Protecting your family

[SkyWriting]

This was a thread started in a section where only Christians could contribute. But it has ramifications for Christians and Non-Christians alike - So, First acknowledging the original author @Adino The Eznite with the thread titled "SELFE DEFENSE IS GOD ORDAINED" (his spelling not mine)
This is the verbatum detail of his post
God’s all for self defense, in fact if a man fails in defending his own life and the lives of his family God says he's nothing more than a poisoned spring! "A troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring." (Proverbs 25:26).

Proverbs 25:26
26 A righteous man who falters before the wicked is like a murky spring and a polluted well.

1 Timothy 5:8
8 But if anyone does not provide (protection) for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

It seems to me, the so called religious politicians of this world, people like former Prime minister of Australia, John Howard for an example seem to know more than God has revealed to mankind in general in His book the Bible, and so John Howard and his aids decided God doesn't know what He is talking about regarding self defense and decided to overrule the God he believes in, and he Ruled Over us, the people who elected him to rule the country only, and banned all weapons of self defense and made self defense illegal.

Scripture refers to Spiritual protection. So you can have an arsenal but it is useless if you family goes to Hell anyway. Picture a family depending on guns in a foxhole but none of them are depending of Jesus.

 

[pleinmont]

I am so glad I live in the UK where firearms for self-protection are illegal.

 

[Zoii]

Mine must all be faulty because not one of them

Can I ask how many you own - and why you have more than one?

 

[Occams Barber]

I am so glad I live in the UK where firearms for self-protection are illegal.

It's the same in Australia.

Self protection is not a valid legal reason for gun ownership.
OB

 

[Zoii]

It's the same in Australia.

Self protection is not a valid legal reason for gun ownership.
OB

I think the ABC/Al Jazeera sting of One Nation was a clear indication of why its so critical to maintain strict gun laws in our country.

 

[Lazarus Long]

Picture a family depending on guns in a foxhole but none of them are depending of Jesus.

The result would be the same, dead is dead.

 

[FireDragon76]

Oh dear Lord. You talk about guns not killing in one thread and now talking about waving your shotgun around, purporting to defend against a gang of attackers who sniped their way onto your friends property - I'm sure all readers here are silently looking at each other going...Ah huh. Thats pretty major stuff (Well in Australia it is at least) - Im sure it would have hit the media because if I know anything about gun lobbies - they maximize media of such instances. Would you mind attaching the link please.

Why be cynical? It's entirely possible he is telling the truth. Not every one of those incidents makes it on the news.

Don't over-politicize gun ownership and reduce this to tribalism. One of my favorite American intellectuals, Sam Harris, supports the right for private citizens to own guns. He's not an ideologue, and that's one of the reasons I appreciate him.

Having said that, I don't own guns myself and don't plan to own any. But I won't deny that there are situations they could be useful for other people.

 

[FireDragon76]

It's the same in Australia.

Self protection is not a valid legal reason for gun ownership.
OB

That's fine until when seconds count, the police are minutes away.

 

[Occams Barber]

Why be cynical? It's entirely possible he is telling the truth. Not every one of those incidents makes it on the news.

@Zoii is right. An event like the one described by the OP is so unusual that it would get major coverage. Remember we have a much smaller population compared to the US (25 million vs 329 million)and this type of crime is unusual.

Don't over-politicize gun ownership and reduce this to tribalism. One of my favorite American intellectuals, Sam Harris, supports the right for private citizens to own guns. He's not an ideologue, and that's one of the reasons I appreciate him.

I also appreciate Sam Harris but there are significant cultural differences between Australia and the US. While Americans emphasise individual rights we tend to put more value on collective responsibilities. There is no Australian Bill of Rights and yet we somehow manage to maintain our individual freedom. All major political parties agree on restricting access to guns. Any disagreement is coming from a minor right wing fringe element.

Having said that, I don't own guns myself and don't plan to own any. But I won't deny that there are situations they could be useful for other people.

That's fine until when seconds count, the police are minutes away.

We've looked at the relative risk of allowing general access to guns versus the risks of not allowing access. In our case restricting access is seen as the lesser collective risk.

OB

 

[Strathos]

I don't know how it works in Australia, but I see no problem with American citizens owning guns, as long as there are proper measures to make sure they are responsible with them (background checks, training, licenses, reasonable limitations on what kind of weapons can be privately owned, etc.)

 

[Occams Barber]

I don't know how it works in Australia, but I see no problem with American citizens owning guns, as long as there are proper measures to make sure they are responsible with them (background checks, training, licenses, reasonable limitations on what kind of weapons can be privately owned, etc.)

As I said in my post above (#29) when it comes to guns there is a significant cultural difference between our two countries. 87% of Australians support gun control. 25% would like to see even stricter controls. A tiny (7%) minority would like to see gun laws made less strict. We've never had (and never wanted) the "right to bear arms".

This individual rights vs collective responsibilities cultural difference also shows up in our differing attitudes to things like universal healthcare systems, compulsory voting, national minimum wages, mandatory worker holidays (with a 17% pay loading ), compulsory sick leave, paid maternity leave, unfair dismissal law etc. etc.

Although the US and Australia have much culture-in-common we are starkly different when it comes to collective social values. We are far more "socialist".

OB

 

[FireDragon76]

This individual rights vs collective responsibilities cultural difference also shows up in our differing attitudes to things like universal healthcare systems, compulsory voting, national minimum wages, mandatory worker holidays (with a 17% pay loading ), compulsory sick leave, paid maternity leave, unfair dismissal law etc. etc.

That sounds like a good explanation, that Australians are simply more "socially responsible", until you consider Canada has a culture of gun ownership also, yet it's political identity is distinct from the US and is far more left-leaning than the US.

 

[Occams Barber]

That sounds like a good explanation, that Australians are simply more "socially responsible", until you consider Canada has a culture of gun ownership also, yet it's political identity is distinct from the US and is far more left-leaning than the US.

I'm not familiar with Canada's gun laws and gun culture. My point was that there is a difference between our (US and Australian) cultures which largely relates to different views of the relative importance of individual rights vs collective responsibilities. I gave you some examples to back this opinion.

In the absence of an objective measurement there is no better or worse here and I was careful not to use loaded language like "more socially responsible". Since I'm a product of my own culture I'm obviously more likely to prefer our approach but, in the end, it comes down to what we each value.

OB

 

[Zoii]

It looks as though the questions posed here to @Adino The Eznite are rather uncomfortable and he's optioned out of trying to show evidence for his claims

 

[Lazarus Long]

I don't know how it works in Australia, but I see no problem with American citizens owning guns, as long as there are proper measures to make sure they are responsible with them (background checks, training, licenses, reasonable limitations on what kind of weapons can be privately owned, etc.)

But it seems that those measures are neglected.

 

[FredVB]

I think that for those who are not Christian believers who really trust God, you do what you got to do. But for those who are Christian believers who really trust God, why not pray about what God really wants for you to be shown to you, trusting God can do anything, rather than just go arm oneself with lethal power.

 

[Strathos]

But it seems that those measures are neglected.

Unfortunately yes, in a lot of cases.

 

[Kylie]

I think that for those who are not Christian believers who really trust God, you do what you got to do. But for those who are Christian believers who really trust God, why not pray about what God really wants for you to be shown to you, trusting God can do anything, rather than just go arm oneself with lethal power.

If you were being attacked and had some means to defend yourself, would you use it, or would you just sit back and pray?

 

[Zoii]

Why be cynical? It's entirely possible he is telling the truth. Not every one of those incidents makes it on the news.

I'm sure it would be in the USA. But this is Australia, and here it would certainly be reported as such an event would be very rare.

AND here its not over politicised as you say. It has bipartisan support to control guns strictly.

 

[Zoii]

I think it says volumes that this thread is in response to a thread started in the Christian section by @Adino The Eznite and he has not responded to the outing of his false statements.