Purity Culture

[VirOptimus]

-snip-

But, in retrospect, secular women have been kind of hateful toward men in my experience. -snip-

No, they havent and they arent.

If a woman (or man) dont like you, its all on you not her.

To think otherwise is the path of the incels.

 

[TheWhat?]

No, they havent and they arent.

If a woman (or man) dont like you, its all on you not her.

To think otherwise is the path of the incels.

Ah, the great "incel" weapon.

Like a lot of christians, I don't like trends in secular American culture. I don't approve of abortion. I think trends in culture are encouraging women to be more cutthroat than they would be otherwise. The last time I used a dating app I bumped into a woman with a profile pic depicting herself sitting on satan's throne. Something about women is changing in America.

Not women in general. Not women of other cultures, necessarily. Men can be cutthroat too, but I wouldn't marry one.

If you want to single me out for being male, for being hetero, christian and being opposed to secular culture and say that makes me incel, I'd say that makes you more cutthroat as well.

 

[Freth]

Marriage, according to Genesis 2.

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.​

Genesis indicates that the man (and woman) remain with his/her father and mother until they are married. Only when married are they considered to be independent of the parents and become one flesh. The cycle then continues.

This would give the authority of the parents to arrange marriages, give away the daughter to a future son-in-law, etc.

The idea that man and woman should be sleeping around (experimenting, etc.) until marriage doesn't seem to be Biblical, as fornication is a sin. Virginity, then, should be kept by both the man and woman.

The problem, as I see it, is that God's design has been replaced with selfishness and pride—the root of sin.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

It is still treating the woman as property, and most of the women I know are responsible for themselves and had to fight for that in some cases. They don't need a man to take responsibility for them.

And yet most women I've ever known dream of having their father walk them down the aisle and give them away. It's symbolism...not literal.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

I agree and don't. I can bet you that any single person in your congregation that is 25 and older is most definitely sexually active, and since a lot of people don't marry until the are 25 or 27 or 30, that's an impractically long time to wait. But then again, if women being being virgins until married is stressed and men being virgins is downplayed if addressed at all is an antiquated double standard that we as Christians should stop playing into, as well as society as a whole.

With God is Grey, for example, she talks about the harm and fear it caused, and as you said, claiming that women (but not men) are somehow devalued if the have had sex before they get married isn't right. And having a "well, boys will be boys" attitude that encourages boys and men to have as much sex as they want, with whomever they want, also teaches boys that there are bad girls (girls willing to have sex with them) and good girls, the ones they will marry who are waiting for them to settle down. The host of GIG even talked about how confusing it was after she was married, because part of her identity was her virginity, so she even felt guilt even after marriage.

If purity and chasteness is taught, it should be to both genders, the expectation of both genders. The idea that men can't control themselves also needs to stop, and men take responsibility for their own thoughts, words, and actions.

Again, in my experience, we talk about purity just as much as women. It is taught to us just as much, at least that's my experience. Even the Bible itself talks about purity for men and examples of the harm that not being tied down to just one woman, lust, and the like can cause for a man. David and Solomon are perfect examples and all the instances of God's Word warning against sexual freedom and lust in both the Old and New Testaments. I think that pop culture thinks that we down play it for men because we aren't extremely public about every little thing we talk about, especially when it comes to sensitive subjects. It is most definitely addressed and encouraged for men to remain pure as much as women, you just don't see it with men because it is kept private.

I've never been told, oh hey, you're a guy so don't worry about sexual purity, boys will be boys and you have cravings so do what you want. That is a myth.

Edit: I've been told that by secular society, but not in the church.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Marriage, according to Genesis 2.

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.​

Genesis indicates that the man (and woman) remain with his/her father and mother until they are married. Only when married are they considered to be independent of the parents and become one flesh. The cycle then continues.

This would give the authority of the parents to arrange marriages, give away the daughter to a future son-in-law, etc.

The idea that man and woman should be sleeping around (experimenting, etc.) until marriage doesn't seem to be Biblical, as fornication is a sin. Virginity, then, should be kept by both the man and woman.

The problem, as I see it, is that God's design has been replaced with selfishness and pride—the root of sin.

Even in America, parents can claim their children as dependents up to a certain age, 25 I think, if they aren't going to be claiming themselves on taxes, aren't married, nor have children.

 

[Desk trauma]

Even in America, parents can claim their children as dependents up to a certain age, 25 I think, if they aren't going to be claiming themselves on taxes, aren't married, nor have children.

Per the IRS

To claim your child as your dependent, your child must meet either the qualifying child test or the qualifying relative test:

• To meet the qualifying child test, your child must be younger than you and either younger than 19 years old or be a "student" younger than 24 years old as of the end of the calendar year.
• There's no age limit if your child is "permanently and totally disabled" or meets the qualifying relative test.

No mention of marital status and once someone is 18 all of their parents demands can be legally answered with “LOL, nope” if they see fit.

Not to mention the abomination of both parties having to consent to a legal marriage.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Per the IRS

To claim your child as your dependent, your child must meet either the qualifying child test or the qualifying relative test:

• To meet the qualifying child test, your child must be younger than you and either younger than 19 years old or be a "student" younger than 24 years old as of the end of the calendar year.
• There's no age limit if your child is "permanently and totally disabled" or meets the qualifying relative test.

No mention of marital status and once someone is 18 all of their parents demands can be legally answered with “LOL, nope” if they see fit.

Not to mention the abomination of both parties having to consent to a legal marriage.

Oh, right. I got that confused with the requirements for FAFSA with not having to include parental income information when filing. I wasn't 100% sure on the age though.

 

[VirOptimus]

Ah, the great "incel" weapon.

Like a lot of christians, I don't like trends in secular American culture. I don't approve of abortion. I think trends in culture are encouraging women to be more cutthroat than they would be otherwise. The last time I used a dating app I bumped into a woman with a profile pic depicting herself sitting on satan's throne. Something about women is changing in America.

Not women in general. Not women of other cultures, necessarily. Men can be cutthroat too, but I wouldn't marry one.

If you want to single me out for being male, for being hetero, christian and being opposed to secular culture and say that makes me incel, I'd say that makes you more cutthroat as well.

Woooosh.

 

[Whyayeman]

In a free society men and women can - and do - have sex outside marriage.

Personally, I am all for it. But then, I don't much care for the kind of morality scraped off the pages of the Old Testament.

 

[RDKirk]

In a free society men and women can - and do - have sex outside marriage.

That is not proving to be cost-free for either men or women.

 

[Desk trauma]

That is not proving to be cost-free for either men or women.

Human interactions rarely are.

 

[Whyayeman]

That is not proving to be cost-free for either men or women.

I suppose this means consequence free, and I would agree with that. The insistence on 'purity' has consequences too; for men and women, but as has been observed here, mainly women.

 

[RDKirk]

I suppose this means consequence free, and I would agree with that. The insistence on 'purity' has consequences too; for men and women, but as has been observed here, mainly women.

I must have missed it. What was the consequence for either gender of having waited until marriage for sex?

 

[loveofourlord]

Purity culture and the unhealthy way a lot of Christians look at sex is why Christians have such a high rate of divorce, you have kids rushing to get married so they can have sex and have kids often before they are ready.

 

[RDKirk]

Purity culture and the unhealthy way a lot of Christians look at sex is why Christians have such a high rate of divorce, you have kids rushing to get married so they can have sex and have kids often before they are ready.

No, it's actually the opposite.

The Christians who insist on purity before marriage are also Christians who insist that their children delay marriage until they are "set up" in life...through college with "good jobs." But at the same time, they have been encouraging their children since early teens (if not earlier) to play at sexuality.

Of course that doesn't work.

A better plan would be to encourage earlier marriage with plenty of parental support until they completed college and got that good job.

 

[loveofourlord]

No, it's actually the opposite.

The Christians who insist on purity before marriage are also Christians who insist that their children delay marriage until they are "set up" in life...through college with "good jobs." But at the same time, they have been encouraging their children since early teens (if not earlier) to play at sexuality.

Of course that doesn't work.

A better plan would be to encourage earlier marriage with plenty of parental support until they completed college and got that good job.

is that why Christians have the highest failure rates, and most of them with people getting married too young?

 

[coffee4u]

Why does the promotion of Purity Culture, often symbolized as a kind of daughter-father prom where the daughter pledges her virginity to her father until married, only focus on girls, even within Christian communities? While it may not be said outright, being sexually active for boys/men is looked the other way. There is no son-mother dance where he pledges his virginity to his mom. Fornication is considered a sin, but it isn't addressed.

I then wonder, why would a girl want to not be sexually active waiting for a guy who isn't waiting for her to have sex at all?

If the girls are taught purity culture and boys aren't, who are the boys having sex with?

And what message does that teach boys as they become men?

Secular culture and even Christian culture don't always follow what God wants. If Christian culture is looking the other way then they have followed the secular culture surrounding them, taking their focus off what God wants for them.

We can't base what we do, say and believe on the bad choices of the people around us, or if we do we will be led astray. It is between us and God not some pledge we made to our mother or father or friends at a dance. No one can make anyone but themselves follow what God wants for us.

We all at times fail, but recognizing our sin and repenting of it is what is important. Along with refocusing on Christ. Not the Sunday type repentance that somehow makes sinning the rest of the week okay either.

 

[coffee4u]

No, it's actually the opposite.

The Christians who insist on purity before marriage are also Christians who insist that their children delay marriage until they are "set up" in life...through college with "good jobs.".

I have never told my children they need to be 'set up' first.
No doubt some people do that but stop generalizing, because you're guaranteed to be proven wrong.

 

[RDKirk]

is that why Christians have the highest failure rates, and most of them with people getting married too young?

Neither clause of that sentence is accurate.