Protestant errors and inventions

[Rhamiel]

priests often visit nurseing homes and hospitals and rule areas, not everyday, but you can probably recieve communion once a month

 

[katholikos]

priests often visit nurseing homes and hospitals and rule areas, not everyday, but you can probably recieve communion once a month

And I would like to add that bringing the Body and Blood of Christ to immobile people is an ancient practice just as the mass is an ancient practice, both of which are seen in a letter that St. Justin wrote to the pagan emperor Antoninus Pius in the year 155 AD, explaining how Christians worshipped:



[SIZE=-1]On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: 'Amen.' [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the "eucharisted" bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent. (St. Justin, Apol. 1, 65-67)[/SIZE]

 

[katholikos]

"Give us today our daily bread" (Mt 6:11; Lk 11:3)

Lets see if Lammy can help us out here. I heard that the phrase "daily bread" in the original language means much more than just "daily". In the Duoey Rheims Bible, it says "give us this day our supersubstantial bread." Now that translation is probably a little off, but I think it means more than just "daily." Yes?

 

[Heber]

priests often visit nursing homes and hospitals and rural areas, not everyday, but you can probably recieve communion once a month

In every every city, town, village and hamlet in the world, even on a monthly basis? I think not! So what happens to the eternal wellbeing of those who are denied the sacrament because it is not available to them through no fault of their own, other than the fact that they live where they do?

Katholikos, with respect, I am not talking about 155AD. I am talking about today -in the here and now of this world. If we are talking about the salvation of the people how does the RCC offer the sacraments to everyone in the world?

 

[katholikos]

In every every city, town, village and hamlet in the world, even on a monthly basis? I think not! So what happens to the eternal wellbeing of those who are denied the sacrament because it is not available to them through no fault of their own, other than the fact that they live where they do?

You said it yourself: "...through no fault of their own." God does not hold us resposible for matters beyond our control.

A good analogy is our belief in Baptism. We believe that Baptism is how one is "born again" and that Baptism is necessary for salvation. Yet, if someone desires baptism, but dies before they are able to be baptised, this is not held against them because God knew their heart and their intentions. We call this a baptism of desire.

Christ lays down rules for us to follow, but God is also a God of mercy and understanding, and a person with a correct knowledge of Catholic doctrine knows how those two things balance out.

 

[Heber]

You said it yourself: "...through no fault of their own."

Isn't that rather convenient -because the RCC cannot fulfill its dream of evangelisation of the world, or the great commission, because it simply cannot put priests/churches in the right places all round the world, G_d steps in and says, don't worry, I'll take care of that, I'll let them in to heaven as a special favour to you guys.

What, then, is the point of evangelism or the great commission - there is no need for either because if you tell the people about Yeshua and they don't listen they are condemned, but if you do not tell them, G_d will let them in using the above rubric. So we can, indeed, eat drink and be merry because as long as we avoid hearing about Yeshua we are safe - I can hear their voices: "it's not our fault the RCC didn't provide the necessary ministry but, hey, we're ok, G_d has a special deal for us guys".

 

[katholikos]

The Church evangelized the world long before you protestants came along, and we still do. Protestant missionaries often just proselytize peoples who are already Catholic Christians, and call that "missionary work". <<snort>>

Still, if the church fails in its duties, God will hold those who failed to account. But that has nothing to do with what I was saying, which is that if a bed-ridden person does not receive the Eucharist because nobody came to their house, God will not hold that person accountable. That is what I meant.

 

[MamaZ]

These errors and inventions are not Biblcal and are not part of historic Christianity.

Total Depravity of Man
1Co 15:21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
Rom 3:10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
Rom 3:12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
Rom 3:13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
Rom 3:14 "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
Rom 3:15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
Rom 3:16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
Rom 3:17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
Rom 3:18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."





Enthroning the Bible in your Heart

I don't know what you are saying here..
Deu 30:8 "And you shall again obey the LORD, and observe all His commandments which I command you today.
Deu 30:9 "Then the LORD your God will prosper you abundantly in all the work of your hand, in the offspring of your body and in the offspring of your cattle and in the produce of your ground, for the LORD will again rejoice over you for good, just as He rejoiced over your fathers;
Deu 30:10 if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul.
Deu 30:11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
Deu 30:12 "It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
Deu 30:13 "Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
Deu 30:14 "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.
Deu 30:15 "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity;
Deu 30:16 in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it.
Deu 30:17 "But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them,
Deu 30:18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it.
Deu 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
Deu 30:20 by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them."
And we all want to be as king David was..
Psa 119:11 Your word I have treasured in my heart, That I may not sin against You.
Psa 119:12 Blessed are You, O LORD; Teach me Your statutes.
Psa 119:13 With my lips I have told of All the ordinances of Your mouth.
Psa 119:14 I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies, As much as in all riches.
Psa 119:15 I will meditate on Your precepts And regard Your ways.
Psa 119:16 I shall delight in Your statutes; I shall not forget Your word.

 

[MamaZ]

...

 

[katholikos]

~Asking Jesus into your heart... Do you
think it's sinful or just ignorant or..?

No. I think it is used as a substitute for all the things Christ commanded us to do, as when some people will say, "Awww, you don't need to do all that stuff. Just ask Jesus into your heart and you're saved!" This is where the error lays.

~Eternal Security... Jesus did say nothing/nobody
could snatch them from His hand.

Yes, but He never said you could not willingly let go of that hand

~SS... I don't believe in Bible alone, but rather in Bible as the final authority, which most SSers here agree with.
If you run into a Bible alone person, let me know, I'll speak with him (Scripture is one of my fav subjects)

A book cannot excersise authority. A book can only be read and interpreted. Christ gave authority to men, to be able to "bind and loose." The scripture is plain and clear on that.

 

[MamaZ]

Ask Jesus into Your Heart

Rev 3:20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.


The Rapture


1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.

 

[MamaZ]

Altar Call
Mat 5:23 "Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.



Eternal Security

Joh 3:14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
Joh 3:15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

1Jn 5:11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
1Jn 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[MamaZ]

"Once Saved Always Saved"
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
Joh 10:26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
Joh 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
Joh 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Joh 10:29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 "I and the Father are one."




Sola Fide - Salvation by "Faith Alone"

Rom 3:21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Rom 3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
Rom 3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
Rom 3:30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[MamaZ]

Sola Scriptura - "Bible Alone" One must actually know what sola Scriptura means.. LOL.
Luk 8:10 And He said, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.
Luk 8:11"Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.

Rev 6:9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

[MamaZ]

Yes, but He never said you could not willingly let go of that hand

You are a somebody and can't even snatch yourself from His hands..

 

[MamaZ]

The bible is much more than a book.. It is the very word of God in written form.. For all scripture that is contained in that book is the inspiration of God.. Even Nehemiah opened up the Book when Gods people repented..

 

[Heber]

Still, if the church fails in its duties, God will hold those who failed to account. But that has nothing to do with what I was saying, which is that if a bed-ridden person does not receive the Eucharist because nobody came to their house, God will not hold that person accountable. That is what I meant.

Yes, but you keep limiting the questions I am asking to what must be a sort of 'stock' answer. I asked the question about a much, much wider range of people than just those in the western world who are bed-ridden.

Your pure assumption about me being a Protestant is interesting, to say the least.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

As stated, I find the Eucharist as the Real Presence to be where Protestants have fallen into error the greatest.

It is something that we know to be true and we have centuries of church teaching of the Eucharist. Yet for some Protestants all history before the "Protestant Reformation" is disregarded or ignored or twisted.

I showed how Martin Luther, who started the Protestant Reformation, said the Eucharist is the flesh of Christ. It was from Calvin and his personal interpretation of scripture, lacking any historical evidence, that the Eucharist became only symbolic in the minds of those that chose this teaching.

So this to me is one of the most obvious errors that has come from Protestantism and Sola (Solo) Scriptura.

 

[MamaZ]

As stated, I find the Eucharist as the Real Presence to be where Protestants have fallen into error the greatest.

It is something that we know to be true and we have centuries of church teaching of the Eucharist. Yet for some Protestants all history before the "Protestant Reformation" is disregarded or ignored or twisted.

I showed how Martin Luther, who started the Protestant Reformation, said the Eucharist is the flesh of Christ. It was from Calvin and his personal interpretation of scripture, lacking any historical evidence, that the Eucharist became only symbolic in the minds of those that chose this teaching.

So this to me is one of the most obvious errors that has come from Protestantism and Sola (Solo) Scriptura.

Actually it is not the error of the protestants but of the CC teaching.. For Jesus tells us that He will not participate in the last supper taking of the cup and bread until the wedding feast but yet there are those who say He does participate in this again and again and again..

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Actually it is not the error of the protestants but of the CC teaching.. For Jesus tells us that He will not participate in the last supper taking of the cup and bread until the wedding feast but yet there are those who say He does participate in this again and again and again..

Have you heard of Scott Hahn?

He wrote a book called the 4th Cup and it is very good. When Jesus was at the Last Supper He said that he would not drink from the vine again until what? And when Jesus was on the cross the guard placed hisop with wine to His lips and He drink of the Vine. So what does this mean?

You really should check out the 4th Cup since it helps us to understand the Jewish Sader meal and what was taking place (more fully). Something you cannot get from simply reading the scriptures on your own, no matter how simple you think it is.

*if anyone is interested I have a recording that I can let you listen to. Just PM me and I will send the link and sign on.