proving evolution as just a "theory"

[rjs330]

Just to clear some things up for everyone here. There is a big difference between Biblical Creation theory and Intelligent Design. The confusion comes because in a lot of ways the two employ the same methods and also one picks up where the other leaves off. That line is kind of blurred between the two. ID theory is just the theory that the natural universe and life was all designed by an intelligent source...(Period). That's the end of ID. It doesn't try to claim who or what is the designer it merely points to the amazing design structures observed in the make up of the universe, life, and even the laws of physics. ID leaves the argument over who or what is the designer up to the theologians. Biblical Creation theory however is the theory that upon examining the natural universe and comparing it to the claims made in the Bible about its formation, both will harmonize. Basically Biblical Creation employs the same methods but it also picks up where ID leaves off and says that these observations agree with the Biblical description strongly validating the claims that the God of the Bible is that designer.

This then would of course mean that all Biblical Creationists must be IDists. But does not necessitate that all IDists be Biblical Creationists.

I see what you are saying. In what I've read and listened to on the website we are talking about they appear to be Biblical Creationists and use ID as a point as to why the Bible is correct in it's teachings and why evolution as not.

 

[rjs330]

Ah, so you know then, that scientific theories, require evidence.

With the exception of evolution from a common ancestor.

 

[HitchSlap]

I see what you are saying. In what I've read and listened to on the website we are talking about they appear to be Biblical Creationists and use ID as a point as to why the Bible is correct in it's teachings and why evolution as not.

Creationism = cdesign proponentsists = ID

They're all one in the same.

 

[HitchSlap]

With the exception of evolution from a common ancestor.

Especially this one. It's why it'a a theory.

 

[rjs330]

It's called the "EXPLOSION" of course it was quick!



All?

Ah of course! The claim that evolution takes a very long time to happen is support for the theory. That's why we can't observe it cause it take millions of years. Well except for the explosion. That was fast evolution. So apparently no matter if it's slow or fast it's evolution from a common ancestor.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Ah of course! The claim that evolution takes a very long time to happen is support for the theory.

Misconception: how fast a species reproduces and how frequently it's genes mutate influence the speed of evolution immensely, as well as do natural selection pressures and available niches. This is why evolution experiments done in labs tend to center around bacteria and other organisms which reproduce quickly. Heck, I picked Triops for my experiment for the fact that for a multicellular organism, they reproduce very quickly.

That's why we can't observe it cause it take millions of years.

Well, I couldn't watch a mountain like Mt. Everest develop in its entirety, but I could watch it grow a few centimeters every year, and use the consistency of said growth to conclude how long it would take for the whole mountain to develop.

Well except for the explosion. That was fast evolution.

Relatively speaking. The Cambrian explosion occurred over the course of over 20 million years.

So apparently no matter if it's slow or fast it's evolution from a common ancestor.

Look up the punctuated equilibrium model for evolution. Evolution does not occur at a steady rate all the time. Certain factors, such as a bunch of niches being opened up thanks to a mass extinction, can cause the process to proceed faster. Others, such as a relatively stable environment, can slow it down.

I designed my evolution experiment based on the fact that the speed of evolution can be influenced by factors that a person can actively control in, say, an aquarium.

 

[HitchSlap]

Ah of course!

Yes, of course!

The claim that evolution takes a very long time to happen is support for the theory.

Yes, that's what the evidence suggests.

That's why we can't observe it cause it take millions of years.

Wrong. It takes billions of years, and we can & do observe it.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/05/humans-are-still-evolving-and-we-can-watch-it-happen

Well except for the explosion.

Yes, 53* million years is a bit of an explosion on a planet that's been around 4.5 billion years.

*fix'd

That was fast evolution.

Yep, hence the name "Cambrian Explosion."

So apparently no matter if it's slow or fast it's evolution from a common ancestor.

Now you're starting to get it.

 

[bhsmte]

With the exception of evolution from a common ancestor.

Not quite, but you can believe that if it suits you.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Yes, 541 million years is a bit of an explosion on a planet that's been around 4.5 billion years.

XD dude, have you lost your touch? 541 million years ago is when the Cambrian period began, not how long it lasted, which is 53 million years.

 

[HitchSlap]

XD dude, have you lost your touch? 541 million years ago is when the Cambrian period began, not how long it lasted, which is 53 million years.

It was a fly-by post - shoulda' checked. Thanks for the correction.

 

[ruthiesea]

It's still not science. Not really, because science can be observed tested and reproduced. You can't observe commin ancestry evolution, you can't test it or reproduce it. It's a an assumption. It's a belief system. It is based upon common design and then twisted into a belief system. All observable data shows that all things are remain what they are as a family or group. Dogs are dogs and cats are cats.
Nothing changes into anything else. A worm is a worm.

You can test for common ancestry. You might want to learn a bit about genetic and how all organisms have DNA in common. This shows that life evolved from a single living cell. Our knowledge of human evolution and the evolution of all modern life grows with each new discovery.

Your statement about all life remaining as it was is true. Organisms don't change. However, over the millennia their descendants have change from the original organism through evolutionary adaptations. The evidence supporting this is overwhelming, while the evidence invalidating evolution is non-existent. Meanwhile, evidence supporting the alternative, religiously based explanations is non-nonexistent.

Anyway, evolution does not deny the existence of a god or a designer. Even if those concepts are true it doesn't change the science at all.

 

[pitabread]

Lol it's an obvious tactic to call deny deny deny when you don't have anything substantial.

I've tried engaging you on substance before. It didn't go well.

 

[ruthiesea]

You could find all major phyla arriving in a period of only 40-50 million years (known as the Cambrian Explosion) utterly destroying the Neo Darwinian gradualism inference.

Did you mean to call attention to the recalcitrant fact of those data, or their knock down capability? Opps.

Do you think that 40 to 50 million years is too short for evolution to create new organisms? You must have no concept of how long a period that is. That's long enough for some stars to be born and to die. It's long enough for billions of generations of some organism to be born and to die. It's long enough for more than 400,000 generations of humans to be born and to die. It's long enough for new phyla to evolve from preexisting phyla.

I think that the term "explosion' has confused you.

 

[Aman777]

Citation Please!

Blather... What you're not addressing, is the Evidence.

That's because the evidence is missing. Tell us HOW and WHEN mindless Nature put the superior intelligence of God into Apes. You cannot. Neither can you show us genetically HOW Humans changed from prehistoric to Human. Your "evidence" depends on your blind Faith in the False ToE. In the end, you will weep and gnash your teeth.

 

[Aman777]

As a rule I take their word for it. If they believe that Jesus Christ is the Word incarnate and in their salvation through His real, historical death and resurrection that is generally enough for me, especially if they witness for it in the way they lead their lives.

How do you know who is and who is not a Christian?

Only God knows as the following shows:

Jesus Christ:>> Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[Speedwell]

Only God knows as the following shows:

Jesus Christ:>> Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

So a Christian is the same as a Good Scotsman.

 

[Aman777]

Firstly it doesn't say anything about human kind inheriting God's intelligence. It says "Then the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever” Knowing good and evil is a long ways from inheriting the intelligence of God. Scriptures teach that "sin and death" was what Adam passed on. And I already gave you the passages that tell us this.

Another name for God is "The Judges". In order to Judge, one MUST have the highest intelligence in Creation. Lord God is saying that man/Adam has become like one of the Trinity. Those who have inherited Adam's superior intelligence over ANY other living creature have also received the Free Choice to believe God or Not. Adam's/mankind's destiny is to have dominion or rule over EVERY living creature including Angels. That is WHY we have the highest intelligence in Creation.

Secondly the scriptures do not talk about any other "sub" human (prehistoric man) or "water people." God created one race of man and gave them "intelligence" and dominion over all the rest of creation. Death did not exist in the universe until Adam sinned. "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned" (Rom. 5:12) "For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead." (1Cor. 15:21)

False, since prehistoric people were on planet Earth for Millions of years BEFORE the Ark arrived bringing the first Humans (descendants of Adam) to this Earth. Their bones are found for Millions of years before the Ark arrived 11k years ago.

Your false idea that mankind has already been given dominion over every other thing in creation is FUTURE. It happens AFTER Jesus returns at the end of the 6th Creative Day, Gen 1:28, a FUTURE event. Notice also that death spread to ALL men/Adam and NOT the entire creation, when Adam sinned.

Did prehistoric man move? Of course he did, which means that he was created and brought forth from WATER, before Eve was made. In fact a full Day/Age before Eve as Gen 1:21 shows. Scripture and Science AGREE that "every living creature that moveth" came forth from WATER long before the arrival of the Ark.

This death is not just the death that effected humanity. It was a spiritual death that happened that day to mankind, and also a physical death that effected all of creation. "Then to Adam He said, Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field." (Gen. 3:17-18)

Darkness or Death was upon EVERYTHING God created in the beginning. Gen 1:2 ANYTHING apart from God is subject to Death. Adam was a Special Creation, made like Jesus to live forever.

"For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now." (Rom. 8:19-22)

Amen. There will be NO death in the 3rd Heaven. Rev 21:4 Creation will be made perfect at the end of the present 6th Day. Gen 1:31 Christians will live forever in Heaven and God will rest or cease to create on the 7th Day which is ETERNITY.

 

[Bugeyedcreepy]

That's because the evidence is missing. Tell us HOW and WHEN mindless Nature put the superior intelligence of God into Apes. You cannot. Neither can you show us genetically HOW Humans changed from prehistoric to Human. Your "evidence" depends on your blind Faith in the False ToE. In the end, you will weep and gnash your teeth.

lol! <opens eyes unlike a fundamentalist & looks around just a little>....

Voila!

so here we have ^^ This ^^ which shows all the measurable sizes for all the skulls we've found so far for all the hominids ranked by time, size and species. As you can plainly see, there's most certainly a trend towards gradual increase in brain case volume over time. You can even see this trend in increasing skull volume within particular species of hominids that were around for some time...

If you find this data hard to understand, then perhaps this one with the pretty colours makes it easier?

This one doesn't break down hominids by species or anything, but it just groups all hominids together for ease of showing the clear trend towards a gradual increase of brain case volume over a long period of time.

If you find even That to be too difficult to follow, how about this one?:

It even has purdy pictures to look at - surely the trend of gradual growth over time is clear in any of the above??

If not,

 

[Aman777]

Evolution is taught in school science because it is a valid scientific theory. What you propose is to eliminate science and teach our children information based on your particular religious beliefs with which my religion disagrees.

False, since it is based on blind faith in an incomplete, easily refuted, Godless Theory. By force teaching these lies to our children, we are teaching them that they are NOT God's children but instead are the same as any other animal. The ToE begins by claiming it doesn't know where the first man came from. Just believe us, they say while they cannot provide ANY support for their "beliefs". Can you?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Whut?? Where is this in the Bible?? You know it was Men who derived and proved these formulas, right?

My point is (and I can repeat this as many times as you want) the Bible is JUST as accurate as a mathematical formula. My son is taking math that only 10% of the people are able to understand. Does that make the formula any less accurate if 90% of the people do not understand the formula? God is always true even if every man is a liar. Because the Bible is not based on man, the Bible is based on God and His authority. God watches over His word to do and to perform what He says He is going to do.

Isa 55:11 "So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it."