proving evolution as just a "theory"

[AV1611VET]

Wow, look at you guys, still going at it.

Well over a thousand posts in this thread.

I'm impressed!

 

[AV1611VET]

L. Ron Hubbard literally made up an entire religion - in your lifetime - and is “getting away with it.”

Really?

What holidays and martyrs are associated with L. Ron Hubbard?

And if he is getting away with anything, he's fooling you unbelievers into believing that God is in the neutral zone, along with your other examples.

 

[sfs]

No, it's a process I sense a bit of anger and sarcasm on your and others behalf that is directly related to your inability to understand.

Only one of us accused the other of intellectual dishonesty, and it wasn't me. Are you sure you're correctly identifying where the anger is located?

I'm just trying to help you guys understand that behind every interaction/law in the physical world there is a structure that needs defining..

This could even serve as a guarantee of the existence of God. It just takes a very logical mind to understand it. It could actually serve a new untouched branch of science.

You're confusing disagreement with lack of understanding. Your claim is clear enough. It's the logical support for it that is lacking.

 

[HitchSlap]

Really?

What holidays and martyrs are associated with L. Ron Hubbard?

And if he is getting away with anything, he's fooling you unbelievers into believing that God is in the neutral zone, along with your other examples.

The only fool is the one who the thinks one religion is better than another.

 

[AV1611VET]

The only fool is the one who the thinks one religion is better than another.

Ya ... "love thine enemy" is hard to distinguish from "convert or die," isn't it?

 

[HitchSlap]

Ya ... "love thine enemy" is hard to distinguish from "convert or die," isn't it?

You shouldn’t be so hard on yourself.

 

[Allandavid]

The Bible was written by MEN that were INSPIRED by GOD. You have to be HOLY and SANCTIFIED to be used by God. Many are called but few are choose because they do not live a holy sanctified life to be used by God for his purpose. We have to be very careful what we say because God watches over our words. God says "I am watching over My word to perform it." (american standard) "I am watching to see that my word is fulfilled." (NIV) Jeremiah 1:12

We have a covenant relationship with God. He is going to do what He says He is going to do. That is why we know how to pray and we know how to get results when we pray. IF you do not understand God. If you do not KNOW God then you do not know how to get results and answers.

Claims, claims, claims....

 

[Allandavid]

That's the equivalent to saying " you didn't build that house, those hammers did"

Big difference...I have evidence of both you and the hammers existing...

 

[Kylie]

Evolution is very directed. What determines the evolution required for adaption? Why makes a caterpillar turn into a butterfly? All of this is directed. The formula for everything is predetermined.

First of all, a caterpillar turning into a butterfly is not evolving. Caterpillars do not evolve into butterflies.

Secondly, evolution is not directed. Evolution doesn't sit around thinking, "Oh yes, in about three billion years I want these single cell organisms to be Humans." Evolution is just trying out a bunch of small changes (which result from the copying process used to create off spring being an imperfect process), and then if one of those small changes leads to an increase in reproductive ability straight away, then that change will become more common, simply because the organisms with that change will have more offspring.

 

[Kylie]

I tried to break it down as simple as I thought necessary.. but I'll try to make it even simpler. You have object A and Object B. Each Object has a specific interaction with each other. That interaction had to be defined prior to either objects existence.

Ah, but we are talking about a process, not objects.

And like I said, there will be clear indications if two organisms have the same trait due to a common ancestor or if they have that trait due to convergent evolution.

Water puts out fire.. why?

Because water makes it difficult for the fire to obtain oxygen, and also because water absorbs the heat that the fire needs to continue burning.

Says who? Who says that the interaction between water and fire happens the way it does? Where did this definition come from? God.

Says anyone who understands basic science.

And it's a process, not a definition.

 

[Kylie]

it will not work in this case, since we are talking about a mammal fossil that doesnt have any DNA.

True, that can make it difficult. But we can check the living descendants of those creatures, and look at their DNA. For example, we can look at birds to get an idea about dinosaurs. And before you ask, there are ways of determining how old a section of DNA is.

We can also look at the actual shape of the fossils. No one would suggest, for example, that the wings of birds and bats are anything other than convergent evolution.

 

[The Times]

iam trying to prove to a friend that the christian way is the true way but he tells me to give an explanation of evolution and dinosaurs.

any things i could say to prove him wrong?

love
camila smith <3

There is a signature pattern throughout all of creation called the Fibonacci pattern, This spiral is visible in things as diverse as: hurricanes, spiral seeds, the cochlea of the human ear, sea shells, snail shells, fingure print, ram's horn, sea-horse tail, growing fern leaves, DNA molecule, waves breaking on the beach, tornados, galaxies, the tail of a comet as it winds around the sun, whirlpools, seed patterns of sunflowers, daisies, dandelions, and in the construction of the ears of most mammals.

If things evolve randomly, in tandem, then this would rule out the fibonacci pattern, because what has evolved on earth can never be consistently repeated throughout all of creation, without fail, throughout all galaxies.

The mere fact that this pattern existed from time zero, when planets and solar systems and galaxies came into being, then at the beginning, there was the Fibonacci pattern, which defies all evolutionary theories, for the simple fact of the pattern existing from the very beginning, which infers that there was order to begin with.

Evolution theory is order from a chaotic system involving many misses, over millions to billions of years, before order is reached, hence the term evolving into something more substantial and better than previous.

To prove a pattern consistent throughout creation indicates order from the very inception of created things, which proves that there is the Creator. Scientists freely throw out phrases like the finger print of God, when it comes to the Fibonacci pattern, though these scientists don't even believe in God. So go figure!

This is your argument that wins through and through.

For a more detailed study link, please refer below...

Shapes, Numbers, Patterns, And The Divine Proportion In God's Creation | The Institute for Creation Research

 

[The Times]

If an Engineer designed a smartphone, therefore the repeated embedded functional states of that device will infer a unique designer.
If say another Engineer designed another smartphone, therefore the repeated functional states of that device will infer a second designer, distinct from the first.

In the example of smartphones, say Apple phone Versus Samsung phone, though the user phone functionality on the surface appears to be the same, that is you can call or recieve calls, send and recieve emails, take pictures etc. The embeded functional states beneath the surface, that is the platform or patent patterns governing embeded algorithms to provide those user functions highlight two different designers, that is Apple and the other Samsung.

Now in the case of galaxies and planets, evolving due to evolution theory, one would see similar functional use on the surface, yet within the embeded detail of each galaxy and planets, we would need to see an infinite array of patterns that arrive at the functional surface level. This means that for evolution to be true, there must be an infinite array of patterns distinct from the Fibonacci pattern. The truth in the matter is that there are not.

Therefore since we can determine at the embeded level that Apple smartphone uses a distinct algorithmic pattern to that of the Samsung smartphone, therefore infering two distinct designers, who arrive at the same functional use, through the evolutionary research and design of their products over time.

What does this mean?

It means that the deeply embeded Fibonacci pattern across all of creation, dismisses any second, third, fourth to infinity evolutionary paths, because there is only one designed PATENT and that is the Fibonacci pattern. Now this SINGULAR PATENT must have a single designer, therefore go figure!

 

[pitabread]

If things evolve randomly, in tandem, then this would rule out the fibonacci pattern, because what has evolved on earth can never be consistently repeated throughout all of creation, without fail, throughout all galaxies.

Except that nobody thinks that everything is purely "random". We know there are basic physical laws that operate in the universe and that to a certain extent, there is consistency in how things operate.

This idea that everything in nature should be purely random sounds like a strawman you made up.

 

[The Times]

Except that nobody thinks that everything is purely "random". We know there are basic physical laws that operate in the universe and that to a certain extent, there is consistency in how things operate.

This idea that everything in nature should be purely random sounds like a strawman you made up.

No I don't believe so. It is basic knowledge and logical reasoning. If you object, that is fine, however it does not in any way refute what has been shown to you. For example if I show you a white coloured ball and you call it black, then that is fine too, again it does not in any shape, way or form take away the knowledge and logical reasoning that it is a white ball.

When it comes to the Fibonacci pattern, there is no law that governs it must be a Fibonacci pattern. The fact that the electrical circuits in a smartphone are governed by laws of electricity which are consistent, this in no way dictates how the designer like Apple or Samsung Patent their embedded algorithms that distinguishes one designer from another. In other words the Fibonacci pattern is not the actual laws, rather it is an inherent embedded algorithm which is unique to the designer in the SINGULAR. There is no law in the universe that governs how embedded patterns should be, rather the patterns themselves use laws of nature and cosmic laws, in order to arrive at the intended function. Majority of scientists who don't believe in God agree that the Fibonacci pattern is a patent signature inherent within all creation, in the absense of other signitures. Random signitures would indicate random evolutionary cycles driven by other algorithmic signitures, where we do not see that.

I believe in using my discerment to gauge truth from fiction. Evolution is a theory, I call it a well parroted fictional theory that flies in the face of reality.

Patterns found in nature are not laws, but are algorithms which use laws to arrive at a function.

 

[Gregory Hart]

If you can prove evolution wrong there is a Nobel prize waiting for you. Good luck.

I can and have proved it. The proof is at http://www.GHart.net/Evolution_Theory.pdf . I would greatly appreciate it if you would read it over, and provide any feedback that might improve upon it. My writing style is a not “professional”, … I’m not a writer. That’s where I was hoping you or a friend from your Church could help me.

 

[Gregory Hart]

Why would you cite a source that refuses to use the scientific method and refuses to acknowledge evidence which can't be reconciled with their preconcieved beliefs?

I have written a paper that debunks the theory of evolution, and does so by using logical argument and scientific observations. It contains no religious references, but draws an end conclusion that evolution should be different than what we see, and that evolution is guided by some form of higher intelligence. Granted, it’s not proof of God for fact, but; it is one of the closest proofs I’m aware of that uses only science and logic to prove the existence of some form of higher power in life that guides and controls it.



The paper is at http://www.GHart.net/Evolution_Theory.pdf . I would greatly appreciate it if you would read it over, and provide any feedback that might improve upon it. My writing style is a not “professional”, … I’m not a writer. That’s where I was hoping you or a friend from your Church could help me.


Thank you :> )

 

[Gregory Hart]

If an Engineer designed a smartphone, therefore the repeated embedded functional states of that device will infer a unique designer.
If say another Engineer designed another smartphone, therefore the repeated functional states of that device will infer a second designer, distinct from the first.

In the example of smartphones, say Apple phone Versus Samsung phone, though the user phone functionality on the surface appears to be the same, that is you can call or recieve calls, send and recieve emails, take pictures etc. The embeded functional states beneath the surface, that is the platform or patent patterns governing embeded algorithms to provide those user functions highlight two different designers, that is Apple and the other Samsung.

Now in the case of galaxies and planets, evolving due to evolution theory, one would see similar functional use on the surface, yet within the embeded detail of each galaxy and planets, we would need to see an infinite array of patterns that arrive at the functional surface level. This means that for evolution to be true, there must be an infinite array of patterns distinct from the Fibonacci pattern. The truth in the matter is that there are not.

Therefore since we can determine at the embeded level that Apple smartphone uses a distinct algorithmic pattern to that of the Samsung smartphone, therefore infering two distinct designers, who arrive at the same functional use, through the evolutionary research and design of their products over time.

What does this mean?

It means that the deeply embeded Fibonacci pattern across all of creation, dismisses any second, third, fourth to infinity evolutionary paths, because there is only one designed PATENT and that is the Fibonacci pattern. Now this SINGULAR PATENT must have a single designer, therefore go figure!

I have written a logical paper that proves evolution to be false, but uses different logic than this post.

The paper is at http://www.GHart.net/Evolution_Theory.pdf . I would greatly appreciate it if you would read it over, and provide any feedback that might improve upon it. My writing style is a not “professional”, … I’m not a writer. That’s where I was hoping you or a friend from your Church could help me.

 

[rjs330]

Your "article" in no way answers my question, it's merely one long argument from incredulity and misrepresentation.

For example, this little gem....

“Transitional” forms between horses with teeth designed for browsing (Parahippus) and those with teeth for grazing (Merychippus) are rare

Which is simply a lie. The evolution of horse teeth has been thoroughly researched and is understood.....

Fossil records verify a long-standing theory that horses evolved through natural selection, according to groundbreaking research by two anatomy professors at New York College of Osteopathic Medicine (NYCOM) of New York Institute of Technology.


Working with colleagues from Massachusetts and Spain, Matthew Mihlbachler, Ph.D., and Nikos Solounias, Ph.D. arrived at the conclusion after examining the teeth of 6,500 fossil horses representing 222 different populations of more than 70 extinct horse species. The records, spanning the past 55 million years, indicate a "critical" lag time between the evolution of horse teeth and dietary changes resulting from climate change.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110303141542.htm

..........................................................

I don't know if you bothered looking at any of the papers or books that are cited as sources but the majaority of them very much support and evidence the current understanding of horse evolution.

Anyway, I've already spent too long looking at that rubbish, if you're interested this blog points out many more of it's errors.

Besides, I'm not asking you to quibble with what I posted, the fossils I mentioned have all been catalogued and examined which you can verify for yourself , I'm asking for your explanation of how we can clearly observe many species of Equidae appearing in the fossil record with slight differences to preceding species chronolgically?

There are other places I found that point out the errors in the eohippus being used as evidence. Yet you continue to try and perpetrate the fraud. It's very typical of evolutionary science to just summarily dismiss any evidence against the theory. And they have to because anything that shoes evidence against it disproves the theory therefore nothing can disprove the theory. What happens is it becomes a hand wave against anything calling it fraudulent or non scientific and especially the damaging "creationist" title which automatically dismisses whatever is said.

 

[rjs330]

Your "article" in no way answers my question, it's merely one long argument from incredulity and misrepresentation.

For example, this little gem....

“Transitional” forms between horses with teeth designed for browsing (Parahippus) and those with teeth for grazing (Merychippus) are rare

Which is simply a lie. The evolution of horse teeth has been thoroughly researched and is understood.....

Fossil records verify a long-standing theory that horses evolved through natural selection, according to groundbreaking research by two anatomy professors at New York College of Osteopathic Medicine (NYCOM) of New York Institute of Technology.


Working with colleagues from Massachusetts and Spain, Matthew Mihlbachler, Ph.D., and Nikos Solounias, Ph.D. arrived at the conclusion after examining the teeth of 6,500 fossil horses representing 222 different populations of more than 70 extinct horse species. The records, spanning the past 55 million years, indicate a "critical" lag time between the evolution of horse teeth and dietary changes resulting from climate change.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110303141542.htm

..........................................................

I don't know if you bothered looking at any of the papers or books that are cited as sources but the majaority of them very much support and evidence the current understanding of horse evolution.

Anyway, I've already spent too long looking at that rubbish, if you're interested this blog points out many more of it's errors.

Besides, I'm not asking you to quibble with what I posted, the fossils I mentioned have all been catalogued and examined which you can verify for yourself , I'm asking for your explanation of how we can clearly observe many species of Equidae appearing in the fossil record with slight differences to preceding species chronolgically?

Hers another.

The evolution of the horse - CMI Mobile