. You quoted the last verse concerning the 6th seal, and THAT is where (and when) God's wrath begins: so every trumpet judgement comes with God's wrath. Indeed, the entire 70th week comes with God's wrath. That is why the 144,000 are sealed, to protect them from the first trumpet judgments, which will be with God's wrath. God is not going to kill 1/3 of planet earth's population without Him being angry!

If you had said pre-vial rapture for the 144,000,. I would not have answered.