Protestant errors and inventions

[katholikos]

These errors and inventions are not Biblcal and are not part of historic Christianity.

Total Depravity of Man
Enthroning the Bible in your Heart
Ask Jesus into Your Heart
The Rapture
Altar Call
Eternal Security
"Once Saved Always Saved"
Sola Fide - Salvation by "Faith Alone"
Sola Scriptura - "Bible Alone"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Sola Scriptura - "Bible Alone"

Don't leave out "Solo Scriptura"

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I think the biggest error was when Calvin said the Eucharist was only symbolic. Even Martin Luther thought that it was a very serious error and said anyone that believes that is not Christian.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think the biggest error was when Calvin said the Eucharist was only symbolic. Even Martin Luther thought that it was a very serious error and said anyone that believes that is not Christian.

Perhaps there was a disagreement on what ingredients to use for the wafer

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7286887&page=10

The priest was correct (if they were indeed gluten free as you suggest) and it is wrong to use hosts which are made of anything but wheat and water. There are low gluten hosts that are perfectly acceptable but if they are gluten free, they cannot be used.

From the GIRM:
320. The bread for celebrating the Eucharist must be made only from wheat, must be recently baked, and, according to the ancient tradition of the Latin Church, must be unleavened.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Perhaps there was a disagreement on what ingredients to use for the wafer

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7286887&page=10

The priest was correct (if they were indeed gluten free as you suggest) and it is wrong to use hosts which are made of anything but wheat and water. There are low gluten hosts that are perfectly acceptable but if they are gluten free, they cannot be used.

From the GIRM:
320. The bread for celebrating the Eucharist must be made only from wheat, must be recently baked, and, according to the ancient tradition of the Latin Church, must be unleavened.

Here is something Luther wrote:

"Why then should we not much more say in the Supper, "This is my body," even though bread and body are two distinct substances, and the word "this" indicates the bread? Here, too, out of two kinds of objects a union has taken place, which I shall call a "sacramental union," because Christ’s body and the bread are given to us as a sacrament. This is not a natural or personal union, as is the case with God and Christ. It is also perhaps a different union from that which the dove has with the Holy Spirit, and the flame with the angel, but it is also assuredly a sacramental union"

And yet most Protestant churches do not believe in the "Real Presence".

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Here is something Luther wrote:

"Why then should we not much more say in the Supper, "This is my body," even though bread and body are two distinct substances, and the word "this" indicates the bread? Here, too, out of two kinds of objects a union has taken place, which I shall call a "sacramental union," because Christ’s body and the bread are given to us as a sacrament. This is not a natural or personal union, as is the case with God and Christ. It is also perhaps a different union from that which the dove has with the Holy Spirit, and the flame with the angel, but it is also assuredly a sacramental union"

And yet most Protestant churches do not believe in the "Real Presence".

I do not believe in it. Both that and the trinity are "mysteries" with the RCC and one reason I am not RC.
Someone brought this up on another board.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7290385

Originally Posted by Gracchus

The Catholics admit that you cannot make sense of the trinity. They just call it a "holy mystery" that must be accepted by faith.

There is something almost refreshing in honest insanity.


​

The Eucharist is also a "Holy Mystery". It was so mysterious to me I left the RCC.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Not everyone is able to accept the Eucharist for what it is.

I sometimes wonder if God allows Eucharistic Miracles just for those that have trouble believing?

But this is indeed hard for people to accept, even the disciples found this truth hard to accept.

"Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?" Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?"

 

[sunlover1]

These errors and inventions are not Biblcal and are not part of historic Christianity.

Total Depravity of Man
Enthroning the Bible in your Heart
Ask Jesus into Your Heart
The Rapture
Altar Call
Eternal Security
"Once Saved Always Saved"
Sola Fide - Salvation by "Faith Alone"
Sola Scriptura - "Bible Alone"

Hi there Kath.
~Enthroning the Bible in your heart? Hmm
(Never heard about that one)

~Asking Jesus into your heart... Do you
think it's sinful or just ignorant or..?

~Dunno anything about the Rapture (thank God)

~Altar Calls... Cant hurt really imo, but I agree,
the world is the field, (not the church building)

~Eternal Security... Jesus did say nothing/nobody
could snatch them from His hand.

~Salvation by faith alone (you mean rather than faith + works?)

~SS... I don't believe in Bible alone, but rather in Bible as the
final authority, which most SSers here agree with.
If you run into a Bible alone person, let me know, I'll
speak with him (Scripture is one of my fav subjects)

I think the biggest error was when Calvin said the Eucharist was only symbolic. Even Martin Luther thought that it was a very serious error and said anyone that believes that is not Christian.

Here is something Luther wrote:

"Why then should we not much more say in the Supper, "This is my body," even though bread and body are two distinct substances, and the word "this" indicates the bread? Here, too, out of two kinds of objects a union has taken place, which I shall call a "sacramental union," because Christ’s body and the bread are given to us as a sacrament. This is not a natural or personal union, as is the case with God and Christ. It is also perhaps a different union from that which the dove has with the Holy Spirit, and the flame with the angel, but it is also assuredly a sacramental union"

And yet most Protestant churches do not believe in the "Real Presence".

HiJack!
I think it's a mystery and that that is all that we can know.
He said take and eat/drink, this is my body and blood,
do it in remembrance of me.
so we take and drink it and remember Him

I dont see why we need to call it anything more.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

c

HiJack!
I think it's a mystery and that that is all that we can know.
He said take and eat/drink, this is my body and blood,
do it in remembrance of me.
so we take and drink it and remember Him

I dont see why we need to call it anything more.

The Eucharist is meant to be presented daily and to revisit Jesus on the cross and share in His feast. This feast is the eating of His body and Jesus spoke to His disciples about this in John 6. It seems rather important to share in this daily offering so as to have "Life" in us. That is one of many reasons as to why it is something we are called to do and do daily if possible.

"I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world"

And like the Manna it gives us life and is given daily.

'Our ancestors ate manna in the desert, as it is written: 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'" So Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."'

 

[sunlover1]

I sometimes wonder if God allows Eucharistic Miracles just for those that have trouble believing?

God is incredible, He will do what He will do regardless of how or
why we might think He does.
He so desires to bless HIs people, but He doesnt bless just because
someone is 'right' or hold back His blessing if someone is "in error"
If that were the case, there'd be NO blessing,b ecause we're all
in error in many ways.

I remember foolishly and tearfully asking one day, "What did I
ever do to have you bless me so?"
He said, "I will bless who I will and curse who I will".
IOW, ... Just because I want to (?)

 

[JacktheCatholic]

God is incredible, He will do what He will do regardless of how or
why we might think He does.
He so desires to bless HIs people, but He doesnt bless just because
someone is 'right' or hold back His blessing if someone is "in error"
If that were the case, there'd be NO blessing,b ecause we're all
in error in many ways.

I remember foolishly and tearfully asking one day, "What did I
ever do to have you bless me so?"
He said, "I will bless who I will and curse who I will".
IOW, ... Just because I want to (?)

God is an awesome Father. He loves us all no matter who we are and what we do. He will forgive us anything and after He forgives us it is forgotten. Truly we are all blessed to have such a Father.

 

[sunlover1]

The Eucharist is meant to be presented daily

Where do you get daily? Not that I think daily is bad.

and to revisit Jesus on the cross and share in His feast. This feast is the eating of His body and Jesus spoke to His disciples about this in John 6. It seems rather important to share in this daily offering so as to have "Life" in us. That is one of many reasons as to why it is something we are called to do and do daily if possible.

"I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world

I didnt mean to suggest that it's not important.
After all, He said to do it. It's a blessing!

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Where do you get daily? Not that I think daily is bad.

"Give us today our daily bread" (Mt 6:11; Lk 11:3)

It is used in the "Our Father" prayer as well. It is also the reason the church met daily as a group with an Apostle or one ordained by an Apostle or ordained by someone that was ordained by an Apostle, and so on...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

"Give us today our daily bread" (Mt 6:11; Lk 11:3)

It is used in the "Our Father" prayer as well. It is also the reason the church met daily as a group with an Apostle or one ordained by an Apostle or ordained by someone that was ordained by an Apostle, and so on...

Matt 6:9 "Thus then be praying ye! 'Father! of us, the in the heavens, let be being hallowed!/agiasqhtw <37> (5682) the Name of Thee

Reve 22:11 The one injuring let him injure! further. And the filthy-one, let him be being filthy! still. And the righteous-one, righteousness [*let him do!] still. And the holy-one let him be being hallowed!/agiasqhtw <37> (5682) still.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

These errors and inventions are not Biblcal and are not part of historic Christianity.

Total Depravity of Man
Enthroning the Bible in your Heart
Ask Jesus into Your Heart
The Rapture
Altar Call
Eternal Security
"Once Saved Always Saved"
Sola Fide - Salvation by "Faith Alone"
Sola Scriptura - "Bible Alone"

Undefined assertions - "Biblical" and "historic Christianity" - followed by an unsupported list of phrases just doesn't mean anything. Based on what was said, it simply defies logic to claim "Bible alone" is not Biblical.

Its easy enough to make the same exact assertions against the RCC with a different list of equally murky phrases: Creation spirituality, pluralism, etc.

But these kinds of things don't promote dialogue. They bring out far more heat than light.

LDG

 

[Mislaid]

To be brief, with the communion thing, consider the links between the Jewish Passover (what they thought of the bread - the bread of affliction) and Jesus' statements of the bread, and draw parallels from that. The Jews did not think of the bread in a literal sense, rather, a symbolic sense and the same is true of Jesus. When you eat the bread there is no presense of God in it, merely symbolic, to remind you of what He gave up and went through.

Consider also the verse that someone else pointed out in Matthew 6:11, which alludes to the provision of manna from God for the Israelites in the desert. The verse talks about asking God to meet our physical needs, not communion bread...

As for one of the other Protestant errors and inventions, specifically, ask Jesus in your heart, consider Revelation 3:20. Consider what it meant in the culture to invite someone else into one's home and dine with him, namely, it was a sign of intimacy.

I think for people to have a good and proper knowledge of doctrines and principles, that they really need to understand the relevant cultural background and ties between the Old and New Testaments.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

As for one of the other Protestant errors and inventions, specifically, ask Jesus in your heart, consider Revelation 3:20. Consider what it meant in the culture to invite someone else into one's home and dine with him, namely, it was a sign of intimacy.

That is one of my favorite verses.

Reve 3:20 Behold! I stand upon the door and I am knocking. If ever anyone should be hearing of the voice of Me, and should be opening the door, I shall be entering toward him and I shall be dining with him and he with Me.

Luke 13:28 There shall be the lamentation and the gnashing of the teeth whenever ye should be seeing Abraham, and Isaac and Jacob and all the Prophets in the Kingdom of the God, ye yet being cast-out outside .

 

[sunlover1]

"Give us today our daily bread" (Mt 6:11; Lk 11:3)

It is used in the "Our Father" prayer as well. It is also the reason the church met daily as a group with an Apostle or one ordained by an Apostle or ordained by someone that was ordained by an Apostle, and so on...

OHHH, right. I remember someone telling me that years ago.
(on another message board, can ya believe it? )

Where did you learn that the church met daily for communion?
Sounds like a great practice though, is that what y ou do at
your church, take communion daily?

I mean if that's what it means (give us this day our 'daily' bread)
then ya oughta be doin it right?
Makes good sense to do what He says.

I am not convinced that it does, but am open to the possibility.


love,
sunlover

 

[Rhamiel]

Ask Jesus into Your Heart

nothing wrong with that, I hope and pray that God uses my heart as a dwelling place, that His Light will shine through me, that I might become more like Him and less like myself every day.
sunlover

Where did you learn that the church met daily for communion?
Sounds like a great practice though, is that what y ou do at
your church, take communion daily?

There is daily mass for people who want to go to it, it is a little shorter then Sunday services, with a much shorter sermon and less (or no) singing. Just about every Catholic church will have mass every day, it it does not then that probably means the pastor has multiple parishes that he looks after so he has to divide up his time between them

 

[Heber]

If one is supposed only to use a particular form of the elements to make mass / eucharist valid in G_d's eyes, what happens about those in some countries where the elements you prescribe are not available? Are they utterly rejected by G_d because no one provides for them, if so, why?

I find that to be a particularly harsh judgement on them and do not think it is a G_d imposed punishment - rather it is of man. To resolve this issue the Roman Catholic Church must undertake to provide all that is required to share in these sacraments in EVERY city, town, village and hamlet in any country in the whole world on a daily basis - clearly an impossibility. You may argue that people can go to a Catholic Church but that really doesn't help the old, sick, infirm, disabled, very young etc who in some areas may have to walk miles and miles in the heat to get there. It is simply a postcode/zipcode lottery as to whether folk can actually go to a Catholic Church to receive the elements, or to get a priest to attend them at home. Your answer to this is...?