Protestant errors and inventions

[MamaZ]

Thing with the Ecuharist is that God is not a God of illusion but a God of truth. For what Christ did on the cross was a one time pouring out His blood on the cross once for all.. We no longer know Christ according to the flesh. So when one partakes of the cup and bread we are doing this in Rememberance that our righteousness is imputed to us through Christs life death and resurrection..

 

[Zoness]

These errors and inventions are not Biblcal and are not part of historic Christianity.

Let's get it on!

Total Depravity of Man

Wouldn't it be considered the concept of Original Sin?

Enthroning the Bible in your Heart

I'm not quite sure what you mean. The bible is important but Jesus my savior, not the book.

Ask Jesus into Your Heart

I asked Jesus into my heart of March 16, 2008 Whats wrong with accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior?

The Rapture

I agree that it makes for a good scare tactic but it could happen.

Altar Call

No it's not traditional, my current church does it and I think it's a good thing but not required by any means.

Eternal Security

?

"Once Saved Always Saved"

Can I assume that is what you mean by Eternal Security? Besides I subscribe to the Arminian idea of free will not so much OSAS.

Sola Fide - Salvation by "Faith Alone"

Faith is what saves you and good works are the fruit by which you work to please your Savior.

Sola Scriptura - "Bible Alone"

I consult the Bible on all matters of faith but that doesn't mean there aren't other sources of Christian wisdom; there has to be considering that we can't even agree on the Canon or the best translations in various languages. It's a matter I pray about.



I'm home sick so I have too much free time

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Thing with the Ecuharist is that God is not a God of illusion but a God of truth. For what Christ did on the cross was a one time pouring out His blood on the cross once for all.. We no longer know Christ according to the flesh. So when one partakes of the cup and bread we are doing this in Rememberance that our righteousness is imputed to us through Christs life death and resurrection..

This is where your interpretation of scripture is different than mine. Our difference is not so unlike that of Calvin and Luther.

Crypto-Calvinism and Sacramental Union

Your understanding of the Eucharist is like that of John Calvin. Both sides argued this and eventually seperated because both sides showed with scripture alone that their interpretation was plausible.

 

[MamaZ]

Christ no longer has blood. For He is in His glorified Body..Blood is corruptable.. The blood poured out on the cross was the confirmation to this is my Body and this is my blood so do this in rememberance of Me..

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Christ no longer has blood. For He is in His glorified Body..Blood is corruptable.. The blood poured out on the cross was the confirmation to this is my Body and this is my blood so do this in rememberance of Me..

Did you read my post above this one of yours?

 

[MamaZ]

Did you read my post above this one of yours?

I did. But there is only one truth.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

These errors and inventions are not Biblcal and are not part of historic Christianity.

Total Depravity of Man
Enthroning the Bible in your Heart
Ask Jesus into Your Heart
The Rapture
Altar Call
Eternal Security
"Once Saved Always Saved"
Sola Fide - Salvation by "Faith Alone"
Sola Scriptura - "Bible Alone"

Actually, I agree that most everything on that list is neither biblical nor part of historic Christianity, except for total depravity (and sola fide, but I'll get to that in a second).

But you're wrong there, though- total depravity does have a heritage in the church, namely, St. Augustine. He taught total depravity (ie, the corruption of sin has infected, in some way, every faculty and area of the human person, including the will) in his On the Free Choice of the Will. I would also remind you that this doctrine does not say that the capacity of the will has been eliminated entirely, but only in the person's capacity to freely choose God, as they are otherwise enslaved to their first father, Adam, and his father, Satan.

And by the way, no good, historical Protestant would ever call the doctrine of sola fide 'salvation by faith alone.' It's justification by (ultimate cause) grace alone, through (instrumental cause) faith alone. So technically, it's not really on your list.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I did. But there is only one truth.

Yours?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not everyone is able to accept the Eucharist for what it is.

I sometimes wonder if God allows Eucharistic Miracles just for those that have trouble believing?

But this is indeed hard for people to accept, even the disciples found this truth hard to accept.

"Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?" Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?"

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7270970
Acts 1 and Revelation 11 Ascending in cloud

Acts 1:9 And these things saying, of looking of them, He was taken up, and a Cloud/nefelh <3507> received Him from their eyes.

Reve 11:11 And after the three days and half-equal, a spirit of life out of the God entered on them and they stand on their feet and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "Ascend ye hence"! And they ascended into the heaven in the Cloud and observed them their enemies

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

These errors and inventions are not Biblcal

Total Depravity of Man

In terms of initial justification (which is the ONLY thing it relates to), I think this is biblical. Start a thread about it if you like. BTW, the concept is not only biblical but I understand was popularized by St. Augustine.

Enthroning the Bible in your Heart
Ask Jesus into Your Heart

Altar Call

While I've heard these thoughts, they are doctrines in no Protestant denomination known to me.

"Once Saved Always Saved"

This is a concept among some Calvinists, and thus is not a PROTESTANT idea but an idea of SOME Calvinists.

Sola Fide - Salvation by "Faith Alone"

Odd that you would mention this because we have TWO active threads on this very topic right now in GT. And in both of them, Catholics are arguing that there's nothing wrong with Sola Fide. In one of them, I was rebuked for even suggesting that Catholicism disagrees with it and in the other, St. Clement is quoted as clearly teaching it and Catholics have been coming to his support.

Sola Scriptura - "Bible Alone"

Actually, Moses "invented" this. The praxis is used all over Scripture (some 50 times by Jesus Himself). BTW, Sola Scriptura does not mean "Bible Alone."





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[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by MamaZ I did. But there is only one truth.

Yours?

Or yours?

John 12:32 And I if-ever may be exalted/lifted-up out of the Land all I shall be drawing to Myself.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

I showed how Martin Luther, who started the Protestant Reformation, said the Eucharist is the flesh of Christ. It was from Calvin and his personal interpretation of scripture, lacking any historical evidence, that the Eucharist became only symbolic in the minds of those that chose this teaching.

So this to me is one of the most obvious errors that has come from Protestantism and Sola (Solo) Scriptura.

1. No Protestant denomination uses the Catholic strawman of Solo Toma...

2. Luther taught that the Eucharistic texts mean what they say. It's the fruit of western Catholic Scholasticism in the middle ages that invented the distinctive, unique dogma of Transubstantiation - dogmatizing the central point of alchemy called "transubstantiation" and (to get itself out of the problem that created) also dogmatized Aristotle's very weird theory of "accidents." The RCC made this all dogma in 1551 as a tool to anathematize Luther (albeit after his death) on this point since he did not regard alchemy's focus or Aristotle's theory to be dogma.




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[chestertonrules]

2. Luther taught that the Eucharistic texts mean what they say. It's the fruit of western Catholic Scholasticism in the middle ages that invented the distinctive, unique dogma of Transubstantiation - dogmatizing the central point of alchemy called "transubstantiation" and (to get itself out of the problem that created) also dogmatized Aristotle's very weird theory of "accidents." The RCC made this all dogma in 1551 as a tool to anathematize Luther (albeit after his death) on this point since he did not regard alchemy's focus or Aristotle's theory to be dogma.

You know that this is not true, and we both know what that makes you.



.[/quote]

 

[AmericanCatholic]

Luther taught that the Eucharistic texts mean what they say.

Really? Luther taught that the Scriptures might be truthful? That's a good first step to becoming a Catholic!

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Really? Luther taught that the Scriptures might be truthful? That's a good first step to becoming a Catholic!

Actually, one would have to reject the Catholic Church and embrace Sola Scriptura.

Yes, Luther taught that "bread" = bread, "wine/cup/fruit of the vine" = wine, "body" = body, "blood" = blood, "is" = is. It's the RCC that (since 1551) denies this. It now teaches that "bread" = bread ONLY before the Consecration, after that it means the Aristotelian ACCIDENT of bread. "Wine" = wine ONLY before the Consecration, after its meaning changes and it refers only to the Aristotelian ACCIDENT of wine. And that "is" doesn't mean "is" but rather "alchemicly transubstainiated"




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[LittleLambofJesus]

You know that this is not true, and we both know what that makes you.

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[/quote]How come no response to my post #49

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7270970
Acts 1 and Revelation 11 Ascending in cloud

Acts 1:9 And these things saying, of looking of them, He was taken up, and a Cloud/nefelh <3507> received Him from their eyes.

Reve 11:11 And after the three days and half-equal, a spirit of life out of the God entered on them and they stand on their feet and great fear falls upon the ones observing them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "Ascend ye hence"! And they ascended into the heaven in the Cloud and observed them their enemies

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

You know that this is not true

Actually, this is exactly as it was explained to me by CATHOLIC teachers.

and we both know what that makes you.

If the RCC does not teach transubstantiation or that what "remains" are "Accidents" then you are free to "correct" me. But your accusation, IMHO, simply means you need to flame me since you cannot correct me.





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[AmericanCatholic]

Actually, one would have to reject the Catholic Church and embrace Sola Scriptura.

Like all these denominations do?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Like all these denominations do?

I remain SOLO SCRIPTURA

 

[chestertonrules]

Actually, this is exactly as it was explained to me by CATHOLIC teachers.










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Your semantics games are dishonest. I've posted this several times before, maybe you should read it.


III. THE EUCHARIST IN THE ECONOMY OF SALVATION
The signs of bread and wine 1333 At the heart of the Eucharistic celebration are the bread and wine that, by the words of Christ and the invocation of the Holy Spirit, become Christ's Body and Blood. Faithful to the Lord's command the Church continues to do, in his memory and until his glorious return, what he did on the eve of his Passion: "He took bread. . . ." "He took the cup filled with wine. . . ." The signs of bread and wine become, in a way surpassing understanding, the Body and Blood of Christ; they continue also to signify the goodness of creation. Thus in the Offertory we give thanks to the Creator for bread and wine,154

1376 The Council of Trent summarizes the Catholic faith by declaring: "Because Christ our Redeemer said that it was truly his body that he was offering under the species of bread, it has always been the conviction of the Church of God, and this holy Council now declares again, that by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation."206



http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm