Protesting the national anthem

[Redac]

That is the beauty of statistics, they speak for themselves.

You'd be surprised how often statistics don't just "speak for themselves". But since I'm talking to you, not the statistics, why don't you make whatever point it is you're trying to make?

 

[essentialsaltes]

I think it's interesting that if one or two players in a blue moon pray on the field that becomes a big thing where people get mad at them and they have to stop

No one made anyone stop praying.

and if you don't agree with what they're doing you don't have free speech to disagree.

No one is stopping anyone from getting mad at them.

It basically has come to the point where I feel like it's a very one sided "free speech" we have nowadays.

The NFL is not stopping anyone from expressing themselves. There are mad people on all sides. It is not one sided. It's just in one case you're mad, and in the other case you're not. You're the one who's one-sided. Not the issue.

 

[RDKirk]

That is the beauty of statistics, they speak for themselves.

Nobody who works with statistics would say something like that, unless they were scamming someone.

Statistics absolutely do not speak for themselves.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Nobody who works with statistics would say something like that, unless they were scamming someone.

Statistics absolutely do not speak for themselves.

Surely statistics can be manipulated by the people who gather them and often are. But they do once gathered speak for themselves. Now with that being said, that is exactly my point. If someone is going to make a statement about how the US has been a white only nation, is one not looking at the statistical evidence of migration and is just feeding this race baiting nonsense.

Also, this whole supposedly organic protest is anything but that, this is orchestrated and the fact people can't see that is why this country is in real trouble. The piper blows the race horn and all the mindless follow the tune.

 

[RDKirk]

Surely statistics can be manipulated by the people who gather them and often are. But they do once gathered speak for themselves. Now with that being said, that is exactly my point.

Sorry, but you're basically wrong about that. Statistics must always be quantified, qualified, and interpreted. What someone thinks are "statistics speaking for themselves" are really statistics that have been quantified, qualified, and interpreted and that person just doesn't realize it.

And that is dangerous, because not realizing someone has interpreted them, he'd never question what the agenda of that interpretation might have been.

 

[Belk]

Surely statistics can be manipulated by the people who gather them and often are. But they do once gathered speak for themselves. Now with that being said, that is exactly my point. If someone is going to make a statement about how the US has been a white only nation, is one not looking at the statistical evidence of migration and is just feeding this race baiting nonsense.

Also, this whole supposedly organic protest is anything but that, this is orchestrated and the fact people can't see that is why this country is in real trouble. The piper blows the race horn and all the mindless follow the tune.

That is a serious accusation. What evidence do you have to support it?

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Sorry, but you're basically wrong about that. Statistics must always be quantified, qualified, and interpreted.

So then you contradict your original statement. Anyhow, I can sample specific people looking for specific results thereby skewing the statistics, so who is wrong?

 

[2Timothy2:15]

That is a serious accusation. What evidence do you have to support it?

Observation, if you do not realize the NFL is used to push certain agendas you really are not paying attention.

You really think all that tax and government money that goes into the NFL is given freely without a purpose? Kind of naive.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Here are some more stats. Stats clearly show that more white people are killed by police year over year than any other race.

POLICE KILLING OF BLACKS: Data for 2015, 2016, 2017 - Sociology Toolbox

Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Law Enforcement

https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2013/table/table_44_leos_fk_race_and_sex_of_known_offender_2004-2013.xls

 

[RDKirk]

So then you contradict your original statement. Anyhow, I can sample specific people looking for specific results thereby skewing the statistics, so who is wrong?

No, I didn't contradict my statement. I said statistics must always be interpreted.

They have always been interpreted when reported. It's up to the user of the data to determine whether they've been interpreted according to a reliable agenda.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Here are some more stats. Stats clearly show that more white people are killed by police year over year than any other race.

Yes, and more right handed people are on death row than left handers. That's not the relevant statistic.

Even our local curmudgeon OldWiseGuy conceded this point. Black people are more likely to be killed by police, year after year. That is the relevant statistic.

 

[RDKirk]

Yes, and more right handed people are on death row than left handers. That's not the relevant statistic.

Even our local curmudgeon OldWiseGuy conceded this point. Black people are more likely to be killed by police, year after year. That is the relevant statistic.

What's the more relevant statistic to me is that old black men standing in their own driveways in middle-class neighborhoods are more likely to be shot as well.

 

[Belk]

Observation, if you do not realize the NFL is used to push certain agendas you really are not paying attention.

You really think all that tax and government money that goes into the NFL is given freely without a purpose? Kind of naive.

So that would be "No". Perhaps you should just say that next time?

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Yes, and more right handed people are on death row than left handers. That's not the relevant statistic.

Even our local curmudgeon OldWiseGuy conceded this point. Black people are more likely to be killed by police, year after year. That is the relevant statistic.

If black people are more likely to be killed the numbers would match, which they don't. At some point people have to ask themselves just how much propaganda have you ingested verses what is real. Let's not look at the cultural implications, I mean then someone would have to be accountable right.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

So that would be "No". Perhaps you should just say that next time?

Sigh...

The NFL gets tax payer money to build those multi billion dollar stadiums. The politicians get the taxes passed and approve them. The politicians are controlled by interest and corporate lobby groups. The masters tell the hirelings what to do. Wake up man.

 

[Belk]

Sigh...

The NFL gets tax payer money to build those multi billion dollar stadiums. The politicians get the taxes passed and approve them. The politicians are controlled by interest and corporate lobby groups. The masters tell the hirelings what to do. Wake up man.

So you have insinuated. I require actual evidence prior to believing peoples claims.

 

[RDKirk]

If black people are more likely to be killed the numbers would match, which they don't. At some point people have to ask themselves just how much propaganda have you ingested verses what is real. Let's not look at the cultural implications, I mean then someone would have to be accountable right.

No the numbers don't match because the statistics are not being interpreted correctly. In fact, data isn't really being

For instance, the statistics you're looking at do not correct or correlate for economic strata of the victims, community type and size of the incident, or region.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

So you have insinuated. I require actual evidence prior to believing peoples claims.

This took me a whole 30 seconds to find. I won't spend to much more time commenting on this if your unwilling to look for yourself.

The Corrupt Bargain Between Politicians and the NFL
NFL now defined by its lack of morals
NFL gets billions in subsidies from U.S. taxpayers

Now if you think you are going to find some source that explains all the intricacies to you I can't help. You have to connect the dots yourself. But you can go on thinking this so called protest is spontaneous and that no one is pushing agendas to the huge NFL fan base via the NFL machine. Or you can look deeper and take off the blinders and see NFL players are being used as pawns to bring further divide irregarless of how genuine they are about it individually.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

When was the last time you heard of tanks being called out to put down a protest?

As @tadoflamb has already posted out in his post... Last winter in Standing Rock.

I thought I would add a couple of more pictures to reiterate his point.

 

[essentialsaltes]

If black people are more likely to be killed the numbers would match, which they don't.

Seriously?

There were about 750 murders in Chicago in 2016. And 7,300 murders in the South in 2016.

So you are ten times more likely to be murdered in the South than in Chicago. If people in Chicago are more likely to be killed the numbers would match, which they don't.