Protestant Poll: Peter in Rome?

[TheDag]

Well since one claims that Peter was the first pope and in Rome then the scriptures would show us this revelation of truth. But since it does not then it must not be important or God would have revealed this in the scriptures. How many children Adam and Eve had is not important to salvation. What is important are the ones mentioned for Jesus comes from the seed of David. We see through the scriptures it is Paul in Rome.

George washington has nothing to do with the salvation of man or the body of Christ.

So why why why why are you defending the right of someone to believe something that is not mentioned in the bible?????? If as you say here it is not a matter of salvation so it isn't mentioned then you are acknowledging that not everything is contained in the bible. yet you also defend a person for believing something on which the bible is silent on! Your viewpoint contradicts itself. Peter (or Paul for that matter) being in Rome or not are not important to salvation. therefore the fact that the bible does not comment on Peter being in Rome does not prove anything. I have not seen one person here deny Paul was in Rome.

the whole point of my question about children of Adam and Eve is to show that not everything is mentioned in the bible. You seemed to think it was although now have said not everything is. So stop saying some beliefs are true despite there being no biblical evidence and saying other beliefs aren't true because there is no biblical evidence.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Hi Josh
This is the problem with coming into the discussion late. Little lamb is indeed contending that Peter was never in Rome and says he only holds beliefs that the bible supports......

Well, since the Bible never records Peter's death, I guess that means there's a 2000 year old wrinkly Peter walking around somewhere, right Lamb? I mean, "Sola Scriptura" baby, the Bible Alone! It doesn't say Peter died, so he didn't die, right?

 

[TheDag]

I only wear a seatbelt because it is the Law here.

But you don't wear seat belts! The bible doesn't mention seat belts so they can't exist and therefore you must be wearing something else but not a seat belt.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well, since the Bible never records Peter's death, I guess that means there's a 2000 year old wrinkly Peter walking around somewhere, right Lamb? I mean, "Sola Scriptura" baby, the Bible Alone! It doesn't say Peter died, so he didn't die, right?

Don't know. Ya think he might be one of these since tradition says he was executed?

Reve 6:10 And they cry out to a voice, great, saying "till when the Owner/despothV <1203> the Holy and True not Thou are judging and avenging the blood of us out-of the ones homing/dwelling upon the land?"

 

[bbbbbbb]

Well, all I would say to that is, after two thousand years, it is logical that the massive changes in size and scope of the Body of Christ would be reflected in the size and scope of the office of its earthly pastor.

Thus, whether or not Peter was ever in Rome is really a moot question. Assuming that he was in Rome and, despite Paul's presence there, actually served as an elder or overseer in the church there, his performance of that office bears virtually no similarity to that now exercised by the Pope.

I think we are in agreement. I think I understand why the thread has devolved so rapidly. It is really meaningless, in the final analysis, to take any position on the presence of Peter in Rome.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Thus, whether or not Peter was ever in Rome is really a moot question. Assuming that he was in Rome and, despite Paul's presence there, actually served as an elder or overseer in the church there, his performance of that office bears virtually no similarity to that now exercised by the Pope.

I think we are in agreement. I think I understand why the thread has devolved so rapidly. It is really meaningless, in the final analysis, to take any position on the presence of Peter in Rome.

Would you also agree that the Church today - however you want to understand the word - bears virtually no similarity to the early Church? And therefore its also moot as to whether or not the pope's office closely resembles Peter's ministry?

(Although as a side note: The Pope today still does all the things Jesus commanded Peter and the apostles to do: Teach, preach, and baptise, feed the lambs and feed the sheep.)

 

[calluna]

Would you also agree that the Church today - however you want to understand the word - bears virtually no similarity to the early Church?

Can there be a more calamitous admission?

 

[MamaZ]

So why why why why are you defending the right of someone to believe something that is not mentioned in the bible?????? If as you say here it is not a matter of salvation so it isn't mentioned then you are acknowledging that not everything is contained in the bible. yet you also defend a person for believing something on which the bible is silent on! Your viewpoint contradicts itself. Peter (or Paul for that matter) being in Rome or not are not important to salvation. therefore the fact that the bible does not comment on Peter being in Rome does not prove anything. I have not seen one person here deny Paul was in Rome.

the whole point of my question about children of Adam and Eve is to show that not everything is mentioned in the bible. You seemed to think it was although now have said not everything is. So stop saying some beliefs are true despite there being no biblical evidence and saying other beliefs aren't true because there is no biblical evidence.

Because the very thought of Peter being the first Pope effects scriptual truth. Paul was sent to the gentiles. We see this from scripture. So this pope thing has many holes that cannot be plugged.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

Can there be a more calamitous admission?

Nothing calamitous about it. Did you forget my previous post which you responded to? And I quote:

Irellevant. To expect the Church and its various aspects to look like they did in the first century is illogical. The Body of Christ is a living thing, and like all living things it grows and learns and changes appearence.

 

[calluna]

Nothing calamitous about it.

That's for others to decide.

Did you forget my previous post which you responded to?

No. Read my reply again.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

That's for others to decide....

No its not. Its for God to decide

 

[calluna]

No its not. Its for God to decide

Is God not going to judge us on the basis of our decisions?

 

[TheDag]

Well, since the Bible never records Peter's death, I guess that means there's a 2000 year old wrinkly Peter walking around somewhere, right Lamb? I mean, "Sola Scriptura" baby, the Bible Alone! It doesn't say Peter died, so he didn't die, right?

Although your understanding of sola scripture appears to be wrong.

 

[TheDag]

Because the very thought of Peter being the first Pope effects scriptual truth. Paul was sent to the gentiles. We see this from scripture. So this pope thing has many holes that cannot be plugged.

makes no difference to me at all if he was the first pope or not. In any case what we are discussing is not if he was the first pope but if he was ever in Rome. A person has made two claims one of which means that the bible must say Peter was never in Rome. I am simply asking for that evidence. I do not see it in any bible translation that I read.
As for your comment about Paul being sent to the gentiles being in the bible makes no difference. Of course Paul being sent to the gentiles is not a salvation issue.

 

[TheDag]

Is God not going to judge us on the basis of our decisions?

However this statement does not make any comment on what decisions we make and don't make. After all the bible is very clear that certain decisions will never be ours to make. So just because you can make a decision does not mean we should.

 

[Thekla]

Because the very thought of Peter being the first Pope effects scriptual truth. Paul was sent to the gentiles. We see this from scripture. So this pope thing has many holes that cannot be plugged.

The Jewish Community of Rome is probably the oldest in the world, with a continuous existence from classical times down to the present day. The first record of Jews in Rome is in 161 BCE, when Jason b. Elazar and Eupolemus b. Johanan are said to have gone there as envoys from Judah Maccabee.

from here:

http://www.bh.org.il/Communities/Archive/rome.asp
(website of Museum of the Jewish People)

As such, if Paul ministered only to gentiles, he would not have ministered to the Jewish community of Rome.

 

[LJSGM]

Irellevant. To expect the Church and its various aspects to look like they did in the first century is illogical. The Body of Christ is a living thing, and like all living things it grows and learns and changes appearence.

Unless it grows and changes into a monster, then we can judge more clearly.

Would the true church torture and kill millions of people? NO

Matthew 7

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

That is not to say that the RCC does not contain true christians within it...

much more today then there were before.

 

[TheDag]

That is not to say that the RCC does not contain true christians within it...

Just like it is with every other denomination.

 

[MamaZ]

makes no difference to me at all if he was the first pope or not. In any case what we are discussing is not if he was the first pope but if he was ever in Rome. A person has made two claims one of which means that the bible must say Peter was never in Rome. I am simply asking for that evidence. I do not see it in any bible translation that I read.
As for your comment about Paul being sent to the gentiles being in the bible makes no difference. Of course Paul being sent to the gentiles is not a salvation issue.

How so?

 

[MamaZ]

Thekla there were Jewish people of course in Rome.