Purgatory!

[Giver]

Your belief and understanding seems to indicate a permanent "place", neither heaven not hell. This is not the Church's understanding or teaching of purgation which would be a temporary state for the elect so that they may be made clean. The duration and nature are not known, but only postulated.

This is interesting. What you have described here is pretty close to my understanding of purgatory when I was what I would call a "spiritual seeker". It is likely a prevalent notion among those who would not identify as Catholic or Protestant. Not firmly deposited in any particular religion. As I kept gravitating closer to Rome, and my cathechesis began in earnest, I developed an understanding in union with the Church.

Ultimately, I'm discovering, no matter what the topic is on these forums, it really just ends up boiling down to one thing. Whether or not a Christian acknowledges and accepts that the Catholic Church is one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church begun by Jesus Christ. If one accepts this truly, then they are in "communion" with the invested teaching authority of her Bishops as the successors of the Apostles, and if not, then they attach themselves to the notions of some denomination of the Church, or a non-denominational group of some sort. I've had some correspondence with some Christians who belong to no group at all. They just sit alone at home and read the bible with no guidance whatsoever, and come to forums, (usually holypal.com), and present all new Christian faith traditions based on their own interpretations.

I came to believe that Jesus didn't desire a Church divided into thousands of fragments. That He desired us to be universal, whole and one. To be presented to the Father as one when He returns. After some study and prayer, this left the Catholic Church, and the Eastern Orthodox. The Orthodox stopped holding eccumenical councils, but attend those of the Catholic Church. I think about the see of St. Peter, and how Peter was thought of among the Apostles, and so forth. Oh I don't want to get into my whole conversion story here. The point is, if one finds themselves in the Catholic Church, there is the blessing dogmas, and obedience. A heavy burden is lifted.

The fact of purgatory has come to be dogmatically defined. As a Catholic, I don't have to sweat it. The heavy lifting has already been done. I only need to be obedient to the teaching. To exercise humility.

I come to forums to learn mostly how to articulate from others who are Catholic. And also to share the gospel as much as I am granted ability to do so by our Lord.

Thank you for sharing your understanding of purgatory, and may God bless you on your continued journey.

I was under the headship of the Catholic Church for the first forty years of my life. I was an instructor in adult information classes for my church.

I went to Mass and Communion most every day. Jesus called me into his ministry, and started personally teaching me about him.

It was not long before it became apparent that the Church was not teaching the whole Word of God.

I asked Jesus how it could be for me to stay submitted to a Church that did not teach all his Word?

Jesus taught, me to cooperate with and not to fight, but I was not to be under the Churches headship any longer.

 

[South Bound]

Thank you. If you don't mind me asking, what types of prayers would be offered at a funeral or committal service. Any? You can just link me to a website, if you'd like. This is a legitimate curiosity of mine.

God bless,

Typically, a prayer of worship/praise/acknowledgement of God's sovereignty and mercy, a prayer for the family, and, being Baptists, a prayer of blessing for the chicken after the funeral.

 

[Erose]

I was under the headship of the Catholic Church for the first forty years of my life. I was an instructor in adult information classes for my church.

I went to Mass and Communion most every day. Jesus called me into his ministry, and started personally teaching me about him.

It was not long before it became apparent that the Church was not teaching the whole Word of God.

I asked Jesus how it could be for me to stay submitted to a Church that did not teach all his Word?

Jesus taught, me to cooperate with and not to fight, but I was not to be under the Churches headship any longer.

Interesting. My path was the direct opposite.

 

[Erose]

Typically, a prayer of worship/praise/acknowledgement of God's sovereignty and mercy, a prayer for the family, and, being Baptists, a prayer of blessing for the chicken after the funeral.

Chicken? A live chicken or cooked chicken?

 

[stevenfrancis]

Interesting. My path was the direct opposite.

Same here.

Leaving the Church seems like the oddest thing imaginable to someone who spent their whole life finding it in a search for truth.

 

[stevenfrancis]

Typically, a prayer of worship/praise/acknowledgement of God's sovereignty and mercy, a prayer for the family, and, being Baptists, a prayer of blessing for the chicken after the funeral.

Thank you.

Mmmm chicken.

 

[Albion]

See, this is the thing Albion. I don't see it as surrendering my judgement to a 3rd party.

That probably is what most of those who have surrendered their judgment to a 3rd party think. Naturally, they like to feel that they would be in agreement with that 3rd party even if they were to evaluate every doctrine and practice on their own.

But rather I think it is a living Church. That it is the Church of the Apostles, who are the chosen of Christ.

I'm not a stranger to all those claims, you know.

I know you don't agree with that, so no real resolution can be had between us on this matter. But I just wanted to distinguish Catholic submission to the Church from submission to a "third party".

It's just a matter of semantics, isn't it?

 

[Giver]

Same here.

Leaving the Church seems like the oddest thing imaginable to someone who spent their whole life finding it in a search for truth.

I know that the Catholic/Orthodox Church is the only Church with any authority from God.

But I also know that the Catholic/Orthodox Church has abandoned much of the written Word of God.

I also know that because it stopped teaching the whole truth, it no longer walks with the Holy Spirit.

The Church today, is very much being presided over as the Pharisees governed the Church is Jesus’ time here on earth.

 

[Albion]

I know that the Catholic/Orthodox Church is the only Church with any authority from God.

But I also know that the Catholic/Orthodox Church has abandoned much of the written Word of God.

I also know that because it stopped teaching the whole truth, it no longer walks with the Holy Spirit.

The Church today, is very much being preside over as the Pharisees governed the Church is Jesus’ time here on earth.

So.....the one true and only genuine church is...not true?

By the way, I was intrigued by your creation of "only church" by merging two different churches with different doctrines. Nice trick if you can get it by the readers. I prefer the Anglican/Lutheran/Presbyterian/Methodist Church myself because it is sooo united.

 

[Giver]

So.....the one true and only genuine church is...not true?

I did not say the Catholic/Orthodox Church was not the one true Church.

The gates of Hell have not yet prevailed against the Church. The Church will prevail over Satan, but it is going to take a big revival to bring it back to being a Church of God again.

 

[barryatlake]

Matt.18:15-18 and Luke 10:16

 

[Albion]

I did not say the Catholic/Orthodox Church was not the one true Church.

I understand, but you then went on to describe how your imaginary "one true church" has "abandoned much of the written Word of God, etc." That seems a contradiction.

I also know that because it stopped teaching the whole truth, it no longer walks with the Holy Spirit...I also know that because it stopped teaching the whole truth, it no longer walks with the Holy Spirit."

as I was saying.

The gates of Hell have not yet prevailed against the Church. The Church will prevail over Satan, but it is going to take a big revival to bring it back to being a Church of God again.

Well, that's an unusual thesis, but I suppose that there's always room for one more.

 

[Giver]

I understand, but you then went on to describe how your imaginary "one true church" has "abandoned much of the written Word of God, etc." That seems a contradiction.

I also know that because it stopped teaching the whole truth, it no longer walks with the Holy Spirit...I also know that because it stopped teaching the whole truth, it no longer walks with the Holy Spirit."

as I was saying.



Well, that's an unusual thesis, but I suppose that there's always room for one more.

John told us that the Holy Spirit would teach us everything.

(1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”


Has the Holy Spirit/Jesus taught you what you believe about God?

Has Jesus/Holy Spirit actually ever spoke to you and explained scripture to you?

The only way one can know the truth is to have God personally teach him or her.

My witness is that Jesus/Holy Spirit has taught me about God. His teaching of me has gone on for forty years.

So yes I know God, and have seen Jesus.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

[


John told us that the Holy Spirit would teach us everything.

.

Actually, Jesus was only speaking to the apostles in John 14-17.

 

[Erose]

I know that the Catholic/Orthodox Church is the only Church with any authority from God.

But I also know that the Catholic/Orthodox Church has abandoned much of the written Word of God.

I also know that because it stopped teaching the whole truth, it no longer walks with the Holy Spirit.

The Church today, is very much being presided over as the Pharisees governed the Church is Jesus’ time here on earth.

What an insane and false assumption.

 

[Giver]

Actually, Jesus was only speaking to the apostles in John 14-17.

John said: (1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”

John was talking to spirit filled Christians, and they were not the apostles.

 

[Giver]

What an insane and false assumption.

John told us that the Holy Spirit would teach us everything.

(1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”


Has the Holy Spirit/Jesus taught you what you believe about God?

Has Jesus/Holy Spirit actually ever spoke to you and explained scripture to you?

The only way one can know the truth is to have God personally teach him or her.

My witness is that Jesus/Holy Spirit has taught me about God. His teaching of me has gone on for forty years.

So yes I know God, and have seen Jesus.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Oh, then they are materialists then.

A bit, but they do appear to teach that spirits (angels, for example) exist.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I think that they teach that man is body & breath rather than body & soul. It seems that their teaching rejects any continuing existence of the human soul in consciousness after bodily death.

I used to work with a guy who was an adventist and who told me alittle of what they believe and you are partly right. From what I understood, if one dies rejecting Jesus Christ, their soul or consciousness dies or ceases to exist. If one dies accepting Jesus Christ then their soul or consciousness has eternal life with him and does not cease to exist. And it's not just about accepting Christ but they are very legalistic and believe that one has to follow the law to the tee.

 

[nephilimiyr]

If you have no sinful nature then your spirit and soul will be changed.

If you're talking about after bodily death, with my belief only your soul or conscious mind is changed. Otherwise, I see soul and spirit as two different things. The born again spirit is not changed and cannot be changed. The born again spirit was created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness, Eph. 4:24. This born again spirit was created in us when we first became believers in Christ.