Proselytizing in the US of A

[cantata]

That's if you follow what's become the typical definition. By your definition, atheism is a religion too but I've yet to find an atheist who will out and admit it.

Since atheists by definition don't believe in gods (and need not believe in anything at all, in fact), I don't see how atheism can be a religion. Atheism has no creed, no rules, no belief system. It's just absence of god-belief. You may as well say not believing in unicorns is a religion.

You can make a case that Maoism is a religion, or even that secular humanism is a religion, but you can't call atheism a religion because it doesn't require that atheists have any particular beliefs. Don't forget, you can be an atheist and believe in fairies, or the healing power of crystals, or astrology, or the imminent return of the mother ship. Or you can believe in none of those things. You can also be a Jew or a Buddhist and be an atheist, and I've never heard of anyone managing to follow two religions at once. Trust me - it's not a religion, although there are atheistic religions.

So I tell them they can have their non-religion if I can call Christianity a relationship. From the outside it's a religion. From the inside it's not. If it were, it would be horribly boring and I'd be a Buddhist already.

You raise the classic problem of the definition and experience-near status of the word 'religion'. Would you regard Islam/Buddhism/Hinduism as a religion?

 

[HannahBanana]

That's if you follow what's become the typical definition.

What definition do you suggest we follow, then, if not the "typical definition," which is backed up by years and years of research of the English language?

By your definition, atheism is a religion too

Are you seriously suggesting that atheism is "the service and worship of God or the supernatural"? Do you even know what atheism is?

So I tell them they can have their non-religion if I can call Christianity a relationship. From the outside it's a religion. From the inside it's not. If it were, it would be horribly boring and I'd be a Buddhist already.

Or maybe you just like to have a set of rules to follow in your life. There's nothing wrong with that (honestly, there isn't).

We don't have to go to church. We don't have to pray (and technically if we do we're supposed to do it non-stop. Praying is about connection with God). We also don't have to celebrate "Christian" holidays.

So why are those things such an integral part of Christianity, then, if you don't have to do them? And why does God make you feel guilty when you don't do them if they aren't required of you?

 

[FaithLikeARock]

What definition do you suggest we follow, then, if not the "typical definition," which is backed up by years and years of research of the English language?


Are you seriously suggesting that atheism is "the service and worship of God or the supernatural"? Do you even know what atheism is?


Or maybe you just like to have a set of rules to follow in your life. There's nothing wrong with that (honestly, there isn't).


So why are those things such an integral part of Christianity, then, if you don't have to do them? And why does God make you feel guilty when you don't do them if they aren't required of you?

Strange according to Dictionary.com, this is the definition of a religion: a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects. Sounds like atheism to me.

No one likes following rules.

For the same reason following God's will is. When you're Christian, really Christian, you want to do those things. I don't go to church sometimes, and guess what, I don't feel guilty about it. Because God doesn't care. I go to church for the fellowship and to be in a place where I can relate to the people and to what they believe. I don't have to go to church to worship God. I can do that in the comfort of my own home. If someone feels guilty about not going to church, it's because some backwards fool has told them if they don't go to church they're going to hell. You don't really feel guilt from God. You feel guilt from thinking something is wrong. If that were the case thousands of Christians would be feeling terrible about divorcing and affairs but generally it feels "okay" and then that is used as an excuse to call it "okayed by God". Doesn't fly.

 

[HannahBanana]

Strange according to Dictionary.com, this is the definition of a religion: a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects. Sounds like atheism to me.

Are you seriously inferring that Dictionary.com is more trustworthy than Merriam-Webster's Dictionary?

No one likes following rules.

I actually like following rules. Does that make me "nobody"?

For the same reason following God's will is. When you're Christian, really Christian, you want to do those things. I don't go to church sometimes, and guess what, I don't feel guilty about it. Because God doesn't care. I go to church for the fellowship and to be in a place where I can relate to the people and to what they believe. I don't have to go to church to worship God. I can do that in the comfort of my own home. If someone feels guilty about not going to church, it's because some backwards fool has told them if they don't go to church they're going to hell. You don't really feel guilt from God. You feel guilt from thinking something is wrong. If that were the case thousands of Christians would be feeling terrible about divorcing and affairs but generally it feels "okay" and then that is used as an excuse to call it "okayed by God". Doesn't fly.

Interesting. I've definitely heard otherwise from other Christians. I guess things like this are why there are so many denominations within Christianity: Christians as a group cannot seem to agree on how to practice Christianity.

Also, if you believe that the rituals of Christianity are completely optional, then do you realize that that means that you're picking-and-choosing what parts of the Bible to take literally? If so, then are you okay with that?

 

[FaithLikeARock]

Are you seriously inferring that Dictionary.com is more trustworthy than Merriam-Webster's Dictionary?


I actually like following rules. Does that make me "nobody"?


Interesting. I've definitely heard otherwise from other Christians. I guess things like this are why there are so many denominations within Christianity: Christians as a group cannot seem to agree on how to practice Christianity.

Also, if you believe that the rituals of Christianity are completely optional, then do you realize that that means that you're picking-and-choosing what parts of the Bible to take literally? If so, then are you okay with that?

Well seeing as it takes definitions from Merriam-Webster, yes.

Do you? Even rules you don't agree with?

The idea of Christian rituals is something man-made. It's never required in the Bible. It's suggested, but you also have to recognize that certain places don't have a church to go to so to require it would be unreal. Likewise in countries where religions like Christianity are illegal, to pray in a typical hands-folded, eyes-closed fashion would be quite a risk. The Bible never describes how you should pray except that it should be from the soul and not a ritualistic thing (which it has become) and it only requires fellowship with Christians but never an "every Sunday in a big building" church thing. I can easily fellowship with my brothers and sisters anywhere, any day, at any time.

 

[HannahBanana]

Well seeing as it takes definitions from Merriam-Webster, yes.

You weren't using the Merriam-Webster's definition, though, so my point still stands.

Do you? Even rules you don't agree with?

Yes, but then again, it's mostly because of my Asperger's Syndrome.

The idea of Christian rituals is something man-made. It's never required in the Bible. It's suggested, but you also have to recognize that certain places don't have a church to go to so to require it would be unreal. Likewise in countries where religions like Christianity are illegal, to pray in a typical hands-folded, eyes-closed fashion would be quite a risk. The Bible never describes how you should pray except that it should be from the soul and not a ritualistic thing (which it has become) and it only requires fellowship with Christians but never an "every Sunday in a big building" church thing. I can easily fellowship with my brothers and sisters anywhere, any day, at any time.

But prayer is, in and of itself, a ritual, since it's a behavior that is consistently repeated over and over again ad infinitum. So are you saying that it's perfectly all right if Christians just never pray? Also, what about baptism? That's a ritual, so are you okay with Christians never being baptized, even though in Matthew 28:19, it tells you to "go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"? Or what about marriage? In 1 Corinthians 7:8-9, it states that "It is good for them [the unmarried and widows] to stay unmarried, as I am [if they can control themselves]. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." So, seeing as staying completely celibate is something that very few people can actually do, do you honestly think that it's okay for a Christian to never get married?

 

[FaithLikeARock]

You weren't using the Merriam-Webster's definition, though, so my point still stands.

Yes, but then again, it's mostly because of my Asperger's Syndrome.

But prayer is, in and of itself, a ritual, since it's a behavior that is consistently repeated over and over again ad infinitum. So are you saying that it's perfectly all right if Christians just never pray? Also, what about baptism? That's a ritual, so are you okay with Christians never being baptized, even though in Matthew 28:19, it tells you to "go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"? Or what about marriage? In 1 Corinthians 7:8-9, it states that "It is good for them [the unmarried and widows] to stay unmarried, as I am [if they can control themselves]. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." So, seeing as staying completely celibate is something that very few people can actually do, do you honestly think that it's okay for a Christian to never get married?

So? It only uses professional definitions from actual dictionaries so I'm fairly sure that's just as fair. Saying that Dictionary.com isn't a valid source is...laughable.

Interesting.

So...brushing my teeth is a ritual?

It isn't called a sin so I don't God will punish someone for not praying. Christians also don't need to get baptized. Baptism is meant as a spiritual practice of cleansing. It doesn't have to be done literally, any more than communion. Also, marriage isn't a Christian concept. And of course it's okay. I'm planning to never get married.

 

[HannahBanana]

So? It only uses professional definitions from actual dictionaries so I'm fairly sure that's just as fair. Saying that Dictionary.com isn't a valid source is...laughable.

Interesting.

So...brushing my teeth is a ritual?

It isn't called a sin so I don't God will punish someone for not praying. Christians also don't need to get baptized. Baptism is meant as a spiritual practice of cleansing. It doesn't have to be done literally, any more than communion. Also, marriage isn't a Christian concept. And of course it's okay. I'm planning to never get married.

Okay, so what makes those "actual dictionaries" any more trustworthy than Merriam-Webster's Dictionary (which is, after all, the oldest dictionary still in publication)?

Yes, brushing your teeth is a ritual.

How can one have a relationship with God, though, if one doesn't pray at all? Also, why is it okay to ignore the passages of the Bible that tell you to baptize others and to get married?

 

[LightHorseman]

(which is, after all, the oldest dictionary still in publication)?

Oxford English?

 

[HannahBanana]

Oxford English?

Oops. Guess it isn't the oldest dictionary in existence, then. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Verv]

Before Christians proselytize again we should purge our ranks.

As in:

We should kick out Christians from the churches that are overly wealthy or discriminatory; we should give ultimatums to Christians in the ranks to live more charitable lives or leave.

We should also kick out people who are unrepentant for other sins but in strange ways justify things like divorce when it is not for reasons concerning adultery or domestic abuse.

We should kick out people who have warped Christianity -- who now believe homosexuality is not a sin, that pre-marital sex is not a sin, etc.

We should kick out the people who hate.

Anybody who hates anyone is not a member of the Christian religion -- anyone who hates gays, hates even terrorists or Nazis or other people who have done terrible things does not truly understand what Christianity says with loving one's neighbor as themselves.

Once we have purified the Christian body we can expand again and we will seem to be a credible and true religion again.

Who is interested? We should probably just create our own sect. I'd like to find a Minister who believes this and follow them.

Thanks.

 

[LightHorseman]

We should kick out Christians from the churches that are overly wealthy or discriminatory

Like... the churches that discriminate against homosexuals?

 

[stan1980]

Before Christians proselytize again we should purge our ranks.

As in:

We should kick out Christians from the churches that are overly wealthy or discriminatory; we should give ultimatums to Christians in the ranks to live more charitable lives or leave.

We should also kick out people who are unrepentant for other sins but in strange ways justify things like divorce when it is not for reasons concerning adultery or domestic abuse.

We should kick out people who have warped Christianity -- who now believe homosexuality is not a sin, that pre-marital sex is not a sin, etc.

We should kick out the people who hate.

Anybody who hates anyone is not a member of the Christian religion -- anyone who hates gays, hates even terrorists or Nazis or other people who have done terrible things does not truly understand what Christianity says with loving one's neighbor as themselves.

Once we have purified the Christian body we can expand again and we will seem to be a credible and true religion again.

Who is interested? We should probably just create our own sect. I'd like to find a Minister who believes this and follow them.

Thanks.

Sure, I'll be your minister. I notice though, there is not going to be too many Christians left after you kick them all out, so as an extra sweetener to get new blood, I'll only ask for 8% of your earnings instead of the standard 10%. Can't say fairer then that!

 

[Verv]

Like... the churches that discriminate against homosexuals?

Exactly.

Homosexuals should always be allowed to come and worship and repent for their sins like the rest of us.

However, if you ask a Church to marry some homosexuals that is like asking a Church to give the nod of approval to a person to have sex outside of marriage.

Sure, I'll be your minister. I notice though, there is not going to be too many Christians left after you kick them all out, so as an extra sweetener to get new blood, I'll only ask for 8% of your earnings instead of the standard 10%. Can't say fairer then that!

Oh yeah, that's cool because I am quite aware that any minister I would choose would be impermeable to the desire of luxury and rather would live with a few smple comforts. I know the money I gave you would be spent well and in the end I do not even care as it is just money and it is not on my head if i tis abused.

Cool comments, dudes.