Putting events in Revelation in chronological order?

[iamlamad]

Just read it, prayerfully seeking YHVH'S Understanding.
Everything is in place in YHVH'S Divine Order Already, simple.
As seen daily, mankind/men keep messing it all up.

My sentiments exactly: It is ALREADY in the right order!

 

[Riberra]

1.) Matthew 24:1-6 = 70 AD.
2.) Matthew 24:7-13-14 = 2000 year Church Age.
3.) Matthew 24:15-28 = Tribulation Period.
4.) Matthew 24:29-31 = The Second Coming.

We have a Rapture of the Church, then Israel remains on earth until Jesus returns. Israel is thus THE WHEAT and the World is THE TARES.......Thus they grow together until the end.

The tares are those who will take the Mark and who will worship the Beast...during the 42 months reign of the Beast...Revelation 13

The Church however is Raptured.

There is no mention in Matthew 24 that someone will be taken out of the Earth to avoid the Tribulation time.

It say rather that those who will endure to the END will be SAVED.

Matthew 24:13
13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[Douggg]

1.) Matthew 24:1-6 = 70 AD.
2.) Matthew 24:7-13-14 = 2000 year Church Age.
3.) Matthew 24:15-28 = Tribulation Period.
4.) Matthew 24:29-31 = The Second Coming.

I would just make a few adjustments.

2.) Matthew 24:7-13-14 = spreading of the gospel to the nations
3.) Matthew 24:15-28 = Great Tribulation Period.

 

[iamlamad]

The tares are those who will take the Mark and who will worship the Beast...during the 42 months reign of the Beast...Revelation 13


There is no mention in Matthew 24 that someone will be taken out of the Earth to avoid the Tribulation time.

It say rather that those who will endure to the END will be SAVED.

Matthew 24:13
13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

In truth, Jesus was answering Jews about the end of THEIR age; i.e. the 70th week of Daniel. Proof of this is verse 15 and on. Paul got the mystery of the rapture for the Gentile church years after Jesus said these words.

To keep (or get) end time doctrine straight, we have to know WHO a verse is pointed towards: either the Church, Israel, or the Nations. Then we have to consider the timing of what is said.

 

[Riberra]

In truth, Jesus was answering Jews about the end of THEIR age; i.e. the 70th week of Daniel. Proof of this is verse 15 and on. Paul got the mystery of the rapture for the Gentile church years after Jesus said these words.

To keep (or get) end time doctrine straight, we have to know WHO a verse is pointed towards: either the Church, Israel, or the Nations. Then we have to consider the timing of what is said.

The End Of THEIR AGE have happened in 70 AD...when the people of the prince [Titus]who shall come ie (the Roman Army)destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple [Maketh Desolate] and killed 1,2 millions Jews,fulfilling the second part of Daniel 9:27..and also fulfilling Jeremiah 30:7 prophecy about the Time of Jacob Troubles concerning the Jews.

Daniel 9:27
27 And he shall CONFIRM the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease ;and upon the wing of abominations [shall come] one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall [wrath] be poured out upon the desolate.

To resume:
God used the Roman Army to pour out His Wrath upon the Jews who have rejected and killed the Messiah send to them by God TO CONFIRM THE COVENANT that God have made with their fathers Abraham...Isaac ..Jacob...

Jesus who was send by God to CONFIRM THE COVENANT with the Jews ...was killed in the middle of the 70 TH Week....

Daniel 9:27
27 And he shall CONFIRM the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease ;

When Jesus was Cruxified the VEIL in the Temple was torn in two....Matthew 27:51

 

[BABerean2]

God used the Roman Army to pour out His Wrath upon the Jews who have rejected and killed the Messiah send to them by God TO CONFIRM THE COVENANT that God have made with their fathers Abraham...Isaac ..Jacob...

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

.

 

[Riberra]

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

By His Blood and Sacrifice Jesus have made the Old Covenant obsolete ...and caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease ;...in the Middle of the 70TH Week as Prophesied in Daniel 9:27.
When Jesus was Crucified and died on the Cross ,the VEIL in the Temple was torn in two....Matthew 27:51

Question:
What would have happened if the Jews had not Killed Jesus ....and had accepted the Confirmation of the Covenant that God had made with their fathers Abraham...Isaac ..Jacob ?

The HE in Daniel 9:27 Refers to the Messiah [JESUS]....that God had sent to the Jews to CONFIRM THE COVENANT...

Daniel 9:27 KJV
27 And HE shall CONFIRM THE COVENANT with many for one week: and in the midst of the week HE shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease ;

Do we agree that By Killing Jesus ,the Jews have rejected the Covenant ...and thus opened the door for the Gentiles who accept Jesus the Messiah to be grafted into the olive tree and be part of the promises made by God to their fathers; Abraham ...Isaac ..Jacob...?

 

[Douggg]

Do we agree that By Killing Jesus ,the Jews have rejected the Covenant ...and thus opened the door for the Gentiles who accept Jesus the Messiah to be grafted into the olive tree and be part of the promises made by God to their fathers; Abraham ...Isaac ..Jacob...?

Yes, if the Olive tree represents the Kingdom of God - not exclusively Israel.

 

[BABerean2]

The HE in Daniel 9:27 Refers to the Messiah [JESUS]....that God had sent to the Jews to CONFIRM THE COVENANT...

Daniel 9:27 KJV
27 And HE shall CONFIRM THE COVENANT with many for one week: and in the midst of the week HE shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease ;

Do we agree that By Killing Jesus ,the Jews have rejected the Covenant ...and thus opened the door for the Gentiles who accept Jesus the Messiah to be grafted into the olive tree and be part of the promises made by God to their fathers; Abraham ...Isaac ..Jacob...?

The "covenant with many" in Daniel 9:27 is the same New "covenant with many" in Matthew 26:28.

This is confirmed by Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 8:6-13.

We are told in Jeremiah 31:31-34, that the New Covenant would not be like the Sinai Covenant, which Israel had broken.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:


.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Choose Wisely]

There is no mention in Matthew 24 that someone will be taken out of the Earth to avoid the Tribulation time.

It say rather that those who will endure to the END will be SAVED.

Matthew 24:13
13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

What you are seeking starts in Matthew 24 verse 37. It shows believers being taken out of the world before the tribulation. We know that they were eating and drinking until the day that Noah entered the ark. That would tell us that Jesus is coming before the famines in Matthew 24 verse 7.
Matthew 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

 

[iamlamad]

The End Of THEIR AGE have happened in 70 AD...when the people of the prince [Titus]who shall come ie (the Roman Army)destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple [Maketh Desolate] and killed 1,2 millions Jews,fulfilling the second part of Daniel 9:27..and also fulfilling Jeremiah 30:7 prophecy about the Time of Jacob Troubles concerning the Jews.

Daniel 9:27
27 And he shall CONFIRM the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease ;and upon the wing of abominations [shall come] one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall [wrath] be poured out upon the desolate.

To resume:
God used the Roman Army to pour out His Wrath upon the Jews who have rejected and killed the Messiah send to them by God TO CONFIRM THE COVENANT that God have made with their fathers Abraham...Isaac ..Jacob...

Jesus who was send by God to CONFIRM THE COVENANT with the Jews ...was killed in the middle of the 70 TH Week....

Daniel 9:27
27 And he shall CONFIRM the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease ;

When Jesus was Cruxified the VEIL in the Temple was torn in two....Matthew 27:51

First, have you been oblivious to the fact that in 1948 Israel became a nation once again? Don't you understand the only possible way that could have happened was GOD? So your statement, "The End Of THEIR AGE have happened in 70 AD" is completely bogus and a myth.

Next, what WAS "Jacob's trouble?" Was it not that he was tricked into marrying the sister of the woman he loved, and then he had to work an extra 7 years for the one he loved? That is SEVEN years, not 3 1/2. Daniel's 70th week is 7 years: so "Jacob's Trouble" is another title for Daniel's 70th week: a period of 7 years.

Next, your statement "Jesus who was send by God to CONFIRM THE COVENANT with the Jews ...was killed in the middle of the 70 TH Week" is completely bogus and not exactly what is written. You are CHANGING what Daniel wrote. Look:

Daniel wrote, "26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off..." You only imagine he wrote "in the middle of the 70th week." You are changing scripture to fit a theory. WRONG!

Next, did it just go right over your head that EVENTS are written to take place after the 69 weeks but before the 70th week. That is the way Daniel wrote it, but you imagine it differently, again changing the written word to fit a theory. WRONG! the correct way is to leave scripture as written and develop a theory that FITS scripture as written.

Your whole theory here is BOGUS. I suggest you dump it into file 13 and start over finding a scripture that actually fits what is written.

 

[iamlamad]

What did John write first?

the seven stars
or seven stars

the woman\or - a woman
the beast/or -a beast

What possible difference does it make?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[iamlamad]

there shall be 7 weeks
I see this as - the decree of Cyrus went out - 535 BC
the decree was used again by Darius - who died - 486 BC
Now the time of his orders ends - and we have 49 years.

later comes the time of Nehemiah - he goes twice to Jerusalem in the days of Artaxerxes to build
This time ends - 32nd year or so - and now add 62 more weeks.
total - 69 weeks used up of the 70 determined weeks that will finish the transgression
After - 69 weeks - the Messiah is here and dies for our sins - as He had none - He was cut off - for us.
Next we enter a time of the city still stands, the sanctuary, the wall is all found in Jerusalem....but a new determined time will begin - the time determined unto the end of the war. This part does not count as falling in the determined time of the 70 weeks. There is a time of war determined also in this prophecy given by Gabriel. He was letting Daniel know that holy city and sanctuary would not be the one for the end days. It would not be around when the final week of the 70 determined weeks ends. This determined time first of war and desolations would come upon the city and the sanctuary and only after this time of destruction ends - the end of the war - by Titus --can come later the start of the final week. The Messiah will not be the he that confirms the covenant. This he does not confirm the covenant with many until after Titus ends his war and desolations period.

then ----the world waits for the final week to begin
How many hes will desolate it now? Will there be several Babylonian kings that desolate the city? no- he will desolate - till the consummation
he confirms the covenant
he desolates\till the consummation - as in till the time ends that Babylon was given to rule the world -
Jeremiah 25:11 hangs in limbo till this final week ends.
Jeremiah 25:12 will then begin against the land of the Chaldeans - that nation and her king.
Jeremiah goes on to tell that then will come upon what has been prophesied against - all the nations.

I think this is guess work. Or perhaps nit picking. The point most people miss is that the trumpets cannot be sounded until all 7 seals are broken.

Don't ever forget, the seals are sealing a scroll, and that scroll cannot be opened until all 7 seals are broken. Therefore, to say that some trumpet happens in the time of some seal shows us they don't understand the book!

What is written INSIDE the scroll? Everything or most everything from Rev. 8 to the end of the book. Therefore to say that anything

It matters because within Revelation John had to make a mystery section. This section is called - the mystery of God. It ends with the 7th trumpet. None of the vials get poured out during the time of the mystery of God section. John would use the definite article only when the reader is familiar with the subject he is referencing such as -the sun, the moon. The reader has no doubt which ones John is talking about. When he though tells the readers about a new character or thing, he will not use the definite article at first. He will introduce us to the character and then use the definite article when referring to that same one later.

So he saw -seven stars and then later called them - the seven stars.
Applying this pattern to Revelation 8:2 -the seven angels---means that John is referring to angels that he has already told the reader about. This means that the seven trumpets could have been given to this set of angels before this point and now ---after the 7th seal was opened- this same set of angels is showing up again. John could tell us thus about either the past or the future actions of them at this verse. He tells us about their past - which stood before God. not that stand before God
were given seven trumpets - not just then given trumpets to sound\
saw the seven angels which stood before God
/John is using this to identify without a doubt what set of angels has shown up after the 7th seal was opened.

5th seal - all martyrs come in that are to be killed
/including the two witnesses/slain in trumpet 6
6th seal - end of trib events
7th seal seal - saw the seven angels which stood - were given trumpets-and the first angel sounded - and so on and on - even the trumpet when the two witnesses were slain
as in - all past events -
John had to hide things - make the mystery of God as some events were not for his day. After the 7th seal what happens is the used to sound the trumpets angels return in John's view, because they will now as past trumpets angels be the pour out the vials of God's wrath angels.

John identifies the subjects in visions he sees by what they have already done. Same thing takes place in Rev. 21. An angel comes to talk to John. It mentions him having a full vial. John is linking the reader to what this angel was seen doing in the past.

I think this is guess work. Or perhaps nit picking. The point most people miss is that the trumpets cannot be sounded until all 7 seals are broken.

Don't ever forget, the seals are sealing a scroll, and that scroll cannot be opened until all 7 seals are broken. Therefore, to say that some trumpet happens in the time of some seal shows us they don't understand the book!

What is written INSIDE the scroll? Everything or most everything from Rev. 8 to the end of the book. Therefore to say that anything "/including the two witnesses/slain in trumpet 6" cannot be truth, but only human imagination.

But in this quote you compounded your error. The two witnesses will most certainly NOT be slain at the 6th trumpet. That is myth. Yes, the casual reader may assume this, but it is myth. You see, from 11:4 to 11:13 is written as a parenthesis: John is taking us on a side journey down the path of the two witnesses to the end of the week. But in verse 14 John snaps right back to the midpoint of the week.

Always remember, John gives us five parallel paths down the last half of the week:
The 42 months of trampling
The 1260 days of testifying
The 1260 days of fleeing
The 3 1/2 years of protection
The 42 months of authority.

All these for most of the last half of the 7 years will be counting down simultaneously. It is myth that the two witnesses testify in the first half of the week. They begin their testimony 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint and testify until just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ends the week.

Is a "the" important? Yes, it probably is. But understanding the big picture and John's chronology is more important. Does it really matter WHICH angel has a trumpet or a vial? No, not really. The important thing is to understand WHEN whatever angel will sound or pour out.

 

[Choose Wisely]

No you can't match them up, that is just horrible Hermeneutics brother.

1.) Matthew 24:1-6 = 70 AD.
2.) Matthew 24:7-13-14 = 2000 year Church Age.
3.) Matthew 24:15-28 = Tribulation Period.
4.) Matthew 24:29-31 = The Second Coming.

****1.) Matthew 24:1-6 is not about 70AD.......Whatsoever. Matt 24:1-3 is in Jesus time as he is talking to disciples.

****2.) 1st seal - White Horse - False Christ
Matt 24
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

****3.) 2nd seal - Red Horse - Peace taken from the earth
Matt 24
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

****4. ) 3rd seal - Black Horse - Famine
Matt 24
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

****5.) 4th seal - Pale Horse - Death
Matt 24
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

****6.) 5th seal - Souls under the altar that were slain for the word of God and the testimony they held.
Matt 24
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

****7.) 6th seal - Heavenly signs
Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[iamlamad]

****1.) Matthew 24:1-6 is not about 70AD.......Whatsoever. Matt 24:1-3 is in Jesus time as he is talking to disciples.

****2.) 1st seal - White Horse - False Christ
Matt 24
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

****3.) 2nd seal - Red Horse - Peace taken from the earth
Matt 24
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

****4. ) 3rd seal - Black Horse - Famine
Matt 24
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

****5.) 4th seal - Pale Horse - Death
Matt 24
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

****6.) 5th seal - Souls under the altar that were slain for the word of God and the testimony they held.
Matt 24
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

****7.) 6th seal - Heavenly signs
Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

WRONG! You are ignoring Rev. chapters 4 & 5, and ignoring the words of Jesus: "the end is not yet." Therefore your timing is far far off.

You are pulling verses out of their context and coming up with nonsense. Go back and spend TIME on Rev. 4 & 5. Learn the CONTEXT of the first seal, and you will know how far off you are.