Putting events in Revelation in chronological order?

[Andy centek]

He is right about Rev. 16 and Rev. 19 being the same event, at least the 7th Vial and the Marriage Supper battle. Rev. 14 is also the same even where it says the blood comes up to the horses bridles. Rev. 18 is all 21 of Gods Judgments hitting the World (Babylon). So Revelation is not in order.



1. But he doesn't come before the 7th vial. Many say Jesus ad God are not one in spirit but they are.

2. I don't buy the "thief in the night" bit, John took much of Revelation from the Old Testament, so I would imagine he used a lot of Jesus' saying in like manner to insert where he though appropriate. Sine Jesus/God mainly taught Paul about the Rapture, I think John felt like this was the proper place to insert that phrase because Jesus is coming back again. But I think that phrase was meant to show an overall picture of coming tribulation/death/damnation once the Rapture gas happened. In other words the rains will have started once the Rapture happens and there is no turning back. Those in this period will either serve God and die or follow the Anti-Christ.

 

[Andy centek]

You can dream that Jesus will come pre-trib to take you out of the Earth before the tribulation ....that is just not going to happen.

Read Revelation 2 and Revelation 3 who give the command ------to overcome ... ...OVERCOME until you DIE, that mean that nobody will be taken to Heaven while they are alive....

example
Revelation 3:5
5 He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:12-13
12 He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name.

13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

Revelation 21:7-8 [New Earth ---New Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven]
7 He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part [shall be] in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

 

[Andy centek]

Revealingtimes:

You said that no one was taken to heaven while alive. Was John dead when He was taken up into heaven?
Was Paul dreaming when He said:

 

[Andy centek]

Revealingtimes:

You said that no one was taken to heaven while alive. Was John dead when He was taken up into heaven?
Was Paul dreaming when He said:

 

[Andy centek]

Revealingtimes:

Was Paul talking about being a dead man when He said: I knew a man taken into the third heaven?
Did John say He was dead when He was taken up into heaven? NO! They were alive.

Andy Centek

 

[1stcenturylady]

Could you provide an example of what you are getting at here?

This is from page one and I haven't read any further yet, so this may already been answered, but Revelation 2 and 3 are the 7 church ages before the return of Christ. The last four ages overlap to the end and are still here. They are Thyatira, the Catholic and EO Church which is the longest age; then Sardis, the churches out of the Reformation which stressed faith alone; then Philadelphia, the Bible study churches which stressed holiness; then Laodecia which are nominal Christians that are in name only and unsaved.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Revealingtimes:

Was Paul talking about being a dead man when He said: I knew a man taken into the third heaven?
Did John say He was dead when He was taken up into heaven? NO! They were alive.

Andy Centek

When was John taken into heaven?

 

[Choose Wisely]

BAB2, you are copying and pasting the same post over and over into every thread, spamming the forum.

Nothing new.......he has been doing it for years......no matter how many times he is proven wrong, he just keeps copying and pasting the same nonsense over and over.

 

[iamlamad]

Those days, what exactly is he referring to I have to wonder. The Antichrist is on the rampage and he wants to destroy Israel. Those days, are the period immediately following the abomination that causes desolation and God does shorten those days, the armies of the Antichrist fall into a pit. The Great tribulation can be a lot worse but Israel is protected while they sort out what has just happened. The armies of the Antichrist are on a rampage and would very happily kill everybody they could get their hands on.

They would destroy everyone including one another but God intervenes. It is prolonged until the kings of the east finally join him and they are destroyed at the battle of Armageddon, which is the Day of the Lord.

I don't think so. If we follow John, some unknown time after the abomination the false prophet shows up. And it will be he who will convince the people to erect an image and then force people to worship this image or lose their head. And then they create and enforce the mark. I don't therefore think the mark will be enforced until months after the abomination. Notice that John did not begin to see the beheaded show up in heaven until chapter 15. In my opinion, "those days" of "great tribulation" according to Jesus will not come until the image and mark are established.

I am not saying life will be a picnic before then. But the real pressure will not be applied until people are extremely thisty and there is no water fit to drink. Water then must be purchased, but cannot be without the mark. then is when great pressure comes.

I will agree that the battle of Armageddon will be included in "the day of the Lord, but John tells us that the Day of His wrath begins way back at the 6th seal, making the entire 70th week a part of God's wrath and a part of the DAY.

 

[iamlamad]

Nothing new.......he has been doing it for years......no matter how many times he is proven wrong, he just keeps copying and pasting the same nonsense over and over.

Well said!

 

[iamlamad]

When was John taken into heaven?

Take a guess. History suggests around 95 AD

 

[iamlamad]

You take Luke 21:36 out of its context ....when placed in context you get a very different picture....there is no mention that someone will be taken out of the the Earth.

So wathever the part that concerned the apostles themselves being delivered to be killed under torture ...or the other part concerning the times of of great tribulation when the Christians will be delivered under the hands of the Beast/AC [Revelation 13] before the Coming of Jesus ....God's command is given in verse 19 In your patience [endurance in Faith]possess ye your souls.

Luke 21
16 But ye shall be delivered up even by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolk, and friends; and [some] of you shall they cause to be put to death.

17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The Day mentioned in Verse 34 is the Day of the Coming of Jesus to destroy the sinners [all those who will have taken the mark ]who will be gathered at Armageddon along the armies of the World ----->Revelation 16:15-16 --- Revelation 19:11-21

-------------------------------
Hint:
If Jesus had the intention to take someone out of the Earth to avoid tribulation be it small or great He would not have said:
John 17:15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

For every end time verse, we must ask WHOM it is directed towards, and WHEN it is pertinent. Does God take a believer to heaven the moment they are born again? No, God leaves them and does not take them out of the world.

You wish to see the escape plan?

1 thes. 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

Now, what does this mean, "we should live together with Him? What is his meaning of "obtaining salvation?"

IN CONTEXT, this is the meaning: "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. "

Those living in darkness get "sudden destruction" and must remain on earth for the days of His wrath and the days of GT. But those who are in Christ will be salvation [raptured] and so shall we ever be with him.

Therefore, when Luke wrote, "6 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”" I believe He was speaking of the very same escape plan that Paul wrote of.

What are "all these things?"
"that Day come on you unexpectedly"
"this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place."
"there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars"
"on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity"
"men’s hearts failing them from fear "
"Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."
"they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations"
"there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. "
"woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!"
"these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."

God has planned a way of escape for all these things. Believe it and one can escape. Deny it and one must remain behind and live through all these things.

 

[Choose Wisely]

See post #318 about what you have missed by taking Luke 21:36 out of its original context.

I read post 318 and am not taking anything out of context. There is a pretribulation rapture for the church. Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood.......just like the word says. As for the day of the Lord. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. And so it will be when the 12 tribes are raptured pre wrath.

In another post you wanted the Biblical PROOF that Jesus will not remove the believers out of the Earth to avoid tribulation ----->be it small or Great.
Here it is
John 17:15
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Let me get this straight. The verse you are posting is about Jesus sending the disciples into the world to witness to the lost world. And you use this scripture as an example of what God will do in the end times.

Uh........Uh.......maybe, just maybe you have a huge context problem. You can't be serious with this.

Luke 21:16-19 about tribulation time -then- ---->or future.

16 But ye shall be delivered up even by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolk, and friends; and [some] of you shall they cause to be put to death.

17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

19 In your patience [endurance in Faith] possess ye your SOULS.

These verses are about Israel in 70AD

Same wording that Matthew 24:9-13 about the End Times or any tribulation time.
Matthew 24:9-13
9 Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many stumble, and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray.

12 And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold.

13 But he that ENDURETH TO THE END, the same shall be saved.

These verses are about Israel in the future. He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.........Talking about Israel.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Take a guess. History suggests around 95 AD

Who wrote about it? In other words, where is it written?

 

[mark kennedy]

Who wrote about it? In other words, where is it written?

"From Ephesus he was ordered to be sent to Rome, where it is affirmed he was cast into a cauldron of boiling oil. He escaped by miracle, without injury. Domitian afterwards banished him to the Isle of Patmos, where he wrote the Book of Revelation. Nerva, the successor of Domitian, recalled him. He was the only apostle who escaped a violent death" (Foxe's Book of Martyrs)
​

We don't know for sure when, but according to church tradition he died of natural causes.

 

[Revealing Times]

Revealingtimes:

Was Paul talking about being a dead man when He said: I knew a man taken into the third heaven?
Did John say He was dead when He was taken up into heaven? NO! They were alive.

Andy Centek

They were alive but they were NOT IN HEAVEN !! It was a Vision. Paul says clearly he doesn't know if he went in body or spirit. Thus he could have seen a vision of the same.

2 Corinthians 12:1 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to gain, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught ip to the third heaven. Whether it was in body or out of it I do not know, but God knows 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or out of it I do not know, but God knows—…

So more than likely it was a vision, or else they were taken in the Spirit up to Heaven.

NO FLESH can enter Heaven. Read 1 Corinthians 15.

I don't really remember arguing that they didn't go to heaven, if so I am speaking of in the flesh.

John stated he was in the Spirit on the Lords Day, I unlike many don't think that is Sunday, I think he is referring to the Great and TERRIBLE Day of the Lord. A 3.5 Year period of Gods Wrath via plagues.

 

[Riberra]

For every end time verse, we must ask WHOM it is directed towards, and WHEN it is pertinent. Does God take a believer to heaven the moment they are born again? No, God leaves them and does not take them out of the world.

You wish to see the escape plan?

1 thes. 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

Now, what does this mean, "we should live together with Him? What is his meaning of "obtaining salvation?"

-Salvation does NOT mean that you will be taken to Heaven while you are alive.

-Salvation mean that you will not end into the lake of fire like the unrepentant sinners [Revelation 20:15].

Those living in darkness get "sudden destruction"

Yes , unto His coming Jesus will destroy the sinners [all those with the mark of the Beast]--->will be gathered at Armageddon along the armies of the World....Revelation 16:15-16 ----Revelation 19:11-21

Therefore, when Luke wrote, "6 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”" I believe He was speaking of the very same escape plan that Paul wrote of.

What are "all these things?"
"that Day come on you unexpectedly"

That DAY of sudden destruction IS The Day Of THE Coming of Jesus as a thief [Revelation 16:15-16] to destroy the sinners [all those who will have taken the mark and have worshiped the Beast/AC]....will be gathered at Armageddon along the armies of the World [Revelation 19:11-21].

Revelation 16:15-16
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that WATCHED, and keepeth his garments, lest he walked naked, and they see his shame. 16 And they gathered them together into the place which is called in Hebrew Har-magedon.
17 And the seventh poured out his bowl upon the air; and there came forth a great voice out of the temple, from the throne, saying, It is done:

 

[1stcenturylady]

"From Ephesus he was ordered to be sent to Rome, where it is affirmed he was cast into a cauldron of boiling oil. He escaped by miracle, without injury. Domitian afterwards banished him to the Isle of Patmos, where he wrote the Book of Revelation. Nerva, the successor of Domitian, recalled him. He was the only apostle who escaped a violent death" (Foxe's Book of Martyrs)
​

We don't know for sure when, but according to church tradition he died of natural causes.

That I knew. I thought someone said, God took him to heaven (alive).

 

[mark kennedy]

That I knew. I thought someone said, God took him to heaven (alive).

No, John was the apostle that died of natural causes. Always thought that had something to do with this:

"If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me." (John 21:22)
​

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[1stcenturylady]

No, John was the apostle that died of natural causes. Always thought that had something to do with this:

"If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me." (John 21:22)
​

Grace and peace,
Mark

I was questioning #325 who wrote:

Revealingtimes:

Was Paul talking about being a dead man when He said: I knew a man taken into the third heaven?
Did John say He was dead when He was taken up into heaven? NO! They were alive.

Andy Centek