Protestant errors and inventions (3)

[Standing Up]

1. Personal & Private interpretation of scripture
2. Faith alone - In Latin "sola fide" is the theory (unsupported by scripture fact) that salvation is obtained by faith alone.
3. The One True Church is made up of all true believers scattered throughout all denominations.
4. The One True Church is not a visible institution.

Re #1. This is the same as RC bishop/pope opinion. So, if it works for them ...

#2 Saved by grace through faith. True.

#3 True
#4 True

 

[Standing Up]

No, we're present at the SAME sacrifice. There was only one.

Yes, only one. Never to be repeated at some OT-type Levite priest standing at your altar.

 

[Standing Up]

1. Denominationalism
2. A bible with only 66 books.
3. Saint Paul's letters are not inspired.

1 The Roman Church invented denominationalism. Polycarp went to Rome to correct her when Marcion flourished. Anicetus rejected Polycarp's/apostolic teaching. (Eusebius, Irenaeus, Firmilian)

2 True
3 This is an outlier some people believe. OTOH, some people believe the Pope's opinions are inspired. So, let's call it a wash.

 

[MoreCoffee]

A sacrifice is a ritual offering made to God by a priest on behalf of the people, as a sign of adoration, gratitude, supplication, and communion. The perfect sacrifice was Christ’s death on the cross; by this sacrifice, Christ accomplished our redemption as high priest of the new and eternal covenant. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross is commemorated and mysteriously made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice of the Church.

All who believe in the real presence and believe the mass (divine liturgy) to be a re-presentation of the sacrifice of our Lord, Jesus Christ, on the cross carry out the command of the Lord by celebrating the memorial of his sacrifice. In so doing, they offer to the Father what he has himself given to them: the gifts of his creation, bread and wine which, by the power of the Holy Spirit and by the words of Christ, have become the body and blood of Christ. Christ is thus really and mysteriously made present.

Those who hold to this faith believe that everything that the priesthood of the Old Covenant prefigured finds its fulfillment in Christ Jesus, the “one mediator between God and men.” Christian tradition considers Melchizedek, “priest of God Most High,” as a prefiguration of the priesthood of Christ, the unique “high priest after the order of Melchizedek”; “holy, blameless, unstained,” “by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified,” that is, by the unique sacrifice of the cross.

The redemptive sacrifice of Christ is unique, accomplished once for all; yet it is made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice of the Church. The same is true of the one priesthood of Christ; it is made present through the ministerial priesthood without diminishing the uniqueness of Christ’s priesthood: “Only Christ is the true priest, the others being only his ministers.”

 

[bbbbbbb]

A sacrifice is a ritual offering made to God by a priest on behalf of the people, as a sign of adoration, gratitude, supplication, and communion. The perfect sacrifice was Christ’s death on the cross; by this sacrifice, Christ accomplished our redemption as high priest of the new and eternal covenant. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross is commemorated and mysteriously made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice of the Church.

All who believe in the real presence and believe the mass (divine liturgy) to be a re-presentation of the sacrifice of our Lord, Jesus Christ, on the cross carry out the command of the Lord by celebrating the memorial of his sacrifice. In so doing, they offer to the Father what he has himself given to them: the gifts of his creation, bread and wine which, by the power of the Holy Spirit and by the words of Christ, have become the body and blood of Christ. Christ is thus really and mysteriously made present.

Those who hold to this faith believe that everything that the priesthood of the Old Covenant prefigured finds its fulfillment in Christ Jesus, the “one mediator between God and men.” Christian tradition considers Melchizedek, “priest of God Most High,” as a prefiguration of the priesthood of Christ, the unique “high priest after the order of Melchizedek”; “holy, blameless, unstained,” “by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified,” that is, by the unique sacrifice of the cross.

The redemptive sacrifice of Christ is unique, accomplished once for all; yet it is made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice of the Church. The same is true of the one priesthood of Christ; it is made present through the ministerial priesthood without diminishing the uniqueness of Christ’s priesthood: “Only Christ is the true priest, the others being only his ministers.”

If, indeed, Christ is the true priest, then why call these other mortals "priests" and not ministers or servants or deacons, which is what they are called in the New Testament? It assuredly confuses matters considerably when one assumes a title not given to one. I can refer to myself as doctor (as many do) without having a medical degree, but the common man would be deceived if I did so and associated my profession with that of medicine.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If, indeed, Christ is the true priest, then why call these other mortals "priests" and not ministers or servants or deacons, which is what they are called in the New Testament? It assuredly confuses matters considerably when one assumes a title not given to one. I can refer to myself as doctor (as many do) without having a medical degree, but the common man would be deceived if I did so and associated my profession with that of medicine.

Sacred scripture calls the faithful a holy nation and a nation of priests to our God. So, on the basis of scripture we ought to speak of ourselves as priests.

Those who minister in the Church are also called priests, and rightly so, because they labour in the word and sacraments for the benefit of the faithful. They thus are ministers to the faithful and are also priests along with the faithful. Furthermore, when they minister at the Lord's tables - the table of his word in sacred scripture and the table of his body and blood in the Eucharistic sacrament - they do so as his representatives, as his ambassadors. Using saint Paul's words, they are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through them. They appeal to the faithful on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

 

[tadoflamb]

1. Personal & Private interpretation of scripture
2. Faith alone - In Latin "sola fide" is the theory (unsupported by scripture fact) that salvation is obtained by faith alone.
3. The One True Church is made up of all true believers scattered throughout all denominations.
4. The One True Church is not a visible institution.

Re #1. This is the same as RC bishop/pope opinion. So, if it works for them ...

#2 Saved by grace through faith. True.

#3 True
#4 True

Yes, only one. Never to be repeated at some OT-type Levite priest standing at your altar.

1. Denominationalism
2. A bible with only 66 books.
3. Saint Paul's letters are not inspired.

1 The Roman Church invented denominationalism. Polycarp went to Rome to correct her when Marcion flourished. Anicetus rejected Polycarp's/apostolic teaching. (Eusebius, Irenaeus, Firmilian)

2 True
3 This is an outlier some people believe. OTOH, some people believe the Pope's opinions are inspired. So, let's call it a wash.

I'm starting to think there should be a separate list for protestant errors and inventions about Catholicism.

The pope interprets scripture for the faithful
The Catholic Church re-sacrifices Jesus
The Catholic Church invented denominationalism
The pope's opinions are inspired

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'm starting to think there should be a separate list for protestant errors and inventions about Catholicism.

The pope interprets scripture for the faithful
The Catholic Church re-sacrifices Jesus
The Catholic Church invented denominationalism
The pope's opinions are inspired

No!!!

The list would be millions of lines long and growing all the time!

Those who are inclined to make the kind of claims you've noted never stop. They add new and more absurd claims daily. It is an obsession for some. So, let's not open a thread for that purpose, it would only attract them and encourage them to make more bizarre claims.

 

[tadoflamb]

No!!!

The list would be millions of lines long and growing all the time!

Those who are inclined to make the kind of claims you've noted never stop. They add new and more absurd claims daily. It is an obsession for some. So, let's not open a thread for that purpose, it would only attract them and encourage them to make more bizarre claims.

I hear you. If I believed what they say about the Church, I wouldn't want to be Catholic either.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by tadoflamb

I'm starting to think there should be a separate list for protestant errors and inventions about Catholicism.

The pope interprets scripture for the faithful
The Catholic Church re-sacrifices Jesus
The Catholic Church invented denominationalism
The pope's opinions are inspired
​

No!!!

The list would be millions of lines long and growing all the time!

Those who are inclined to make the kind of claims you've noted never stop. They add new and more absurd claims daily. It is an obsession for some. So, let's not open a thread for that purpose, it would only attract them and encourage them to make more bizarre claims.

I hear you. If I believed what they say about the Church, I wouldn't want to be Catholic either.

It still hasn't been enough to make me join the RCC...but who knows what can happen if the list gets to be a 1000 pages long



.

 

[Albion]

If, indeed, Christ is the true priest, then why call these other mortals "priests" and not ministers or servants or deacons, which is what they are called in the New Testament? It assuredly confuses matters considerably when one assumes a title not given to one.

It's just custom. But you have a good point there.

It wouldn't hurt anyone, and would probably be a step in the right direction, if the word "presbyter" were used instead, as it is in a few churches that have "priests."

 

[Root of Jesse]

So, in agreement then re MC's list:

#2 is gone

#3 is gone

#4, by extension from #3, is gone.

More later.

Well, #2 is not gone, because we do make a sacrifice. It's the one made at Calvary.

Regarding #3, are you saying that you don't believe the Bible alone holds everything we're to believe as Christians?

 

[Stryder06]

Well, #2 is not gone, because we do make a sacrifice. It's the one made at Calvary.

This doesn't make a lick of sense. How are you making the sacrifice at Calvary when it's already been made?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Well, #2 is not gone, because we do make a sacrifice. It's the one made at Calvary.

Regarding #3, are you saying that you don't believe the Bible alone holds everything we're to believe as Christians?

I thought it best to let those babbling posts pass us by. They were nonsense anyway

 

[Albion]

This doesn't make a lick of sense. How are you making the sacrifice at Calvary when it's already been made?

Oh, you know.

God is timeless. Miracles don't have to obey any rules. It takes real faith to believe this, so it must be true. It isn't a new sacrifice, it just gets you the benefits of a sacrifice (how's that possible?). It's a re-presentation to the Father of the sacrifice of Calvary (He's forgetful, apparently). You know.

It is kind of odd, though, that here we have an alleged resacrificing of Christ but even that isn't good enough to keep anyone out of Purgatory which exists only because the original sacrifice of the Cross isn't sufficient to pay the price for our sins.

 

[Root of Jesse]

This doesn't make a lick of sense. How are you making the sacrifice at Calvary when it's already been made?

To God, there is no space and time. The Sacrifice exists now, it exists in the future, it exists in the past. Christ's sacrifice works in the past, the present, the future. We celebrate the sacrifice of Christ. Our worship of Him is a re-presentation of His one sacrifice. It is not a past event.

 

[Stryder06]

To God, there is no space and time.

Says who?

The Sacrifice exists now, it exists in the future, it exists in the past.

Talk like this reminds me of episodes of The Justice League.

Christ's sacrifice works in the past, the present, the future. We celebrate the sacrifice of Christ. Our worship of Him is a re-presentation of His one sacrifice. It is not a past event.

It worked in the past because the past at some time was the present. And it will work in the future because the present will eventually become the past, and the future will become the present.

This doesn't explain how you're presently participating in an action that has long since been completed.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Says who?

God is eternal, no?

Talk like this reminds me of episodes of The Justice League.

Well! Back to the comic books for you, then. I never read them.

It worked in the past because the past at some time was the present. And it will work in the future because the present will eventually become the past, and the future will become the present.

This doesn't explain how you're presently participating in an action that has long since been completed.

Today is yesterday's tomorrow. Tomorrow will never come because when it gets here, it's today. Therefore, there's no past, no present, no future. I see.

I guess my explanation is too tough for you...ask Him how.

 

[Stryder06]

God is eternal, no?

He is. Ever think that we're living inside of His time, instead of Him living outside of ours?

Well! Back to the comic books for you, then. I never read them.

Make more sense than this.

Today is yesterday's tomorrow. Tomorrow will never come because when it gets here, it's today. Therefore, there's no past, no present, no future. I see.

Don't think that's what I said. In short, all we have is today. Yesterday is gone and the things with it and tomorrow hadsn't happened yet. Christ isn't still being sacrificed in some strange time loop continuum

I guess my explanation is too tough for you...ask Him how.

No, it just doesn't make sense. You haven't actually offered a "how" you're just saying what it is. I want to know how you're participating in a sacrifice that isn't occuring. If you're going to say "It's a mystery" than just say that.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Sacred scripture calls the faithful a holy nation and a nation of priests to our God. So, on the basis of scripture we ought to speak of ourselves as priests.

Those who minister in the Church are also called priests, and rightly so, because they labour in the word and sacraments for the benefit of the faithful. They thus are ministers to the faithful and are also priests along with the faithful. Furthermore, when they minister at the Lord's tables - the table of his word in sacred scripture and the table of his body and blood in the Eucharistic sacrament - they do so as his representatives, as his ambassadors. Using saint Paul's words, they are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through them. They appeal to the faithful on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

I assuredly am willing to think of every saint as a priest, but object to the notion that some priests are worthy of the title, but the rest are not. Your church takes it several steps further in according special titles such as bishop, archbishop, cardinal, and pope to those accorded greater honor than "priests", which they have accorded to themselves.