Prophets?

[Anthony]

Why can't Jesus appear to Christians today? He has appeared to other men of God too. eg Smith Wigglesworth. I do not recall any scripture that says that it is forbidden for Jesus to appear to Christians, whether in vision or in dreams or in real form....



What's wrong with that? If I'm Korean and am used to reading a Korean Bible and Jesus appears to me and speaks in Korean, is that wrong? Do you expect him to speak Aramaic and then translate for you?

And which verse tells us that it is his wrists?

Question isn't whether Jesus can appear to people, the question is how do you determine which people [1] are telling the truth, and [2] how did they know it was actually Jesus, and not an angel of light?

When people screw up in their stories, or add inventive comments which veer off from scripture, I go running for the Bible to test their statements.

And when Kenneth says he saw the holes in Jesus hands, that throws up a big red flag. Also after the resurrection after Jesus left, he would have a resurrected body. Our resurrected bodies are made new. If Kenneth saw holes in Jesus, in his hands, wrists or anywhere that means our resurrected bodies still hold the scars of this life?

Cruxifixtion was done through the wrists . . .

An analysis of the Shroud of Turin, which many believe to be the actual burial shroud of Jesus Christ, shows a blood print in the location of the bones of the wrist



http://www.shroud.com/meacham2.htm

The Shroud of Turin as seen by the naked eye (above, top image) and in photographic negative (above, bottom image). Amidst burn marks, patches, water stains, and creases, the frontal and dorsal images of a male body may be discerned, with apparent blood flows at the wrists, right side (in the positive), head, and feet. Photograph by G. Enrie, 1933; © 1935, 1963 by the Holy Shroud Guild.​

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Question isn't whether Jesus can appear to people, the question is how do you determine which people [1] are telling the truth, and [2] how did they know it was actually Jesus, and not an angel of light?

When people screw up in their stories, or add inventive comments which veer off from scripture, I go running for the Bible to test their statements.

And when Kenneth says he saw the holes in Jesus hands, that throws up a big red flag. Also after the resurrection after Jesus left, he would have a resurrected body. Our resurrected bodies are made new. If Kenneth saw holes in Jesus, in his hands, wrists or anywhere that means our resurrected bodies still hold the scars of this life?

Cruxifixtion was done through the wrists . . .

An analysis of the Shroud of Turin, which many believe to be the actual burial shroud of Jesus Christ, shows a blood print in the location of the bones of the wrist





http://www.shroud.com/meacham2.htm

The Shroud of Turin as seen by the naked eye (above, top image) and in photographic negative (above, bottom image). Amidst burn marks, patches, water stains, and creases, the frontal and dorsal images of a male body may be discerned, with apparent blood flows at the wrists, right side (in the positive), head, and feet. Photograph by G. Enrie, 1933; © 1935, 1963 by the Holy Shroud Guild.​

Anthony,

It sounds to me, like you are reasoning by human standards what Jesus' body looks like. Remember that He does not always do things the way we think. That does not mean that one can run willy nilly and make up stuff. But neither should we look at it purely from a human standpoint.

Could it not be, that the nails were placed in a position that they not only were in the wrists at the base of the hand, but also in the palm? Someone in a vision, seeing a huge gapping hole, could not that hole extended into the palm of the hand. Some dictionaries said that concave part of the hand, others said the hand. . .leaving room, in my opinion, for an extension into the part of the hand connected to the wrist.

Also, could it not be that even though He is resurrected that His sacrifice is forever visible for us to remember? Our scars are not made as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.

When we have visions and dreams do we accurately see everything in the spirit exactly as it is in the natural? Or vice versa? I have had many dreams where I saw things as they were not.

One time I had an open vision, meaning I was not asleep where I saw Jesus on the mountainside, surrounded by people. I saw Him, in my vision, take a basket of bread and begin to break and pass it out to the people around Him. At that moment I understood that I was the one He was breaking and passing out.

Now, I'm fully aware that there could likely be someone who takes what I just wrote and says that I think I've gone back in time and that I was in another life time on the hillside with Jesus, and that I'm the bread of life and that God has put me here to save people But that's not at all what I'm saying. In that moment God showed me He was going to use me to help feed others "spiritually". I understood the breaking to be a breaking of my will vs His will. Yet, the vision came to me in a manner that was real.

 

[Ecclesiastes]

Anthony,

When Jesus resurrected he told Thomas to put his fingers in his hand and in his side so that he could feel and see the gaping holes. SO where is the scriptural inaccuracy? If Jesus still had holes in his hand and side (and presumedly his feet) after he resurrected, why wouldn't Dad Hagin see them?

 

[Andrew]

Question isn't whether Jesus can appear to people, the question is how do you determine which people [1] are telling the truth, and [2] how did they know it was actually Jesus, and not an angel of light?

When people screw up in their stories, or add inventive comments which veer off from scripture, I go running for the Bible to test their statements.

So what makes you think the shroud of turin is not a hoax? Just becos someone claims it so? The scientists cant agree either.

.And when Kenneth says he saw the holes in Jesus hands, that throws up a big red flag. If Kenneth saw holes in Jesus, in his hands, wrists or anywhere that means our resurrected bodies still hold the scars of this life?

why red flag? Don't you remember the doubting Thomas' event in the Bible?

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

 

[Anthony]

So what makes you think the shroud of turin is not a hoax? Just becos someone claims it so? The scientists cant agree either.

Hoax?

Maybe but so could Kenneth claim be a Hoax as well?

Also Archaology and Medicine provide strong evidence that crucfied individuals could not have been nailed through the palms of their hands. The weight of the body would have ripped the nails right through the fingers of the hands.

Dr. Pierre Barbet was the chief surgoen at St. Joseph's Hospital in Paris. In 1930 he performed experiements on cadavers, which showed that crucifixation by nails through the palms could not have supported the weight of the body on the cross.

Barbet's experiments have been repeated with the same results by Paris orthopedic surgeon Dr. Pierre Merat

Israeli archaeologists found in a New Testament-era cementary just outside of Jerusalem in 1968 an actual crucifixion victim who died in the Roman destruction of Jersalem, named Yohanon be ha-Galgol. Upon exaimination it was found that he was nailed through the radius and ulna bones of the forearm.

why red flag? Don't you remember the doubting Thomas' event in the Bible?

JN 20:27 - English Translation
then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

JN 20:27 - Original Greek - No Translation
eita legei tö Thö ma, Phere ton daktulon sou hö de kai ide tas cheiras mou, kai phere të n cheira sou kai bale eis të n pleuran mou, kai më ginou apistos alla pistos

now compare the above verse to this verse

AC 12:7 - English Translation
Suddenly an angel of the Lord appeared and a light shone in the cell. He struck Peter on the side and woke him up. "Quick, get up!" he said, and the chains fell off Peter's wrists.

AC 12:7 - Original Greek - No Transalation
kai idou aggelos kuriou epestë , kai phö s elampsen en tö oikë mati: pataxas de të n pleuran tou Petrou ë geiren auton legö n, Anasta en tachei. kai exepesan autou hai haluseis ek tö n cheirön.

We have hands and wrists in English but the same base word cheir used in Greek. One word in Greek used two different way in English.

 

[Anthony]

Anthony,

When we have visions and dreams do we accurately see everything in the spirit exactly as it is in the natural? Or vice versa? I have had many dreams where I saw things as they were not.

True, I agree visions and dreams maybe vague, But that is not what we have here. Kenneth Hagin is claiming Jesus Christ appeared in him in person. face-to-face.

 

[Andrew]

We have hands and wrists in English but the same base word cheir used in Greek. One word in Greek used two different way in English.

So when Jesus said "hands" to Thomas, was he refering to his palms or wrists? Does the Bible tell us or is it deemed as "wrists" becos science says it has to be?

also, my point in reminding you of Thomas is that the resurrected Jesus did not have a scar-free body, which you said he has. ("If Kenneth saw holes in Jesus, in his hands, wrists or anywhere that means our resurrected bodies still hold the scars of this life?")

Anthony, forget Kenneth Hagin, forget John SMith, but do you believe Jesus can appear face to face and talk to us today? Or is that somehow forbidden?

 

[Lottedah]

I prophesy and God has told me I am a prophetess, called to the office and I have to seek him and fast and my ability will develop more than I ever imagined it would. I used to be psychic and I renounced it and had MAJOR deliverance. Oh and by the way those who say God only shows his plans for the future are wrong. God shows past, present and future events and reveals anything he wants to. I am not operating under Jezebel or python, I know better and have major discernment thanks to him. so far every prophecy and vision and clearing of the past he has shown me has been right on.. isnt that the test of a true prophetess?
Nobody be discouraged or distracted by the religious demons that like to come on here and break up the sharing and fellowship. When God speaks to you theres a quickening in your spirit no demon or satan could ever match.. its ingrained within you just to know its him.

 

[Indigo]

yes.

sOuLifieD, I love your humble, discreet, little bitty "yes".

 

[Anthony]

So when Jesus said "hands" to Thomas, was he refering to his palms or wrists? Does the Bible tell us or is it deemed as "wrists" becos science says it has to be?

also, my point in reminding you of Thomas is that the resurrected Jesus did not have a scar-free body, which you said he has. ("If Kenneth saw holes in Jesus, in his hands, wrists or anywhere that means our resurrected bodies still hold the scars of this life?")

Jesus said "hands" ??? That is someone converting greek into english. We don't know what Jesus said, all we have is what someone wrote in greek. And the greek word could be either hand, wrist, or forearm.

Thomas and the rest of the Apostles saw a resurrected Jesus, but Jesus has since asscended. If Jesus holds his scars, doesn't that mean we will have ressurected bodies without improvements or repairs? - good question

Anthony, forget Kenneth Hagin, forget John SMith, but do you believe Jesus can appear face to face and talk to us today? Or is that somehow forbidden?

Can Jesus appear face to face today? Good question. I would like to think that he could come back early, but what does the Bible say?

MT 24:23-28
At that time if anyone says to you, "Look, here is the Christ!" or, "There he is!" do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time.

So if anyone tells you, "There he is, out in the desert,"do not go out; or, "Here he is, in the inner rooms," not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

When Jesus appears it won't be an exclusive quiet quest appearance to your friendly neighbor pastor, prophet, or priest.

1TH 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

AC 10:11
Jesus has gone away to heaven, and some day, just as He went, He will return!'"

 

[Heinrich]

God is Spirit. (John 14:14 I think, don't have bible here with me)
That means Jesus is Spirit
(And the Holy Spirit is Spirit)

So actually Jesus doesn't have a body. Well not a permanent one I would say.
Infact after His resurection he walked throught LOCKED CLOSED doors... You and me can't do that most of the time.

Even thinking of God as Man or Women would technicaly be incorrect.

Well that's my 5 sents.

 

[enoch son]

Didn't read all the post but I move in the office and gift.

 

[Andrew]

So actually Jesus doesn't have a body. Well not a permanent one I would say.
Infact after His resurection he walked throught LOCKED CLOSED doors... You and me can't do that most of the time.

Jesus does have a body now. But his 'body' is not like ours. It can go through walls, but it can also be touched, and He can also eat and drink. Whether you want to call that a physical body or spiritual body is not important. but I believe it is somewhere inbetween.

In the rapture, when our bodies are changed, when our "perishable" is replaced with "incorruptible" our bodies will be like that of Jesus', Jesus being our forerunner.

Don't forget that Jesus, who is our advocate and High-Priest at the Father's right hand now, is still man-God becos He is representing man to His Father. He is not some Spirit floating around in heaven. The principle is that you need one of your kind representing you, not another kind who does not know your feelings and the temptations you go through.

 

[g4goddess]

Also if Jesus can appear to Kenneth Hagin, then he can appear to Joseph Smith

Actually Anthony, I have had 3 visionary experiences where I too have seen Jesus. And he talked to me. (though not in KJ English. He spoke in NIV. lol)

I wonder... Is it that you find it so unbelievable that it could take place?(maybe your jealous!)

Or do you just have something against King James English?

And perhaps Jesus CHOSE to appear with the marks of his crucifiction for His own purposes. (was he supposed to check with you on his appearance?)

 

[deg]

Visionary? Thats sounds wonderful, or terribly horrific. I never saw him in mine, He decided to call me on the phone (I still laugh a little about it). Ah well, fine with me, I don't think I could handle seeing Him yet; I'm still getting over the two day overflow of Joy that came with a revelation of His presence! I'm not kidding when I say I laughed for the whole day yesterday, off and on. It was great, and I'm resting comfortably in this new revelation, although it is still a bit much to keep inside at times! I find giggles leaping out from every corner of my mouth!

But to see Him? Ooooh, just the thought makes my stomach turn with overwhelming emotion and desire. I couldn't handle it. I just know I couldn't. I don't know if I'll be able to see the Passion, let alone a Divinely sent vision of the Son of Glory. It's too much! What exactly occurred within your visions, if you would be so generous as to share?

In His Holiness, (and bubbling joy)
Deg

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

True, I agree visions and dreams maybe vague, But that is not what we have here. Kenneth Hagin is claiming Jesus Christ appeared in him in person. face-to-face.

Honestly Anthony, I know I may be wrong here, but I don't believe Hagen meant that he saw Jesus in the flesh. I believe it was a vision.

 

[enoch son]

I see Him every time I look in a mirror (2 cor. 3-18). My mind see my face. But the word say's Jesus face. What I'm I to believe? Faith not sight! Let God be true and every man a liar. Is not my old man a liar? Is not the word true? Heb. 11-1

 

[Follower of Christ too]

I have never seen Jesus except I have had three occasions of visions. Once when praying much for an understanding I saw the arm of the Lord and He asked " Where are you at"? Thinking He meant where I stood with Him I answered, " Only you know that Lord". Then He said "Where are you in the Word?" Then He continued to show me how I should be reading His Word.............................................................Another time I saw His face in the sky, there were 3 moons and Jesus was weeping.........Then I saw Him as though walking on clouds with a staff or something in His hand

 

[g4goddess]

Visionary? Thats sounds wonderful, or terribly horrific. I never saw him in mine, He decided to call me on the phone (I still laugh a little about it). Ah well, fine with me, I don't think I could handle seeing Him yet; I'm still getting over the two day overflow of Joy that came with a revelation of His presence! I'm not kidding when I say I laughed for the whole day yesterday, off and on. It was great, and I'm resting comfortably in this new revelation, although it is still a bit much to keep inside at times! I find giggles leaping out from every corner of my mouth!

But to see Him? Ooooh, just the thought makes my stomach turn with overwhelming emotion and desire. I couldn't handle it. I just know I couldn't. I don't know if I'll be able to see the Passion, let alone a Divinely sent vision of the Son of Glory. It's too much! What exactly occurred within your visions, if you would be so generous as to share?

In His Holiness, (and bubbling joy)
Deg

oh it was wonderful, not terrifying. I felt so much love that my feet didn't touch the ground for a week! people kept asking me why my face was different lol!

in a nutshell, He annointed me with oil, i had a throneroom experience where all i could see was the feet of God, and Mary was there hanging out too (which was a little weird, cuz i'm not even remotely catholic, but she was lovely.) the visions are quite lengthy so if you are interested, PM me and I will send them to you.

 

[Les Grands Pieds]

Hey guys,

Divine inspiration is totally a real thing. Sometimes, before service, God has told some of our youth how many alter-calls there will be. Often, they tell each other, too. They have never been wrong, and the alter calls are always as high in number as God tells them that they will be. I think that's awesome, and that really makes me believe that this stuff still goes on today.