Put Away the Flags

[new_wine]

The US does not follow the commands of The King.

HECK NO!

Read the Declaration of Independence. Our Founding Fathers declared and sought the authority and sanction of God that we be freed from the tyranny of those who would enslave us.

It is as true today as it was then.

America is a blessed nation, blessed by God, allowed to be in existence by God. The gospel of Jesus goes into all the world from this nation. God uses this nation for His will and purpose.

We, the people, must worship and obey His will, rules and laws to continue in our Divine blessings. The fact that we have immoral, dishonest, and dishonorable leaders is a testament to our own lack of resolve in holding on to the founding principles, firm in Christianity and the Judeo-Christian beliefs.

We are to love God with all our heart and mind and love our neighbor as ourselves, having justice and freedom as our standard.
That is the command of Jesus and the foundation and very heart of America.

 

[Shesapeach]

It has been over a year since the passing of Howard Zinn, but let us again this July 4th recall his wise admonitions against the evils of nationalism. The idolatry toward the flag and the murderous empire it represents is especially shocking coming from self-proclaimed Christians in America.

Put away the flags | The Progressive

No, Peach, the reactions to the OP did nothing but tear down and divide.

I see your words in the OP. "Idolatry toward the flag", "murderous empire", "evils of nationalism", your condescension toward Christians in America...

And then the article:

"Our citizenry has been brought up to see our nation as different from others, an exception in the world, uniquely moral, expanding into other lands in order to bring civilization, liberty, democracy.
That self-deception started early."


Its nothing but propaganda of the left and hatred of America as well as distortions of history and rejection of rationality.

 

[Shesapeach]

The US does not follow the commands of The King.

and yet the Constitutional attorney/Constitutional Law Professor in the White House is governing by Executive Order if he can't get his agenda through Congress.

That is the action of a King, not the actions of someone who knows enough about the Constitution to follow it, choosing instead to go around it, to heck with the oath he swore.

Circumventing the Congress and the Constitution is tyranny and treason. He might as well be King George.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

American nationalism is based on worship at the altars of War and Corporatism. And yes, allegiance to whomever holds political power at the time, as we saw in the reactions to any criticism of Bush and his wars.

Wars can be fought in the name of internationalism just as easily as they can be fought in the name of nationalism. More easily, really, because nationalism requires that war be fought for genuine national interest, while internationalism does not.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Why does everyone want the person who wrote the OP to forcible take your flag? I saw no call for anti-nationalists to do that in the actual post. It was a warning about the idol of nationalism that a lot of blood has been split over ever sense the idea caught on a few centuries ago. I think that response is the result of a fear mechanism "if people don't like nationalism they might want steal my flag!" There was no call for that. Why not calm down. No need to grap your rifle to protect something that wasn't threatened in the first place.

 

[EdwinWillers]

And more of the same.

I'm done here; unsubscribing as well. Defensor, you're on ignore. You are simply not worth it.

Take care.

Good advice.

 

[EdwinWillers]

What is it about the Fourth that brings out the crazy in some people?

I've had a measure of respect for you, but it's beginning to waver. Go grind your political axes elsewhere.
Ringo

But this is Politics Ringo - where would you have me go? To a parade?

 

[Defensor Fidei]

Why does everyone want the person who wrote the OP to forcible take your flag? I saw no call for anti-nationalists to do that in the actual post. It was a warning about the idol of nationalism that a lot of blood has been split over ever sense the idea caught on a few centuries ago. I think that response is the result of a fear mechanism "if people don't like nationalism they might want steal my flag!" There was no call for that. Why not calm down. No need to grap your rifle to protect something that wasn't threatened in the first place.

Correct, it was asking people to consider changing their own minds and hearts, to re-evaluate their own participation in mindless nationalism.

But many people take offense when asked to think.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

More easily, really, because nationalism requires that war be fought for genuine national interest, while internationalism does not.

In theory maybe. It all depends on how good the government is at selling a war in such a manner as to make SEEM as if there is an interest at stake for the whole of the nation. The Federal Government here is great at making use of nationalist sentiment to get backing for any war it decides to start on behalf of the special interests who pull their strings. Heck , if you don't support it you are even "anti-American"!

 

[American Routes]

It has been over a year since the passing of Howard Zinn

Does that mean its too late to say good riddance to him?

 

[Defensor Fidei]

Wars can be fought in the name of internationalism just as easily as they can be fought in the name of nationalism. More easily, really, because nationalism requires that war be fought for genuine national interest, while internationalism does not.

A patently false sentiment. Nationalism is the fuel of needless wars of aggression, from the German invasion of Poland to the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Neither the people of Germany nor the people of the United States benefited from such wars.

 

[BondiHarry]

American nationalism is based on worship at the altars of War and Corporatism.

Methinks your bias is showing. I don't know of any American patriots who worship at the altars of War and Corporatism and as a 20 year vet I've met quite a few patriots.

And yes, allegiance to whomever holds political power at the time, as we saw in the reactions to any criticism of Bush and his wars.

Really? Considering the Republicans were fired in 2006 and 2008 (and NOT because the American voters took a hard turn to the left as 2010 would indicate), you're making another claim that falls far short of the reality. I and many other conservatives soundly criticized Bush.

The Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution are not Christian documents.

They both embrace Christian principles or do you think justice, liberty and freedom of conscience are anti-Christ teachings?

 

[Shesapeach]

Correct, it was asking people to consider changing their own minds and hearts, to re-evaluate their own participation in mindless nationalism.

But many people take offense when asked to think.

The very small minority in this nation are the one's who are offended by this nation.

And no, it's not "mindless nationalism". That is a gross error. It is an understanding of our foundation and principles and love for our fellowman to whom we've pledged "our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor".

You are WAY off base and underestimating the majority's stance in this nation.

 

[Defensor Fidei]

Really? Considering the Republicans were fired in 2006 and 2008 (and NOT because the American voters took a hard turn to the left as 2010 would indicate), you're making another claim that falls far short of the reality. I and many other conservatives soundly criticized Bush.

Yes, really. Forget all the brouhaha over the Dixie Chicks when they were blacklisted and denounced vigorously as unpatriotic in the media for voicing mild criticism of George W. Bush and his wars? There is no need for revisionism. Everyone here lived through the time when questioning the wisdom of Bush and his wars was tantamount to treason.

And with the dangerous mentalities displayed in this thread, it can happen again. That is what scares me, and what should scare everyone regardless of nationality or religion.

They both embrace Christian principles or do you think justice, liberty and freedom of conscience are anti-Christ teachings?

Those are not exclusively Christian principles, nor did those documents seriously embrace them except for rich white male landowners.

 

[Steve Petersen]

As Americans we need to reconnect with our Founding. We need to rediscover the meaning of our country's creation. And we need to do it every year. That is the reason for ritual -- to enable us to remember. Without ritual, the memory fades. And without memory, life -- whether of the individual or of a nation – loses its meaning.

- Dennis Prager

 

[Shesapeach]

Yes, really. Forget all the brouhaha over the Dixie Chicks when they were blacklisted and denounced vigorously as unpatriotic in the media for voicing mild criticism of George W. Bush and his wars? There is no need for revisionism. Everyone here lived through the time when questioning the wisdom of Bush and his wars was tantamount to treason.

And with the dangerous mentalities displayed in this thread, it can happen again. That is what scares me, and what should scare everyone regardless of nationality or religion.

Those are not exclusively Christian principles, nor did those documents seriously embrace them except for rich white male landowners.

Then tremble. Shake in your shoes with the cowards of the world. Let's hear those knees knock!

The ideology of fear and hate you share with a very small minority.

Love it or leave it: this is the land of the free and the home of the BRAVE. We'll defend it with our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor, trusting in the protection of Divine Providence.

Shiver, little men, shiver and shake! Be afraid of those who trust in God and live honorably!

 

[Steve Petersen]

It is funny to hear people say that they love their country and then continuously bad mouth it.

Could you do the same thing with a spouse and still call it love?

 

[Shesapeach]

It is funny to hear people say that they love their country and then continuously bad mouth it.

Could you do the same thing with a spouse and still call it love?

Excellent point!

 

[Defensor Fidei]

Then tremble. Shake in your shoes with the cowards of the world. Let's hear those knees knock!

Oh, don't worry, I am quite fearful. Not for myself, but for the innocent victims who will have to keep suffering to satiate the egos of my own countrymen.

Your ideology of fear and hate is a very small minority.

Your doublespeak has grown old and stale, Peach.

To quote further from the good senator's speech (in turn quoting someone even greater):

I believe that the greatest contribution America can now make to our fellow mortals is to heal our own great but very deeply troubled land. We must respond -- we must respond to that ancient command: “Physician, heal thyself.”

 

[Defensor Fidei]

It is funny to hear people say that they love their country and then continuously bad mouth it.

Could you do the same thing with a spouse and still call it love?

If your spouse is an alcoholic who gets drunk, beats the kids and wrecks the house on a regular basis, I think it would be decisively un-loving to uncritically celebrate him/her and his/her behavior without trying to change him/her.

"My country, right or wrong," is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, "My mother, drunk or sober."
--G. K. Chesterton