Prove that God is good

Cuddles333

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2011
1,104
162
65
Denver
✟30,312.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What would you say if someone asked you to prove that God is good?


The person asking the question is by default implying that moral 'goodness' is objective. The only way moral 'goodness' can be objective (not just universal) is for God to exist. By being pressed to give examples of 'goodness' one is being dragged into the maze of Epistemology where the conversation becomes dimmed. In public debates it is crucial to avoid this.
 
Upvote 0

daq

Messianic
Jan 26, 2012
4,919
1,076
Devarim 11:21
Visit site
✟116,899.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
What would you say if someone asked you to prove that God is good?

First I might ask the person where he or she gets the very idea of "God". If the answer happens to be something along the lines of, "the Bible", then I would proceed to retell the story of the first man. And it would go something like this: In the beginning was the Father and His Son. And the living Son desired to make a living creature: the first man. The Father then says to the Son, You know the living creature will come to be tested: what do you propose to do when the creature turns against us? (the Father knowing the answer of course), and the Son says, I am willing to give myself if need be so as to help him stand upright again. So the first man was formed of dust from the adamah, that is, the soil, and he was earthy, dust-like, and from below, the consummate natural man: and he was formed before any plant of the field was in the earth, and before any herb of the field had sprouted. Then, in the third day, Elohim struck in a garden of Paradise, and planted fruit trees bearing fruit each one after its kind, and he put the man with his helpmate into the garden of Paradise. But Elohim commanded the man not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because, if and when he did, then in the day wherein he ate of it, dying he would die, (surely die). But of course we all know the story; the natural man cast aside the one commandment Elohim had given him, and ate of the forbidden fruit of the forbidden tree, (together with his helpmate of course).

So the man died in the same day wherein he ate of the forbidden fruit of the forbidden tree, that is, in the fourth day, (when the greater light, the lesser light, and the stars were made, when days and years and seasons and time commenced). And while the man slept the slumber of a dead man the Father says to the Son, Watta ya say we make a day as it were a thousand years and a thousand years as it were a day? It alters nothing written in the heavenly tablets: and the Son says to the Father, I know you have already done that, Sir. Now this is mercy, and the first instance of it, and Elohim is therefore Good.

Then the Father says to the Son, For now all we really need is your skin; and as for the rest, we have until the sixth day to make all the preparations for the Great Day. So the Lord God made the man and his helpmate coats of white-light skin, with the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, and this is both mercy and grace, and Elohim is therefore Very Good. And with these very good things the man lived nine hundred and thirty years, almost a whole day. Ah, yes, God is Good, Very Good. :D
.
.
 
Upvote 0

Sistrin

We are such stuff as dreams are made on...
Site Supporter
Jun 9, 2012
6,488
3,399
Location Location Location
✟197,980.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

Not_By_Chance

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 25, 2015
813
176
70
✟62,306.00
Faith
Non-Denom
I imagine there were a lot of suffering people on the planet that Christ didn't heal. Why did he heal some and not others?

As far as I am aware, He healed everyone that came to Him for help, see:-
Mat_4:24 News about him spread all over Syria, and people brought to him all who were ill with various diseases, those suffering severe pain, the demon-possessed, those having seizures, and the paralyzed, and he healed them.
Mar_6:56 And wherever he went—into villages, towns or countryside—they placed the sick in the marketplaces. They begged him to let them touch even the edge of his cloak, and all who touched him were healed.
Luk_4:40 When the sun was setting, the people brought to Jesus all who had various kinds of sickness, and laying his hands on each one, he healed them.
Act_5:16 Crowds gathered also from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing their sick and those tormented by evil spirits, and all of them were healed.

As to why Christ didn't heal everyone on the planet, you may as well ask why God doesn't do that now. Every believer has to find an answer to this question. Could it be that things have to be this way at present because of our sin, which has damaged God's original creation? Even if God were to heal all our wounds, we would still continue to suffer until such time as God fully restored His creation to the original "very good" state as He declared in Genesis.

I would contend that if we took the entirety of what Christ says in the four gospels that most people would not find him to be good at all by their standards.

What standards are we daring to use to judge God by? Do we think we have a higher morality than our Creator? If you include yourself in the "most people" group then it seems that you have already decided for yourself that God is not good, since Jesus is the Creator of all things.
 
Upvote 0

Hoghead1

Well-Known Member
Oct 27, 2015
4,911
741
77
✟8,968.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
As far as I am aware, He healed everyone that came to Him for help, see:-
Mat_4:24 News about him spread all over Syria, and people brought to him all who were ill with various diseases, those suffering severe pain, the demon-possessed, those having seizures, and the paralyzed, and he healed them.
Mar_6:56 And wherever he went—into villages, towns or countryside—they placed the sick in the marketplaces. They begged him to let them touch even the edge of his cloak, and all who touched him were healed.
Luk_4:40 When the sun was setting, the people brought to Jesus all who had various kinds of sickness, and laying his hands on each one, he healed them.
Act_5:16 Crowds gathered also from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing their sick and those tormented by evil spirits, and all of them were healed.

As to why Christ didn't heal everyone on the planet, you may as well ask why God doesn't do that now. Every believer has to find an answer to this question. Could it be that things have to be this way at present because of our sin, which has damaged God's original creation? Even if God were to heal all our wounds, we would still continue to suffer until such time as God fully restored His creation to the original "very good" state as He declared in Genesis.



What standards are we daring to use to judge God by? Do we think we have a higher morality than our Creator? If you include yourself in the "most people" group then it seems that you have already decided for yourself that God is not good, since Jesus is the Creator of all things.
Since we believe God has significant impact on our lives, yes, we have the right to judge God. Yes, we do have higher moral standards than what various models of God allow. Note, I didn't say God per se, I said models of God. For example, some will argue God predestined absolutely everything. However, that means God is in fact the author of evil and we have no freedom. So I think that model wrong.
 
Upvote 0

alexandriaisburning

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2015
670
192
✟16,819.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
You wrote something long. I did not read it. Your first writing to me dripped with contempt. I told you I was not going to have any further conversation with you, and I meant it. You belittled me, and I, in turn, am not interested in you, and will not read your posts. Goodbye.

I accept your concession to my argument.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

alexandriaisburning

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2015
670
192
✟16,819.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
How does anyone define what is good - is it purely subjective or is there an absolute standard by which to judge whether something is good or not and if so, where does that standard come from?

Whether or not "good" is subjective or objective is not really of consequence, IMO. As humans are incapable of transcending the subjectivity of mind, "good" to us will always be terminated in subjectivity and variability. Even if we posit that our subjective interpretation of "good" is based on some supposed "absolute" standard, we have no epistemological or empirical access to this standard, and therefore have no feasible way of verifying or demonstrating that our interpretations of the presumed objective "good" are in any way commensurate with its standard.
 
Upvote 0

Vicomte13

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2016
3,655
1,816
Westport, Connecticut
✟101,337.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I accept your concession to my argument.
There was no "concession to your argument". I did not READ your argument. You were arrogant and condescending in your first post to me. In my reply, I told you I would not be continuing to converse with you. You wrote something long in response. I replied that I did not read it, and would not. That remains the case. I don't know what your "argument" is, and I never will. I am unwilling to spend my time with a nasty person.
 
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,261
1,767
The land of OZ
✟322,950.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
If it is 'actions done by God' which determine whether or not God is 'good', then those espousing such an opinion might need one of two things....whiteout for the following verse or a deeper understanding of our omniscient God who has a plan for the ages. And if it is truly a plan whereby with God 'the end justifies the means', then when the 'predestined goal' is reached by Him who "accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will", it will manifest as the ultimate revelation/definition of good IMO.

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive GOOD at the hand of God, and shall we not receive EVIL? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Since even the bible says Job didn't sin with his understanding of this issue, it should possibly lead us to realize many of the understandings here, just may be falling short in their understanding....and are possibly just a bit "foolish" also.
 
Upvote 0

1213

Disciple of Jesus
Jul 14, 2011
3,661
1,117
Visit site
✟146,199.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
1) No one asked to be here

2) the fact we were just placed on this planet without any say, negates our free will.

3) I remember reading one scripture where it says, he causes the light and darkness or something like that

If we are but here against our will, it means that we have own free will but we are not all powerful or omnipotent. Free will doesn’t mean that whatever we want happens, but that we can want whatever.

God can be compared to light and darkness is when God (light) is not present or doesn’t shine. God can let you be without him and so you can be without light. And when you are without light, you have darkness, which is actually nothing. Darkness is formed, when light is removed. So if God decides to let you be without him, he sends darkness by allowing you to be without Him. And when you are without God and His protection, all evil things become possible. Evil is not from God, but it gets opportunity, when God is rejected and God leaves you alone. And evil is really nothing, it is lack of God and lack of love, which causes suffering and things that are not nice.
 
Upvote 0

Cuddles333

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2011
1,104
162
65
Denver
✟30,312.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
First question:What do you mean by good?

The person asking the question is by default implying that moral 'goodness' is objective. The only way moral 'goodness' can be objective (not just universal) is for God to exist. By being pressed to give examples of 'goodness' one is being dragged into the maze of Epistemology where the conversation becomes dimmed. In public debates it is crucial to avoid this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PapaZoom
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,268
1,824
✟835,948.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So let me ask this: God gives instructions about selling one's daughter as a slave in Exodus 21. Therefore, selling one's daughter as a slave can't be evil, correct?

God gave lots of “instructions” to Moses on how to do lots of stuff, but given the example Christ was presented with “divorcing one’s wife” he said this: Matt. 19:8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Selling your “daughter” into slavery was not what God desired, but would allow because the people were just so bent on doing it their way. You have to also remember this “slavery” was for a maximum of 7 years since all slaves were to be set free in the Year of Jubilee, so it is not like our “slavery” today, but more lake being a contract servant for a given length of time.
 
Upvote 0

Achilles6129

Veteran
Feb 19, 2006
4,504
367
Columbus, Ohio
✟37,182.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Politics
US-Republican
God gave lots of “instructions” to Moses on how to do lots of stuff, but given the example Christ was presented with “divorcing one’s wife” he said this: Matt. 19:8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Selling your “daughter” into slavery was not what God desired, but would allow because the people were just so bent on doing it their way. You have to also remember this “slavery” was for a maximum of 7 years since all slaves were to be set free in the Year of Jubilee, so it is not like our “slavery” today, but more lake being a contract servant for a given length of time.

I'll actually disagree with this: I think that slavery was a totally different institution in ancient Israel, and that some people might actually want to become slaves. I don't think there was any oppression or abuse as the word "slavery" has come to connote.

I guess my point was that anything God commands is good. I was wondering if anyone on this thread disagreed with anything that God commanded anywhere in Scripture.
 
Upvote 0

dqhall

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2015
7,547
4,171
Florida
Visit site
✟766,603.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Psalm 23 King James Version (KJV)
1 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

Have you ever known goodness from God? Learned a skill or facts? Been healed when you were sick? Found something that was lost? Been led to safety from those who sought to do you harm? Been freed from pain, addiction and debt? Listened to one who was wise? Heard people's testimony about God's salvation?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,390
20,350
US
✟1,488,266.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I would tell them that the first thing is to prove to yourself which god or idea of a god is the real God. Then, is the God of the Bible that one? If so--and I believe it to be so--the question is answered because the Bible reveals that the nature of God is good.

According to the bible, nature reveals that God is good:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
 
Upvote 0