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Purpose of Mosquitos and other pests

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Kylie

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Your unbelief is your own choice. God is not responsible for it. The point that I was making was that no one can persuade you to be a believer, unless God opens the eyes of your mind to "see" the Gospel of Christ. If you have heard the Gospel, and have decided not to believe it, then it may be that you have had your opportunity, because faith comes by hearing the preaching of the Gospel, and if it didn't happen to you when you heard the Gospel preached to you, then it probably never will. So you might as well eat, drink, and be merry in this life, because that is all you may have.

If it is required that God opens our eyes in order for us to become a believer, and our eyes remain closed, that means that God has not opened our eyes. How could we be held responsible for not being believers when God has not given us what is required - the opening of our eyes?
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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I (or you) cannot simply decide too believe in something. If this were the case you could will yourself to believe in anything. A change of belief requires a catalyst causing the change. It could be factual information or emotional upheaval or a change of circumstance. In the absence of catalyst it's literally impossible to

Can you, by an act of will, come to believe in the teachings of Islam? The answer is obviously 'No'. In the same way I can't manufacture a belief in your God out of thin air.


This is yet another statement where you make God responsible for my unbelief by not 'opening the eyes of your (my) mind'.

OB
The bottom line is that God decides who He enlightens with the Gospel, and who He leaves to their own devices. You can't become a believer unless God decides that you can. The fact is that He has decided from the foundation of the world who is elected to be a believer in Christ, and who is to remain reprobate. This means that you are totally helpless to decide your own future.
 
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Bradskii

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The bottom line is that God decides who He enlightens with the Gospel, and who He leaves to their own devices. You can't become a believer unless God decides that you can. The fact is that He has decided from the foundation of the world who is elected to be a believer in Christ, and who is to remain reprobate. This means that you are totally helpless to decide your own future.

Free will, eh?
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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So if someone becomes a believer it is because God makes them one?

I can't imagine anything that would prevent the Almighty from making me a believer. Tell me, how could li'l ol' me stop God from doing anything if His mighty will desires it?
The fact is that you are condemned already through your unbelief. As I said to our other friend, if you have heard that you are a condemned sinner, and that Jesus died on the Cross to take your sinfulness upon Himself and that if you decide to embrace Christ as your Saviour you will be saved from a future in hell, and have decided to reject it, then there may be no further hope for you and God may very well just leave you to go through the rest of your life and go out into eternity to face whatever is there for you.
 
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SelfSim

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The fact is that you are condemned already through your unbelief. As I said to our other friend, if you have heard that you are a condemned sinner, and that Jesus died on the Cross to take your sinfulness upon Himself and that if you decide to embrace Christ as your Saviour you will be saved from a future in hell, and have decided to reject it, then there may be no further hope for you and God may very well just leave you to go through the rest of your life and go out into eternity to face whatever is there for you.
Sounds like free will to me(?)
 
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If it is required that God opens our eyes in order for us to become a believer, and our eyes remain closed, that means that God has not opened our eyes. How could we be held responsible for not being believers when God has not given us what is required - the opening of our eyes?
If you have discussed religion with Christians, or on this forum, then you would have heard the Gospel as I have described it. If you decided not to believe it and chose not to come to Christ when He promised that they who come to Him He will in no wise cast out, then what will happen in the future will be your responsibility. You heard the invitation to be saved through what Jesus did for you on the Cross and refused it. That makes you responsible and not God. All God has done is to accept your choice and leave you on the road to your future in which you were already on from the moment you were born.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Free will, eh?
There is no such thing as free will. We have only one of two choices. Believe the Gospel of Christ or reject it. If we believe the Gospel, we are committed to doing God's will for our lives, and that is clearly set out in the Scriptures. If we choose to reject the Gospel, we can do nothing else but to continue sinning and be condemned for it.
 
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Sounds like free will to me(?)
As I just posted, there is no such thing as free will. The unconverted sinner is in bondage to sin. They can do nothing but continue to sin. Converted believers are committed to the will of God for their lives.
 
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Bradskii

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There is no such thing as free will. We have only one of two choices. Believe the Gospel of Christ or reject it. If we believe the Gospel, we are committed to doing God's will for our lives, and that is clearly set out in the Scriptures. If we choose to reject the Gospel, we can do nothing else but to continue sinning and be condemned for it.

Ah, yes. You're Pentecostal. So God has chosen you but not me. I may as well make hay while the sun shines...

Although this does sound an awful lot like free will to me:

We have only one of two choices. Believe the Gospel of Christ or reject it.

So I personally can make a free will decision to accept or reject?
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Ah, yes. You're Pentecostal. So God has chosen you but not me. I may as well make hay while the sun shines...
Yes. Although my Pentecostal ID is pretty well irrelevant, I was chosen because I believed the Gospel when it was preached to me. I embraced Christ and repented of my sins.

Seeing that you have rejected the invitation through the Gospel, you might as well enjoy life while you have it, because that is all you have.
 
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Occams Barber

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The bottom line is that God decides who He enlightens with the Gospel, and who He leaves to their own devices. You can't become a believer unless God decides that you can. The fact is that He has decided from the foundation of the world who is elected to be a believer in Christ, and who is to remain reprobate. This means that you are totally helpless to decide your own future.

Thank you. Your words have effectively absolved me of any responsibility for my future actions.

This means I can sin myself silly knowing that (according to you) God is determining everything I do.

OB
 
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Thank you. Your words have effectively absolved me of any responsibility for my future actions.

This means I can sin myself silly knowing that (according to you) God is determining everything I do.

OB
If that's what you want to do, then I won't stop you. Nevertheless, the invitation to come to Christ will be there for you for the rest of your life just in case you change your mind.
 
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Was it my decision so to do?
If you heard the Gospel of Christ, that He died on the Cross to take away your sin, and that He invites you to come to Him and put your faith in Him for salvation, and chose to reject it and continue to see yourself as an atheist, then it was your decision. That is the mystery - that you decided against Christ, and yet God made you reprobate from the foundation of the world through His foreknowledge. I know you won't believe this, but this is not surprising, because if you don't believe the Gospel, none of this will make much sense to you.
 
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I'm not sure that you actually understand the concept of free will.
Free will is the basis of the Pelagian heresy where salvation depends on man alone and his free will to chose for Christ. The heresy is the basis of Prosperity teaching that God does only what we choose to give Him permission to do.
 
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Bradskii

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Free will is the basis of the Pelagian heresy where salvation depends on man alone and his free will to chose for Christ.

Yet you say:

'...that you decided against Christ'...

I decided. So my salvation was in my hands. I made the choice.

And again, whatever it is you think you are talking about, it's not free will. Free will means that I alone decide whether to follow the gospels and accept Jesus as my saviour OR to reject the gospels and God into the bargain. And you have stated that I made that choice.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Yeah, I'm, an atheist. I don't think God made people, or did anything else, because I don't think he exists.
Ah, c'mon. You don't need me to spell it out!

Ok, IF God exists, and IF he made everything: "This temporal life was not created for the purpose of temporal life. God spoke the end result into being; it is we who see it taking these many years, with all the accompanying twists and turns, to come to be. If producing that end result takes wiping out everyone but 8 souls, so be it! Why not? We are talking about God the Creator here, not some despotic tyrant who decides to own what is not rightfully his."
 
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Mark Quayle

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Good grief. Are simple metaphors that difficult to grasp?
Non-answer. Do I need to help you grasp the metaphor I was continuing with?
 
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Mark Quayle

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Science is influenced by evidence.

But the nature of the scientific method allows for the individual personal biases to be removed by having other people check the results. Since it is unlikely that the reviewer will have the same personal biases as the experimenter, personal biases can be removed. The more people go over some work, the more chances for biases to be removed there will be.

I didn't say, Science. I said, "'science'", and "prevailing 'science'", at that. At least, the 'science' I have seen, comes across to me as prevalent...

For someone who doesn't take the time to find out if it is right or wrong because it is boring, you certainly seem to be very interested in claiming that it is wrong.

Actually, I just showed some reasons why I don't believe it.

THIS website has an examination of many of the different lines of evidence for evolution.

I'll look.
 
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