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Prayers before some dies is not a prayer for the dead, now is it.
THINK!
The problem today is that Purgatory is no longer packaged by the RCC as a place of torment where one is punished for one's temporal sins; rather, it is being presented as a pleasant sojourn like a refreshing shower where one cleans up so one can enter heaven. Thus, indulgences have become utterly useless and meaningless.
Where do you think the Apostle Paul is this very moment? Was he in error or lying when he wrote that he would rather be "absent from the body and present with the Lord?"
Until 1 Corinthians 15:55-56 and Revelation 20:12-15 are FULFILLED, ALL the Dead Go to Hades, Righteous and Wicked, Separated by a gulf, but encompassed in Hades.
hades is not emptied by any means besides RESURRECTION.
You have no scripture that teaches any souls in any part of hades are RAISED to Heaven PRIOR to their Resurrection.
Not even one.
I realize you WANT it to be that way, and it may FEEL GOOD to think that what you claim is true, but Desires and Feelings are no substitute for Solid scriptural teaching.
Your futurism forces you to create two of everything separated by thousands of years and pointing to different referents. Futurism seeks anything other than letting the scriptures interpret the scriptures.
You claim the righteous get raised to heaven and are granted eternal life upon physical death, and then get a second "raising and eternal life" granted at the Parousia. Your futurism mandates you take a single concept and make two out of it and assign it to separate things, one for you now and one for you somewhere down the line, perhaps even thousands of years away.
That said, Does God hear and respond to the Cries of the righteous in Hades/Sheol?
Jonah 2:2
“Out of the belly of Sheol I cried,
And You heard my voice.
Do you have scripture that supports the assumption of Mary?So then Mary was assumed to Hades?
Context Friend.
Back up a few verses....
5 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
Verse one states that there are two tabernacles, or bodies, one heavenly and the other terrestrial (earthly). Verses two and three explain that at the present time we are burdened in our earthly, mortal bodies; but our hope is that some day we shall be "dressed" in the heavenly body, "that the mortal may be swallowed up by life" (vs. 3).
When will this mortal "be swallowed up by life?" The moment we die? No, for Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 15:52-54 that our mortality will not be changed to immortality until "the last trump." Paul makes it plain that he looked forward to the resurrection, not to the day of his death:
. . . we are not wanting to be stripped [die], but to be dressed. . . [resurrected] (vs. 3)
Did Paul then turn around and say in verse 8 that when he died, he would be "present with the Lord"? Of course not. He simply repeated what he had previously stated: (1) that this mortal body was burdensome, and (2) that he would rather be dressed in his resurrected body AND "be at home with the Lord."
Perhaps you could explain what you believe about The opposite situation?
How do you reconcile THIS:
2 Corinthians 5:6
So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
With THIS:
Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
Is he Absent or Present?
Is the Lord Jesus Absent from you today or is He Present with you?
Do you have scripture that supports the assumption of Mary?
Then, there is no problem at all here. If you believe that nobody goes to heaven until after the final resurrection, then it is, at least, consistent with a view that everyone is sent to Hades, or Sheol, after death. That, to say the very least, is inconsistent with the RCC understanding of Purgatory.
OTOH, if you believe that only sinless saints are in heaven now, as the RCC maintains, having bypassed purgatory, then you have a problem explaining how they got there prior to the final resurrection.
Unless Hades/Sheol/Purgatory are the same place.
Exactly what I've been attempting to point out to @Major1
1 Corinthians 3:11-15Let's follow your logic. We know that Hades is the Greek translation of the word Sheol. We do not know a thing from the Bible concerning an alleged state/place known as Purgatory.
Unless Hades/Sheol/Purgatory are the same place.
The prayerful process, by the Catholic Church, of choosing the 73 books of the Bible spanned centuries.You are correct and that is why the Apocrypha is not found in the Bible.
Do YOU know why the Apocrypha was removed??? YOU should know! Do the work!
The apocrypha books also support the use of magic and other occultic practices which cannot be attributed to God.
None of the apocryphal writers laid claim to inspiration.
Neither Jesus nor the apostles ever quoted from the Apocrypha.
Jesus referenced the Jewish Old Testament canon from the beginning to the end and did not include the Apocrypha in his reference. “From the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation,” (Luke 11:51).
There are over 260 quotations of the Old Testament in the New Testament and not one of them is from these books.
Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria (where the Septuagent was translated), did not include the Apocrypha as part of the Old Testament canon. In a letter, Athanasius listed the 22 Old Testament books and the 27 canonical books of the New Testament. He added:
"These are the fountains of salvation, that they who thirst may be satisfied with the living words they contain. In these ALONE (my emphasis) is proclaimed the doctrine of godliness." (Philip Schaff and Henry Wace, "Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers," Second Series, vol. IV, St. Athanasius, "Letter 39.6" (Grand Rapids:Eerdmans, 1953), p. 552)
You should let Pope Francis know.The problem today is that Purgatory is no longer packaged by the RCC as a place of torment where one is punished for one's temporal sins; rather, it is being presented as a pleasant sojourn like a refreshing shower where one cleans up so one can enter heaven. Thus, indulgences have become utterly useless and meaningless.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
The problem today is that Purgatory is no longer packaged by the RCC as a place of torment where one is punished for one's temporal sins; rather, it is being presented as a pleasant sojourn like a refreshing shower where one cleans up so one can enter heaven. Thus, indulgences have become utterly useless and meaningless.
Oh no! I see that there's been some discussion about that post before me, but you'd better check into this for your own sake as a Catholic. Even though Purgatory has lately been re-invented, it never was and isn't now the same as Hades or Sheol.Unless Hades/Sheol/Purgatory are the same place.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
That’s not how it was described at the council of Florence where the doctrine was formulated.
Also, if truly penitent people die in the love of God before they have made satisfaction for acts and omissions by worthy fruits of repentance, their souls are cleansed after death by cleansing pains; and the suffrages of the living faithful avail them in giving relief from such pains, that is, sacrifices of masses, prayers, almsgiving and other acts of devotion which have been customarily performed by some of the faithful for others of the faithful in accordance with the church's ordinances.
Council of Florence session 6 July 6 1439AD
So, please tell us what is burned in this passage. Is there any mention of purging or of temporal sins being purged?
As Saint Augustine said: “But by the prayers of the holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death” (Sermons, 172:2).Oh no! I see that there's been some discussion about that post before me, but you'd better check into this for your own sake as a Catholic. Even though Purgatory has lately been re-invented, it never was and isn't now the same as Hades or Sheol.
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