Protestant errors and inventions (3)

[Rev Randy]

Please, don't cast the blame at me as if I forced you to make the inaccurate statements that you have made. Own your own messages.

Can I blame my blunderous posts on you? Pleeeease? My own wagon is full.

 

[Stryder06]

Please, don't cast the blame at me as if I forced you to make the inaccurate statements that you have made. Own your own messages.

If I'm wrong, please tell me where? I've simply asked questions and made statements based off of what I've read while in this thread. I'm not placing blame, simply specifying my source of information.

 

[Stryder06]

That same right as yours saying to abstain from certain meats and it's better to be vegetarian.

Not quite. We say that you are to abstain from certain meats because God said so. Now there are some zealots that will split a congregation on the whole Veggie vs Vegan vs Carnivore thing.
While we advocate a meatless diet, no one is unable to hold an office because they have taste for chicken.

In truth I'd say it's to be more like Christ. I admire those who devote themselves to celibacy. I'm just glad I wasn't called into such as I'd have been a miserable failure. But that's just old randy Randy. I'm better now that I'm older.

Hey I have no issue with any man who chooses to be celibate. If that's the route he wants to walk, praise God for him. However I don't think it's fair to make someone choose between marriage and the ministry.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If I'm wrong, please tell me where? I've simply asked questions and made statements based off of what I've read while in this thread. I'm not placing blame, simply specifying my source of information.

I don't think I want to spend too much time on this little garden path

Suffice it to say, celibate people can become priests and married people can, under certain conditions but a celibate person who decides to marry leaves the active priesthood.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It's their way.
The concept most people are mistaken on is that a Catholic priest cannot marry.
This isn't true. there are tens of thousands of Catholic priests who have married. They are no longer clergy but they remain priests.(Roman rite)
My Church also does not permit a priest, deacon or bishop to marry and remain clergy. But we do ordain men who are already married.
This is not forbidding to marry. It is a choice freely made.

Actually, if they were Christians, they were priests long before they were every clergy and will be so throughout eternity. Every believer in Jesus Christ is a priest.

The fact does remain, however, that clergy in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church are forbidden to marry unless they sneak in the back door like married Anglican priests who convert to Catholicism and are enrolled as Catholic clergymen.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The celibacy of priests is based on the celibacy of Christ. St. Paul was celibate and even wrote about it's virtues. It's astounding to me how a group of people who supposedly hold the bible in such high esteem fail to recognize this.

And what of your first Pope Peter? He was married. It seems to me that a denomination which holds Peter in such extreme regard ought to follow his example for their clergy, don't you?

 

[Stryder06]

I don't think I want to spend too much time on this little garden path

Suffice it to say, celibate people can become priests and married people can, under certain conditions but a celibate person who decides to marry leaves the active priesthood.

That's fine. So exactly what did I say that was inaccurate? From what I can tell I was asking questions and making comments that were in line with this explanation.

 

[bbbbbbb]

1 Cor 9:5 Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?

Is this not teaching that not only did some of the Apostles take a wife, but that Paul and Barnabas would be right in doing so at that point if they wished?

Oh no! Not the brothers of the Lord! Now we ought to consider the gross heresy that Joseph and Mary had marital relations which resulted in children which were brothers and sisters of our Lord and who themselves were married and had marital relations.

 

[Rev Randy]

Pastor, Bishop, Priest...all the same to me



Does he still lead the local congregation? I'm guessing that once a preist always a priest, kind of like once a pastor always a pastor. So it's all well and good to say "He's still a priest" because technically he is. That however seems to simply be a nicer way of saying "We won't need your services anymore".

In our Tradition no. But not all priests are pastors(in the sense you're meaning) in the first place. I kinda chuckled when you said "all the same to me". Not all priest pastor congregations. Some have a ministry of teaching, counseling etc.
i'm currently not leading worship in a congregation but not do to anything about marriage. Just health.
So if you are asking if it changes things dramatically, yes it does and any priest considering marriage would know that well. I would not look down upon any priest feeling the need to marry. I don't think the Church does either. I mean we are also men. It happens more often than you might imagine. I read recently that there are over 20,000 in Roman rite. Facts about Married Catholic Priests from Father Vince

 

[Rev Randy]

Actually, if they were Christians, they were priests long before they were every clergy and will be so throughout eternity. Every believer in Jesus Christ is a priest.

The fact does remain, however, that clergy in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church are forbidden to marry unless they sneak in the back door like married Anglican priests who convert to Catholicism and are enrolled as Catholic clergymen.

A priest or a part of a royal priesthood?

The real fact is that for many centuries Roman Catholics had married priests and even some Popes. At some point they found it better that they should remain celibate and unmarried. I don't know if that was a good decision or a poor one. That's for the Roman Catholic to decide. Seems they've opened a door recently(Anglican rite) and things could change as it's not Dogma.
I know it's a hot topic at Catholic sites. By hot I mean both heated and of great interest to Catholics.

 

[bbbbbbb]

So you believe in the office of a priest?
One can function in that office without being clergy. Just in a different way. It's not like they are given the boot. Just given a different type of ministry.
The best part of being an unmarried pastor is he doesn't ever get embarrassed when his wife runs of with the piano player

The worst part of being an unmarried priest is being hauled before a jury on charges of molestation of former altar boys and being found guilty.

 

[Rev Randy]

The worst part of being an unmarried priest is being hauled before a jury on charges of molestation of former altar boys and being found guilty.

And you think marriage would cure a deviate mind? I think such a man would have done it married or single.

 

[bbbbbbb]

And you think marriage would cure a deviate mind? I think such a man would have done it married or single.

Likewise an unfaithful wife. Neither situation is at all godly, but I cannot think of any examples of your case although we all know examples of my case. The problem lies in a system which permits such abuses to occur.

 

[bbbbbbb]

A priest or a part of a royal priesthood?

The real fact is that for many centuries Roman Catholics had married priests and even some Popes. At some point they found it better that they should remain celibate and unmarried. I don't know if that was a good decision or a poor one. That's for the Roman Catholic to decide. Seems they've opened a door recently(Anglican rite) and things could change as it's not Dogma.
I know it's a hot topic at Catholic sites. By hot I mean both heated and of great interest to Catholics.

Both. We are members of the royal priesthood (as well as the holy priesthood) and, as such, are priests.

Yes, I know that there is a lot of discussion going on at the fringes of the Catholic Church both for the ordination of women as priestly clergy and for permitting celibate clergymen to marry. From what I see the discussion has not yet materialized within the primary centers of Catholic authority. I could easily be wrong on this. Time, as they say, will tell.

 

[Albion]

Yes, I know that there is a lot of discussion going on at the fringes of the Catholic Church both for the ordination of women as priestly clergy and for permitting celibate clergymen to marry. From what I see the discussion has not yet materialized within the primary centers of Catholic authority. I could easily be wrong on this. Time, as they say, will tell.

Except for a handful of feminist activists that the church pays no mind to, there is no discussion about ordaining women. The idea of rescinding the prohibition against married male priests in the Latin rite is almost certain to come down in the future. But there is a serious doctrinal problem with the first, whereas there is none with the second.

 

[1Co13]

a celibate person who decides to marry leaves the active priesthood.

Thats false doctrine. Paul didn't forbid marriage to any Christian or Church leader.

 

[Standing Up]

Thats false doctrine. Paul didn't forbid marriage to any Christian or Church leader.

Right. The idea of a Christian clergy/laity dichotomy is simply the Sinai model brought forward and combined with later ever-virgin ideas of both Mary and Joseph.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Thats false doctrine. Paul didn't forbid marriage to any Christian or Church leader.

No, but he was himself celibate.

 

[Albion]

Right. The idea of a Christian clergy/laity dichotomy is simply the Sinai model brought forward and combined with later ever-virgin ideas of both Mary and Joseph.

Well, that's imaginative. Completely wrong, but imaginative.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Likewise an unfaithful wife. Neither situation is at all godly, but I cannot think of any examples of your case although we all know examples of my case. The problem lies in a system which permits such abuses to occur.

I suppose you're referring to the Public School System in the US? As far as I know, that's the only system that permits such a thing...

Actually, no system permits it, but many struggle with what to do with those who do such things. The Catholic Church is no exception, but we do have policies in place, and have for quite a while, to do something about it when it arises. What do school systems do? They remove, rehab, and re-place those teachers. No jail time, it's all very quiet...