Prophesy

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Oscarr, here is the problem I have with your position. The question is: Should someone ask for a word from the Lord, through whatever vehicle He choses to use to give that word through? Yes, certainly they should. If they should ask someone like you, simply reply, "If the Lord gives me a word for you, I'll tell you" and leave it at that. I can't believe you would have ever responded any differently, and this may have been your problem all along. You appear to have taken on the mantle that you were automatically obligated, and some sort of machine or something, and this would explain why you've now gotten off into teaching that "answering" such requests is paramount to seeking a medium (I see you repeating this ad nauseam now).

But there are critical times in believer's lives when a timely word from the Lord can be not only helpful but desperately needed. And to deny believers the right to ask for a word at a critical juncture in their lives is to simultaneously deny those who do move in genuine gifts of the Spirit from fulfilling their calling. It comes dangerously close to quenching the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21). We should be PROVING all things, not nullifying all personal prophecies out of hand as being "New Age" or something.

Tell them you will leave the responsibility in God's hands, and that if you receive a word for them you will gladly tell them, but if you don't then they will just have to live with that. But agreeing with posts like #4 is supporting not only ignorance but a faithless and uninformed view of how the gifts operate. The New Testament writers themselves were very clearly pronouncing judgments over people's lives in New Testament times, and anyone who fails to see this is showing a tremendous ignorance of not only prophecy but scripture.

I accept your view and I do certainly ask the Lord for a word from someone who asks for it. Most who ask me ask just once and the Lord usually gives me a word of encouragement for them. The ones I feel doubtful about are the ones that request a word from me day after day. This happened a couple of times when I was giving words on CF and that is why I backed off. I think the moderators of CF understand the problem and that is why they have instituted a rule that people don't give prophetic words on the public forum. My trusted mentor in the prophetic will not give words on request but will forward the request to the next equipping station meeting where a tape is made of a number of people giving words for that person as they feel the Holy Spirit is leading them. I like that because the prophetic words are coming from a group of people rather than just one person. When a person receives a successful word from me and then thinks that the same thing can happen every time they ask, then they start to believe that I am some sort of channel between the Holy Spirit and them. This puts them in a dangerous position and me too if I become an "enabler" for them to bypass the indwelling Holy Spirit and become dependent on another human to speak on behalf of the Holy Spirit to them. So it is not giving prophetic words on request that is the problem, but when it leads to one person having dependence on a prophetic person for day to day guidance, that is the problem.

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

I've kind of been lurking around this part of the forum but just wanted to share my tuppence as well.

I was around when the prophecy forum was open a about 6-9 years ago. Initially it was a lovely place, abit like this Gifts section here. However I can second what Oscarr said about users literally repeatedly requesting words from the Lord, because I was one of those users and I felt like the Lord wanted me to come straight to Him. I was in a dark place back then and felt like I couldn't hear God no matter how hard I cried and prayed. I asked the Lord for guidance but what I got back seemed like Russian to me because I was so low. At that time, I had received a word of encouragement from a young girl who was so apologetic and reserved about contacting me but was obedient enough to contact me by pm. The word that she passed on was timely and it strengthened me to get up and fight for myself and my baby daughter. However that one act - over time - translated ever so subtly into coming back again, and again, and again for another word. I didn't even realise it but it was almost addictive which was when that warning nudge came in my spirit to not ask anymore. It was as though I had to be weaned off and I have never forgotten how that felt.

With the shoe on the other foot, however - I've had moments where I have had to bring a word to both a believer and a non believer and it is not an easy thing to do (I tend to second guess whether it is ok to do so) and I therefore don't want to squash anyone from doing that. It is equally important that we encourage those with this gift to be obedient to the Holy Spirit as He urges us to share that word and to not shy away from it.

But I also think it's wise though for us to be aware of those vulnerable members of the body who - like I was back then - may not be in a position to hear from the Lord in the way that they should do. I think most of us do it here already, where we gently guide them back to talking directly with the Lord through prayer. That is what I interpreted from Oscarr's post.

For me, it took diving back into the Bible, an increased quiet time with Him to have my mind still enough to hear from Him.

I think back then offline, I also met a minister who was able to be a Titus woman for me and she both helped me to get set free from my strongholds as well as coach me about the gifts of the Holy Spirit which wasn't being taught at my local assembly.

Sorry for the long post, I also wanted to say how much I love reading the dialogue between people I have such an immense respect for.

God bless you!

 

[Heart2Soul]

I've kind of been lurking around this part of the forum but just wanted to share my tuppence as well.

I was around when the prophecy forum was open a about 6-9 years ago. Initially it was a lovely place, abit like this Gifts section here. However I can second what Oscarr said about users literally repeatedly requesting words from the Lord, because I was one of those users and I felt like the Lord wanted me to come straight to Him. I was in a dark place back then and felt like I couldn't hear God no matter how hard I cried and prayed. I asked the Lord for guidance but what I got back seemed like Russian to me because I was so low. At that time, I had received a word of encouragement from a young girl who was so apologetic and reserved about contacting me but was obedient enough to contact me by pm. The word that she passed on was timely and it strengthened me to get up and fight for myself and my baby daughter. However that one act - over time - translated ever so subtly into coming back again, and again, and again for another word. I didn't even realise it but it was almost addictive which was when that warning nudge came in my spirit to not ask anymore. It was as though I had to be weaned off and I have never forgotten how that felt.

With the shoe on the other foot, however - I've had moments where I have had to bring a word to both a believer and a non believer and it is not an easy thing to do (I tend to second guess whether it is ok to do so) and I therefore don't want to squash anyone from doing that. It is equally important that we encourage those with this gift to be obedient to the Holy Spirit as He urges us to share that word and to not shy away from it.

But I also think it's wise though for us to be aware of those vulnerable members of the body who - like I was back then - may not be in a position to hear from the Lord in the way that they should do. I think most of us do it here already, where we gently guide them back to talking directly with the Lord through prayer. That is what I interpreted from Oscarr's post.

For me, it took diving back into the Bible, an increased quiet time with Him to have my mind still enough to hear from Him.

I think back then offline, I also met a minister who was able to be a Titus woman for me and she both helped me to get set free from my strongholds as well as coach me about the gifts of the Holy Spirit which wasn't being taught at my local assembly.

Sorry for the long post, I also wanted to say how much I love reading the dialogue between people I have such an immense respect for.

God bless you!

We all should be able to hear from God ourselves....I was tempted to write a book how to hear His voice, but I never got around to it. Point is, many young Christians are never trained in learning to hear from God personally. Too many people get saved and start going to church and spend the rest of their life hearing the sermons and teachings of the Word and relying on what the Lord tells the pastor, never seeking to hear His voice themselves. Many do grow but only in certain areas. When I had a co-worker in my life that knew that I had a prophetic calling she would often call me for a word...and would often get one (not immediately, I always told her I would pray and seek God and let her know), then one day she called and wanted a word, as usual I said I would pray and let her know. The word God gave me to give her was that she needed to learn to hear from Him herself. This upset her tremendously and she exclaimed she couldn't hear from God like I could...I told her yes, you can, all you have to do is listen. He speaks to you all the time you just aren't listening. That was the last word she ever got through me.

But I do want to add something, the 1st time I was ever prophesied over was pretty amazing. Then I got prophesied over again, then I started seeking out those who prophesied...then one day God told me He wouldn't speak to me through a prophetic word anymore that it was time I learned to hear from Him myself. I got a little "cocky" and said that doesn't make sense, I am hearing from you now aren't I? So why do you say that? The funny part is I continued to go to services that prophetic speakers would be ministering and I would get in line to be prophesied over and when it came my turn he/she would just stand there and nothing...then they would say "The Lord Bless you" and move on. Never got another word for a long, long time. LOL....understand I was still young but I did learn to hear from Him myself and eventually God called me into that ministry.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I've kind of been lurking around this part of the forum but just wanted to share my tuppence as well.

I was around when the prophecy forum was open a about 6-9 years ago. Initially it was a lovely place, abit like this Gifts section here. However I can second what Oscarr said about users literally repeatedly requesting words from the Lord, because I was one of those users and I felt like the Lord wanted me to come straight to Him. I was in a dark place back then and felt like I couldn't hear God no matter how hard I cried and prayed. I asked the Lord for guidance but what I got back seemed like Russian to me because I was so low. At that time, I had received a word of encouragement from a young girl who was so apologetic and reserved about contacting me but was obedient enough to contact me by pm. The word that she passed on was timely and it strengthened me to get up and fight for myself and my baby daughter. However that one act - over time - translated ever so subtly into coming back again, and again, and again for another word. I didn't even realise it but it was almost addictive which was when that warning nudge came in my spirit to not ask anymore. It was as though I had to be weaned off and I have never forgotten how that felt.

With the shoe on the other foot, however - I've had moments where I have had to bring a word to both a believer and a non believer and it is not an easy thing to do (I tend to second guess whether it is ok to do so) and I therefore don't want to squash anyone from doing that. It is equally important that we encourage those with this gift to be obedient to the Holy Spirit as He urges us to share that word and to not shy away from it.

But I also think it's wise though for us to be aware of those vulnerable members of the body who - like I was back then - may not be in a position to hear from the Lord in the way that they should do. I think most of us do it here already, where we gently guide them back to talking directly with the Lord through prayer. That is what I interpreted from Oscarr's post.

For me, it took diving back into the Bible, an increased quiet time with Him to have my mind still enough to hear from Him.

I think back then offline, I also met a minister who was able to be a Titus woman for me and she both helped me to get set free from my strongholds as well as coach me about the gifts of the Holy Spirit which wasn't being taught at my local assembly.

Sorry for the long post, I also wanted to say how much I love reading the dialogue between people I have such an immense respect for.

God bless you!

The darkness of God is a normal event in the life of a believer. It is when God withdraws the sense of His presence for a time so that the believer's faith is strengthened in God's Word and promises, and not in any sensual feelings or emotions. David had this experience and learned to trust God no matter what. He expresses this in Psalm 23: "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, thou art with me; thy rod and staff will comfort me." This shows that the shadow of death experience is a normal part of the Christian walk. When I go through a dry period, I take great comfort in the Scripture: "Blessed are they who have seen, but blessed are they who have not seen."

The promise is that Jesus is with us always, right to the end of the world, and that He would never leave us nor forsake us. It is just that He withdraws our awareness of His presence and assistance, not His actual presence and assistance. During these times of darkness we must not blame ourselves or try to do a witch hunt on ourselves to see if there is any sin blocking the way. We are right with God. Sin is no longer a problem, ever, because Jesus took it all with Him on the Cross. But our times of darkness puts our faith in the right direction - on His promises in the Word, and not on our senses.

We don't have to hear from Him in those times. Actually we won't, because He wants us to learn to walk in that valley of the shadow of death so that we will step forward in the darkness, not knowing for sure that there will be solid ground under our feet when we take that next step. But you can be sure, that when He thinks that you are going to stray off the path and topple over the edge, He will stop you. That's what His rod and staff are for when you go through that dark place. His rod is there to give you a bit of a whack on the backside (through conviction), and His staff has a hook on the top of it to hook you around the neck and drag you back from the precipice! So during your time of darkness when you don't hear His voice, you may certainly feel His convicting rod, and His guiding staff. He doesn't need words to do those things.

The Scripture says that we should not be like a horse or mule and have to be led with a bit and bridle. This means that when we don't receive His guiding voice directly or through prophecy, we are to use our own judgment about the direction we need to travel to keep on the path of righteousness.

 

[Heart2Soul]

The darkness of God is a normal event in the life of a believer. It is when God withdraws the sense of His presence for a time so that the believer's faith is strengthened in God's Word and promises, and not in any sensual feelings or emotions. David had this experience and learned to trust God no matter what. He expresses this in Psalm 23: "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, thou art with me; thy rod and staff will comfort me." This shows that the shadow of death experience is a normal part of the Christian walk. When I go through a dry period, I take great comfort in the Scripture: "Blessed are they who have seen, but blessed are they who have not seen."

The promise is that Jesus is with us always, right to the end of the world, and that He would never leave us nor forsake us. It is just that He withdraws our awareness of His presence and assistance, not His actual presence and assistance. During these times of darkness we must not blame ourselves or try to do a witch hunt on ourselves to see if there is any sin blocking the way. We are right with God. Sin is no longer a problem, ever, because Jesus took it all with Him on the Cross. But our times of darkness puts our faith in the right direction - on His promises in the Word, and not on our senses.

We don't have to hear from Him in those times. Actually we won't, because He wants us to learn to walk in that valley of the shadow of death so that we will step forward in the darkness, not knowing for sure that there will be solid ground under our feet when we take that next step. But you can be sure, that when He thinks that you are going to stray off the path and topple over the edge, He will stop you. That's what His rod and staff are for when you go through that dark place. His rod is there to give you a bit of a whack on the backside (through conviction), and His staff has a hook on the top of it to hook you around the neck and drag you back from the precipice! So during your time of darkness when you don't hear His voice, you may certainly feel His convicting rod, and His guiding staff. He doesn't need words to do those things.

The Scripture says that we should not be like a horse or mule and have to be led with a bit and bridle. This means that when we don't receive His guiding voice directly or through prophecy, we are to use our own judgment about the direction we need to travel to keep on the path of righteousness.[/Q

 

[Heart2Soul]

This is not resting with my spirit to say "the darkness" of God. God is light, where there is light the darkness comprehends it not. There is no "darkness" of God and in no way will it ever be a "normal" event in anyone's life. God NEVER withdraws the sense of His presence...the Word says He will never leave us or forsake us.
Then you go into the second paragraph and it doesn't line up with scripture in that "Jesus withdraws our awareness of His presence and assistance" this makes it sound like Jesus just threw us out there to sink or swim....no, no, no....He sent us the Holy Spirit (that He may abide with you for ever),who is here as our comforter and our teacher and who convicts us of our sin....when we struggle with our walk we are still conscious and aware of the Holy Spirit convicting us of our sin and of our need to repent.


The Holy Spirit and His work in the “born again” believer
When Jesus was physically on earth He had asked people to believe in Him and follow. Jesus said to His disciples that He was going to leave and go back to where He came from, Heaven (John 3:13; 6:38.) But He would not leave us without a Helper; he called Him the comforter, (another like himself). In Jn.14:16 Jesus says to the disciples, soon to be apostles of the church “And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever.” John 16:13-14 “ when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. “He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.” The Spirit hears' things from Jesus; this is a personal communication (in the same manner as Christ did with the Father in John 3.32; 7.16, 8.38, 12.49), and the Spirit delivers it to man which is also personal communication. The main way is through the Scriptures the apostles were appointed to write.

Concerning prophesy...prophesy is real, it is for today, it is to exhort and edify the church. For one who is seeking confirmation or who is struggling hearing God's voice...it is God who chooses to send a word to that person. It is God speaking through His chosen vessel and it is God who chooses who to speak through. For those who profess to be speaking prophetically and it is not of God...their words will not produce anything. We have a spiritual responsibility to the body of Christ to operate in our appointed gifts so that His Church will come to the fullness of spiritual maturity in preparing for the Wedding Supper. We will never get there until the whole body begins to operate in its appointed place. So I say to all those sons and daughters as it was prophesied in God's Word:
New International Version
"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

Go in the Name of Jesus, and fulfill your calling, do not be afraid or intimidated by doctrines of men. Be obedient, trusting in the leading of the Holy Spirit to guide you.

And thus, I have put my 2 cents worth in.....

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

We all should be able to hear from God ourselves....I was tempted to write a book how to hear His voice, but I never got around to it. Point is, many young Christians are never trained in learning to hear from God personally. Too many people get saved and start going to church and spend the rest of their life hearing the sermons and teachings of the Word and relying on what the Lord tells the pastor, never seeking to hear His voice themselves. Many do grow but only in certain areas. When I had a co-worker in my life that knew that I had a prophetic calling she would often call me for a word...and would often get one (not immediately, I always told her I would pray and seek God and let her know), then one day she called and wanted a word, as usual I said I would pray and let her know. The word God gave me to give her was that she needed to learn to hear from Him herself. This upset her tremendously and she exclaimed she couldn't hear from God like I could...I told her yes, you can, all you have to do is listen. He speaks to you all the time you just aren't listening. That was the last word she ever got through me.

But I do want to add something, the 1st time I was ever prophesied over was pretty amazing. Then I got prophesied over again, then I started seeking out those who prophesied...then one day God told me He wouldn't speak to me through a prophetic word anymore that it was time I learned to hear from Him myself. I got a little "cocky" and said that doesn't make sense, I am hearing from you now aren't I? So why do you say that? The funny part is I continued to go to services that prophetic speakers would be ministering and I would get in line to be prophesied over and when it came my turn he/she would just stand there and nothing...then they would say "The Lord Bless you" and move on. Never got another word for a long, long time. LOL....understand I was still young but I did learn to hear from Him myself and eventually God called me into that ministry.

Amen and Amen! This sounds so similar - when I felt convicted in my self to not ask for another word I kind of went into what can only be described as a toddler tantrum, lol. I was that kind of Christian who would diligently go to church but knew nothing about the gifts of the Spirit. However when the Lord said no more, it gave/forced me the task to unlearn the previous and to take time and learn to hear from the Lord myself.

When I was reading this thread, it made me realise that it wasn't until 2013 and then 2015 that I had the confidence to step out in obedience and share a word with the people concerned.

 

[Hidden In Him]

However that one act - over time - translated ever so subtly into coming back again, and again, and again for another word. I didn't even realise it but it was almost addictive which was when that warning nudge came in my spirit to not ask anymore. It was as though I had to be weaned off and I have never forgotten how that felt.

Thanks for sharing, Lotuspetal, and I like your avatar, btw.

This is what I was talking about. For those truly submitted to God, the convicting power of the Holy Spirit will correct them when they are starting to enter into disobedience. But those who are NOT truly submitted must be chastised.

But I also think it's wise though for us to be aware of those vulnerable members of the body who - like I was back then - may not be in a position to hear from the Lord in the way that they should.

I think most believers are in this place. Prophecy, visions and dreams are prophesied to be the hallmark of the end-time church (Joel 2:28), and yet I have met very few who can accurately interpret even their own dreams, let alone anyone else's.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Point is, many young Christians are never trained in learning to hear from God personally. Too many people get saved and start going to church and spend the rest of their life hearing the sermons and teachings of the Word and relying on what the Lord tells the pastor, never seeking to hear His voice themselves.

Excellent point.

The word God gave me to give her was that she needed to learn to hear from Him herself. This upset her tremendously and she exclaimed she couldn't hear from God like I could...I told her yes, you can, all you have to do is listen. He speaks to you all the time you just aren't listening. That was the last word she ever got through me.

I have a brother I do numerous interpretations for, and the Lord Himself gave him a dream making this very point. It's something I had been telling him, but the dream made it all that much more abundantly clear. He's still struggling. He's very dependent upon others. But he has great potential (as other dreams have pointed out), so I'm trying to be as patient with him as I can.

But I do want to add something, the 1st time I was ever prophesied over was pretty amazing. Then I got prophesied over again, then I started seeking out those who prophesied...then one day God told me He wouldn't speak to me through a prophetic word anymore that it was time I learned to hear from Him myself.

Yet another case in point of what I've been saying. Those submitted to the Spirit of God will be quieted. This is the ONLY way that the true body of Christ can even operate in the gifts with any sort of order and efficiency. It should not be directed by the flesh, but by the Spirit.

The funny part is I continued to go to services that prophetic speakers would be ministering and I would get in line to be prophesied over and when it came my turn he/she would just stand there and nothing...then they would say "The Lord Bless you" and move on. Never got another word for a long, long time. LOL....

A Ha Ha!

 

[Heart2Soul]

Excellent point.


I have a brother I do numerous interpretations for, and the Lord Himself gave him a dream making this very point. It's something I had been telling him, but the dream made it all that much more abundantly clear. He's still struggling. He's very dependent upon others. But he has great potential (as other dreams have pointed out), so I'm trying to be as patient with him as I can.


Yet another case in point of what I've been saying. Those submitted to the Spirit of God will be quieted. This is the ONLY way that the true body of Christ can even operate in the gifts with any sort of order and efficiency. It should not be directed by the flesh, but by the Spirit.


A Ha Ha!

To tell you the truth I rather prefer to hear directly from my Father, but if someone does offer to speak a word over me...which hasn't happened in 20 years....I would definitely know if it was genuine or not.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This is not resting with my spirit to say "the darkness" of God. God is light, where there is light the darkness comprehends it not. There is no "darkness" of God and in no way will it ever be a "normal" event in anyone's life. God NEVER withdraws the sense of His presence...the Word says He will never leave us or forsake us.
Then you go into the second paragraph and it doesn't line up with scripture in that "Jesus withdraws our awareness of His presence and assistance" this makes it sound like Jesus just threw us out there to sink or swim....no, no, no....He sent us the Holy Spirit (that He may abide with you for ever),who is here as our comforter and our teacher and who convicts us of our sin....when we struggle with our walk we are still conscious and aware of the Holy Spirit convicting us of our sin and of our need to repent.


The Holy Spirit and His work in the “born again” believer
When Jesus was physically on earth He had asked people to believe in Him and follow. Jesus said to His disciples that He was going to leave and go back to where He came from, Heaven (John 3:13; 6:38.) But He would not leave us without a Helper; he called Him the comforter, (another like himself). In Jn.14:16 Jesus says to the disciples, soon to be apostles of the church “And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever.” John 16:13-14 “ when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. “He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.” The Spirit hears' things from Jesus; this is a personal communication (in the same manner as Christ did with the Father in John 3.32; 7.16, 8.38, 12.49), and the Spirit delivers it to man which is also personal communication. The main way is through the Scriptures the apostles were appointed to write.

Concerning prophesy...prophesy is real, it is for today, it is to exhort and edify the church. For one who is seeking confirmation or who is struggling hearing God's voice...it is God who chooses to send a word to that person. It is God speaking through His chosen vessel and it is God who chooses who to speak through. For those who profess to be speaking prophetically and it is not of God...their words will not produce anything. We have a spiritual responsibility to the body of Christ to operate in our appointed gifts so that His Church will come to the fullness of spiritual maturity in preparing for the Wedding Supper. We will never get there until the whole body begins to operate in its appointed place. So I say to all those sons and daughters as it was prophesied in God's Word:
New International Version
"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

Go in the Name of Jesus, and fulfill your calling, do not be afraid or intimidated by doctrines of men. Be obedient, trusting in the leading of the Holy Spirit to guide you.

And thus, I have put my 2 cents worth in.....

It is a settled fact that God is always with us. This is clearly stated in His Word. He said that He would never leave us nor forsake us and that He would be with us until the end of the world. There is no doubt about that. But there are times where we have no sense of His presence with us even though He is there. It is like the sun. On a clear day we can see it, but when the dark clouds roll over, we no longer see it, but yet it is still there. After a period of time, the clouds roll away and the sun appears again. The sense of the presence of God is much like that. There are times when we sense His presence and this is a blessing, and then comes a time when it seems that there are dark clouds obscuring His presence from us. He is still there, but we cannot perceive Him, so we have to trust the promise in His word that He is still with us. His eye is always on the righteous and His ears are open to their prayers - whether they sense His presence or not. He allows this to happen so that we maintain our faith in His word and not on our senses. If we are always looking for a sensory experience to base our faith on, the devil is often there to give us one because he would want to dislodge our trust in God Word and to redirect it on to our senses. When it seems that we are putting too much trust in our senses rather than God's Word, He withdraws the sense of His presence to put our faith back on the straight and narrow of His word. Once we are stabilised in our faith, then He reveals Himself again. This is standard Reformed doctrine and has been the common experience of all the genuine saints of God through the centuries.

One thing we have to remember about NT prophecy. It is quite different from OT prophecy. OT prophecy was given as "thus says the Lord" and was not questioned. But NT prophecy is to be judged and evaluated to ensure that is genuine and appropriate. OT prophecy came through appoint prophets while NT prophecy is a gift to the body of Christ and is manifested in the corporate body where it can be heard and evaluated. This is a safeguard to prevent a self styled "prophet" operating apart from the body of Christ and saying things that are not consistent with what God is doing in the body of Christ. "Lone Ranger" prophets can be a danger to the Church, and most heresies and cults over the centuries have started by this type of teacher or prophet. The appropriate place for NT prophecy is in a gathering where there are experienced men and women of God who have sound doctrine and who are able to moderate any prophetic words that are manifested.

A genuine prophetic person has a teachable spirit and prefers to work within the body of Christ and to subject prophecies to the examination of sound mentors and leaders. My prophetic friend was running a conference and noticed that during the meetings a person whom he did not know was going around giving personal words to folks in the meeting. He quietly sidled up beside him and heard what he was saying and discovered that he was saying quite inappropriate things. When he challenged the guy, the guy said that God had sent him to that meeting to give people God's words, and then proceeded to say to my friend that God had revealed to him that he had three wives, which was totally untrue. My friend then had to get the assistance of a very nice but large usher to help him leave the meeting, and when the guy saw the usher advancing on him he said that he suddenly felt led of God to leave the meeting! This is an example of someone acting independently of the body of Christ and having a puffed up appreciation of his prophetic gift, and this had corrupted his gift to the point where he was not prepared to subject himself to the appropriate leadership with his prophetic manifestations.

When I give a prophecy, I never ascribe absolute authority from God in what I say. It is not what I sense about the prophecy that is important, but it is the impact on the hearer. If I give a prophetic word in a meeting and the leaders came up to me afterward and informed me that they did not concur with it, then I would have to acknowledge that I had made an error and they would be free to ignore it. I try to have my prophetic words recorded so that they can be examined to ensure that they pass the test of genuineness.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think this is where you need to exercise a little discipline of sorts, not necessarily chastising or rebuking them, but being firm in repeating that if you receive a word for them you will tell them. I do the same sorts of things with dream interpretation. The funny thing is, in my case the Lord has had a way of allowing them entrance or not (for lack of a better term) without my even having to say things most of the time. I will spend weeks sometimes focusing primarily on one or two people, and then suddenly I will move on. Those corresponding with me regularly nearly always seem to be so in tune with the Spirit that they suddenly stop posting me. But I'm ALWAYS clear to point out that I only do things as the Spirit leads me, and if the Spirit leads me to not give the requests of certain people a moments thought, I don't. It's as simple as that. If they have a complaint, they can take it up with the Lord. I'm not in charge of things.


I don't like this rule. I'm sure they feel they have their reasons, but it goes against the clear command of scripture in the verse I quoted you. We are to test the spirits, not simply forbid prophecy because the Devil is fully capable of using others as well, or because frauds can "prophesy" in the flesh.


No offense, Oscarr, but I view this as a cop out, in refusing to take genuine responsibility in the matter. I certainly think taking it before a group can be an option, but a true prophet can often hear from God Himself without needing to, and should own up to simply chastising those who are not submitted to the Spirit of God, if necessary.


Again, Oscarr, what is the problem with simply putting people in their place?!

I can understand why there is a rule on CF about giving prophetic words. Over the years, I have seen prophetic words that I am sure that if they were given in a church meeting, the leadership would be down on that person giving him some serious correction. The problem with a public forum like this where moderators might not have the experience in the prophetic to properly moderate prophetic words, or because of the high number of posts, they are not made aware of anything suspicious unless the post is reported to them, that prophetic words on CF are not judged and evaluated in the way they should be as advised by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14. I think that in recognition of this, the moderators decided to stop prophetic words from happening for the safety of all members.

It is very difficult for a relatively inexperienced person, when confronted with a "thus says the Lord" type of prophecy, to reject it, because there is that guilt factor about rejecting a word that purportedly comes from the mouth of God Himself. This is why so many good people have been harmed by prophetic words that have not come from God at all, and has corrupted their thinking and direction and caused much conflict and confusion.

I think that prophetic words should be given in an environment where they can be recorded and moderated by experienced people in the prophetic. This means that if a suspect word is said, a leader can response by saying, "We can safely ignore that one." If the "prophet" reacts angrily, then that would confirm that the guy has a wrong attitude and is unteachable and therefore his prophetic words should be ignored.

I am the senior elder in my church, but I am surrounded by a good team of experienced men who moderate me. I feel quite safe in that environment and instead of limiting me, it empowers me and gives me greater confidence in my leadership and ministry, because if and when I make a mistake, those men will gather around me and give me the correction I need in a very loving and supportive way. The same needs to happen with someone gifted in the prophetic. It empowers a prophetic person and gives them confidence to exercise their gift knowing that there are good mentors to moderate what is being said.

 

[Heart2Soul]

It is a settled fact that God is always with us. This is clearly stated in His Word. He said that He would never leave us nor forsake us and that He would be with us until the end of the world. There is no doubt about that. But there are times where we have no sense of His presence with us even though He is there. It is like the sun. On a clear day we can see it, but when the dark clouds roll over, we no longer see it, but yet it is still there. After a period of time, the clouds roll away and the sun appears again. The sense of the presence of God is much like that. There are times when we sense His presence and this is a blessing, and then comes a time when it seems that there are dark clouds obscuring His presence from us. He is still there, but we cannot perceive Him, so we have to trust the promise in His word that He is still with us. His eye is always on the righteous and His ears are open to their prayers - whether they sense His presence or not. He allows this to happen so that we maintain our faith in His word and not on our senses. If we are always looking for a sensory experience to base our faith on, the devil is often there to give us one because he would want to dislodge our trust in God Word and to redirect it on to our senses. When it seems that we are putting too much trust in our senses rather than God's Word, He withdraws the sense of His presence to put our faith back on the straight and narrow of His word. Once we are stabilised in our faith, then He reveals Himself again. This is standard Reformed doctrine and has been the common experience of all the genuine saints of God through the centuries.

One thing we have to remember about NT prophecy. It is quite different from OT prophecy. OT prophecy was given as "thus says the Lord" and was not questioned. But NT prophecy is to be judged and evaluated to ensure that is genuine and appropriate. OT prophecy came through appoint prophets while NT prophecy is a gift to the body of Christ and is manifested in the corporate body where it can be heard and evaluated. This is a safeguard to prevent a self styled "prophet" operating apart from the body of Christ and saying things that are not consistent with what God is doing in the body of Christ. "Lone Ranger" prophets can be a danger to the Church, and most heresies and cults over the centuries have started by this type of teacher or prophet. The appropriate place for NT prophecy is in a gathering where there are experienced men and women of God who have sound doctrine and who are able to moderate any prophetic words that are manifested.

A genuine prophetic person has a teachable spirit and prefers to work within the body of Christ and to subject prophecies to the examination of sound mentors and leaders. My prophetic friend was running a conference and noticed that during the meetings a person whom he did not know was going around giving personal words to folks in the meeting. He quietly sidled up beside him and heard what he was saying and discovered that he was saying quite inappropriate things. When he challenged the guy, the guy said that God had sent him to that meeting to give people God's words, and then proceeded to say to my friend that God had revealed to him that he had three wives, which was totally untrue. My friend then had to get the assistance of a very nice but large usher to help him leave the meeting, and when the guy saw the usher advancing on him he said that he suddenly felt led of God to leave the meeting! This is an example of someone acting independently of the body of Christ and having a puffed up appreciation of his prophetic gift, and this had corrupted his gift to the point where he was not prepared to subject himself to the appropriate leadership with his prophetic manifestations.

When I give a prophecy, I never ascribe absolute authority from God in what I say. It is not what I sense about the prophecy that is important, but it is the impact on the hearer. If I give a prophetic word in a meeting and the leaders came up to me afterward and informed me that they did not concur with it, then I would have to acknowledge that I had made an error and they would be free to ignore it. I try to have my prophetic words recorded so that they can be examined to ensure that they pass the test of genuineness.

Well we can't put God in a box and expect that He manifests His Word through us all the same way. So I respect how you use Wisdom in your calling. I am a seer (see it in my spirit) as well as hear the Voice of God speaking to me. I have never done the group thing with a recorder....I would probably find myself getting tripped and repeating what I hear the others saying or simply doubt what I heard after hearing what others said. So most of my prophetic gift comes through intercessory prayer...I am talking 2 and 3 hours on my knees or prone on my face, or whatever. I have had the Gift of Wisdom and the Gift of Knowledge given to me instantly...but not prophecy and I am always alone in my prayer room with God....but every word He ever gave me was confirmed. Like I said I didn't prophecy on a continual basis...maybe 2 or 3 a year? If that many....where I was actually sent to the person to speak. I guess I just didn't have that many people cross my path that God wanted to speak to ...??? I don't know I never asked Him. Besides....I struggled with even admitting I was called as a prophetic seer....I didn't want to face scorn and ridicule so I kept a very low profile.

I think what I have a struggle with on your posts is not being able to fully comprehend your message. It's written on a rather scholarly level and is complicated for a simple mind such as myself. lol Ok I am not that simple, I am educated and have a college degree...God Bless Oscarr! Keep teaching I am listening not always agreeing but listening.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Well we can't put God in a box and expect that He manifests His Word through us all the same way. So I respect how you use Wisdom in your calling. I am a seer (see it in my spirit) as well as hear the Voice of God speaking to me. I have never done the group thing with a recorder....I would probably find myself getting tripped and repeating what I hear the others saying or simply doubt what I heard after hearing what others said. So most of my prophetic gift comes through intercessory prayer...I am talking 2 and 3 hours on my knees or prone on my face, or whatever. I have had the Gift of Wisdom and the Gift of Knowledge given to me instantly...but not prophecy and I am always alone in my prayer room with God....but every word He ever gave me was confirmed. Like I said I didn't prophecy on a continual basis...maybe 2 or 3 a year? If that many....where I was actually sent to the person to speak. I guess I just didn't have that many people cross my path that God wanted to speak to ...??? I don't know I never asked Him. Besides....I struggled with even admitting I was called as a prophetic seer....I didn't want to face scorn and ridicule so I kept a very low profile.

I think what I have a struggle with on your posts is not being able to fully comprehend your message. It's written on a rather scholarly level and is complicated for a simple mind such as myself. lol Ok I am not that simple, I am educated and have a college degree...God Bless Oscarr! Keep teaching I am listening not always agreeing but listening.

Seeing that you are educated and have a college degree, I feel free to mention to you that I have an MA in English Literature and an MDiv. So we are alike in our level of education and see the value of it. I think this is why I bought up every book I could on the prophetic from my favourite Christian second hand bookshop so I could get a broadest picture of what the prophetic was all about. So I have read the most prominent authors and practititioners of the prophetic, and viewed the good, bad and the ugly. I think that balanced research should always look at all aspects of it. I am indebted to Rodney W Francis as one of my best mentors, and have worked with him closely over the years in equipping meetings and prophetic conferences. He is founder of the GFM ministry and you can view his teaching on Youtube. I recommend him to you as a very sound teacher on the prophetic.

William Branham, in my view, was the best "seer" prophet I have ever read about. His ministry was phenomenal. I know he went a bit dalooley at the end of his ministry and that is because he went against his mentors who advised him to keep to his prophetic and healing ministry and not try to be a Bible teacher.

I must admit that the "seer" type of prophetic ministry is out of my experience and I have no personal instances of it. I don't see images when I exercise my gift. My "seed thought" comes as a phrase or a verse of Scripture. I had a friend come as a guest preacher in my church recently, and after his preaching he came down and gave a prophetic word to every member of the congregation (around 30 people). I recorded them all on my small digital recorder. It was amazing that he could do that. I have done it to two or three people in a meeting I took as a visiting preacher, but not to every person. He gave a word to one of our elders, whom he had never met, and was totally accurate about him, so accurate you would have thought he was reading his mail! It was also amazing how the people accepted his ministry, seeing that as "middle of the road" Presbyterians, they had never been exposed to prophetic ministry before.

My old pastor who first mentored me in the prophetic, when I was in my late 20s, said that to be genuine in the prophetic I had to be a man of prayer and of the Word. That was the only way to develop sensitivity to the prompting of the Holy Spirit and to be able to self-monitor what was said in accordance with the sound teaching of God's Word. I think that is is why I am rather strict about a prophetic word agreeing entirely with the teaching of NT Scripture and being entirely different from OT prophecy.

The reason why I have done extensive research into the prophetic is for my own safety to ensure that I know as much as I can about all aspects of the prophetic, what is true and what is suspect.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Seeing that you are educated and have a college degree, I feel free to mention to you that I have an MA in English Literature and an MDiv. So we are alike in our level of education and see the value of it. I think this is why I bought up every book I could on the prophetic from my favourite Christian second hand bookshop so I could get a broadest picture of what the prophetic was all about. So I have read the most prominent authors and practititioners of the prophetic, and viewed the good, bad and the ugly. I think that balanced research should always look at all aspects of it. I am indebted to Rodney W Francis as one of my best mentors, and have worked with him closely over the years in equipping meetings and prophetic conferences. He is founder of the GFM ministry and you can view his teaching on Youtube. I recommend him to you as a very sound teacher on the prophetic.

William Branham, in my view, was the best "seer" prophet I have ever read about. His ministry was phenomenal. I know he went a bit dalooley at the end of his ministry and that is because he went against his mentors who advised him to keep to his prophetic and healing ministry and not try to be a Bible teacher.

I must admit that the "seer" type of prophetic ministry is out of my experience and I have no personal instances of it. I don't see images when I exercise my gift. My "seed thought" comes as a phrase or a verse of Scripture. I had a friend come as a guest preacher in my church recently, and after his preaching he came down and gave a prophetic word to every member of the congregation (around 30 people). I recorded them all on my small digital recorder. It was amazing that he could do that. I have done it to two or three people in a meeting I took as a visiting preacher, but not to every person. He gave a word to one of our elders, whom he had never met, and was totally accurate about him, so accurate you would have thought he was reading his mail! It was also amazing how the people accepted his ministry, seeing that as "middle of the road" Presbyterians, they had never been exposed to prophetic ministry before.

My old pastor who first mentored me in the prophetic, when I was in my late 20s, said that to be genuine in the prophetic I had to be a man of prayer and of the Word. That was the only way to develop sensitivity to the prompting of the Holy Spirit and to be able to self-monitor what was said in accordance with the sound teaching of God's Word. I think that is is why I am rather strict about a prophetic word agreeing entirely with the teaching of NT Scripture and being entirely different from OT prophecy.

The reason why I have done extensive research into the prophetic is for my own safety to ensure that I know as much as I can about all aspects of the prophetic, what is true and what is suspect.

But we also have to remember to not quench the Spirit. But as you said prayer and the Word...that is exactly how I was in my ministry. As I said God gave me prophetic words and visions during my prayer time. My favorite teacher of all time was Lester Sumrall. He taught it and he walked it. Whenever he ministered signs and wonders followed the preaching of the Word. Amazing man of God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The Scripture says that we should not be like a horse or mule and have to be led with a bit and bridle. This means that when we don't receive His guiding voice directly or through prophecy, we are to use our own judgment about the direction we need to travel to keep on the path of righteousness.

Just catching up to this thread again, and this is a fairly good word, Oscarr.

It is a settled fact that God is always with us. This is clearly stated in His Word. He said that He would never leave us nor forsake us and that He would be with us until the end of the world. There is no doubt about that. But there are times where we have no sense of His presence with us even though He is there. It is like the sun. On a clear day we can see it, but when the dark clouds roll over, we no longer see it, but yet it is still there. After a period of time, the clouds roll away and the sun appears again. The sense of the presence of God is much like that. There are times when we sense His presence and this is a blessing, and then comes a time when it seems that there are dark clouds obscuring His presence from us. He is still there, but we cannot perceive Him, so we have to trust the promise in His word that He is still with us. His eye is always on the righteous and His ears are open to their prayers - whether they sense His presence or not. He allows this to happen so that we maintain our faith in His word and not on our senses. If we are always looking for a sensory experience to base our faith on, the devil is often there to give us one because he would want to dislodge our trust in God Word and to redirect it on to our senses. When it seems that we are putting too much trust in our senses rather than God's Word, He withdraws the sense of His presence to put our faith back on the straight and narrow of His word. Once we are stabilised in our faith, then He reveals Himself again. This is standard Reformed doctrine and has been the common experience of all the genuine saints of God through the centuries.

One thing we have to remember about NT prophecy. It is quite different from OT prophecy. OT prophecy was given as "thus says the Lord" and was not questioned. But NT prophecy is to be judged and evaluated to ensure that is genuine and appropriate. OT prophecy came through appoint prophets while NT prophecy is a gift to the body of Christ and is manifested in the corporate body where it can be heard and evaluated. This is a safeguard to prevent a self styled "prophet" operating apart from the body of Christ and saying things that are not consistent with what God is doing in the body of Christ. "Lone Ranger" prophets can be a danger to the Church, and most heresies and cults over the centuries have started by this type of teacher or prophet. The appropriate place for NT prophecy is in a gathering where there are experienced men and women of God who have sound doctrine and who are able to moderate any prophetic words that are manifested.

A genuine prophetic person has a teachable spirit and prefers to work within the body of Christ and to subject prophecies to the examination of sound mentors and leaders. My prophetic friend was running a conference and noticed that during the meetings a person whom he did not know was going around giving personal words to folks in the meeting. He quietly sidled up beside him and heard what he was saying and discovered that he was saying quite inappropriate things. When he challenged the guy, the guy said that God had sent him to that meeting to give people God's words, and then proceeded to say to my friend that God had revealed to him that he had three wives, which was totally untrue. My friend then had to get the assistance of a very nice but large usher to help him leave the meeting, and when the guy saw the usher advancing on him he said that he suddenly felt led of God to leave the meeting! This is an example of someone acting independently of the body of Christ and having a puffed up appreciation of his prophetic gift, and this had corrupted his gift to the point where he was not prepared to subject himself to the appropriate leadership with his prophetic manifestations.

When I give a prophecy, I never ascribe absolute authority from God in what I say. It is not what I sense about the prophecy that is important, but it is the impact on the hearer. If I give a prophetic word in a meeting and the leaders came up to me afterward and informed me that they did not concur with it, then I would have to acknowledge that I had made an error and they would be free to ignore it. I try to have my prophetic words recorded so that they can be examined to ensure that they pass the test of genuineness.

So is this. Very nice.

I can understand why there is a rule on CF about giving prophetic words. Over the years, I have seen prophetic words that I am sure that if they were given in a church meeting, the leadership would be down on that person giving him some serious correction. The problem with a public forum like this where moderators might not have the experience in the prophetic to properly moderate prophetic words, or because of the high number of posts, they are not made aware of anything suspicious unless the post is reported to them, that prophetic words on CF are not judged and evaluated in the way they should be as advised by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14. I think that in recognition of this, the moderators decided to stop prophetic words from happening for the safety of all members.

Unfortunately, I received a warning from moderators this afternoon about questioning CF rules, so I'm not free to speak about this issue.

It is very difficult for a relatively inexperienced person, when confronted with a "thus says the Lord" type of prophecy, to reject it, because there is that guilt factor about rejecting a word that purportedly comes from the mouth of God Himself. This is why so many good people have been harmed by prophetic words that have not come from God at all, and has corrupted their thinking and direction and caused much conflict and confusion.

I dunno, Oscarr. I think there should be a natural instinct within all of us that says, "I think I'll wait on that and see." I think anyone who draws close to God at all will have an inner suspicion already at work in their hearts, and take a "wait and see" attitude. Those who do not would IMO be people who have not yet drawn close to God at any appreciative level, and for these types they would be vulnerable to any and all deceptions the enemy might throw at them, not just this one.

I am the senior elder in my church, but I am surrounded by a good team of experienced men who moderate me. I feel quite safe in that environment and instead of limiting me, it empowers me and gives me greater confidence in my leadership and ministry, because if and when I make a mistake, those men will gather around me and give me the correction I need in a very loving and supportive way. The same needs to happen with someone gifted in the prophetic. It empowers a prophetic person and gives them confidence to exercise their gift knowing that there are good mentors to moderate what is being said.

You seem to support being censored yourself, and yet don't support censoring others when necessary. I find your position to be inconsistent.

I could on the prophetic from my favourite Christian second hand bookshop so I could get a broadest picture of what the prophetic was all about. So I have read the most prominent authors and practititioners of the prophetic, and viewed the good, bad and the ugly.

I hope you won't take offense here, Oscarr, and btw I appreciate your courteous responses to my posts. I'm fairly strongly opposed to your main position in this thread, but it's nice being able to talk to someone about doctrines without it becoming ugly, LoL. And you know I'm your friend, so I'm speaking only out of genuine concern. Your opinions on things affect others, more than you realize (as I also told you privately), so it concerns me when I see you sympathizing too strongly with positions that run directly counter to the written word of God.

But about the above, this is exactly why I would be careful about reading other authors, and I mean on ANYTHING. I am surrounded by an entire room of Christian scholarship and have a library several times the sizes of most Christian pastors, but I only go to scholarly works when and IF the Spirit leads me. I let the Holy Spirit ALONE teach me, and only go to anyone else on this planet of the Spirit specifically directs me to. If you're not careful, you can swallow teachings that sound accurate but are not, and I learned this so long ago that I eventually started bowing out of receiving "mentoring" of any sort. Some may take this as arrogance but in fact it was a step I took in obedience to God, and I have yet to regret it. This doesn't mean there aren't those who might be able to teach me some things, but it will only be allowed as the Spirit of God directs me to them.

As for having no choice but to submit to authority in some instances, I do when forced. But that's a different matter entirely.

But we also have to remember to not quench the Spirit.

Agreed. My point precisely.

My favorite teacher of all time was Lester Sumrall. He taught it and he walked it. Whenever he ministered signs and wonders followed the preaching of the Word. Amazing man of God.

As men of God go, I liked Lester too.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Unfortunately, I received a warning from moderators this afternoon about questioning CF rules, so I'm not free to speak about this issue.

Sometimes doing stuff on CF is like walking through a mine field. Every now and again we hit a mine!

I dunno, Oscarr. I think there should be a natural instinct within all of us that says, "I think I'll wait on that and see." I think anyone who draws close to God at all will have an inner suspicion already at work in their hearts, and take a "wait and see" attitude. Those who do not would IMO be people who have not yet drawn close to God at any appreciative level, and for these types they would be vulnerable to any and all deceptions the enemy might throw at them, not just this one.

There is a Scripture that says "But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil (Hebrews 5:14). This is quite true in the area of the prophetic. As we develop the gift through use plus trial and error, we are trained to discern which is genuine prophecy and which is not. This is why I support prophetic workshops where people can get solid teaching from experienced teachers and be able to practice their gift under supervision, free from criticism if they make an error. I think that every one who wants to move in the prophetic needs to go through a time of apprenticeship to gain experience. Paul said that he would not allow a novice in the faith to assume leadership. Using the prophetic gift is a type of leadership function and therefore a novice in the faith needs a level of supervision to keep him safe from error and to keep him motivated, until he become experienced in prayer and in the Word to be able to know that his prophetic words are sound and appropriate.

You seem to support being censored yourself, and yet don't support censoring others when necessary. I find your position to be inconsistent.

I give people the benefit of the doubt and are not quick to jump in and correct anyone unless it is vitally necessary. I have done this on the Prophecy forum when it was open, especially when I have seen a long, shakespeare language judgmental prophecy; or one that tells someone they have an evil spirit or exposes a sin in a person, such prophecies don't strike me as kosher. I can't remember ever being told that any prophecy I have given has been wrong. Only once, out of the 200 odd prophecies I gave on the Prophecy forum that someone said they could not see how it was relevant to them. I told them to ignore the prophecy. But I am prepared and willing to take correction where it is appropriate and from people I know and trust. But an elder did criticise me once (not about the prophetic) and I went home with my tail between my legs. Halfway home I asked the Lord whether the criticism was from Him. He said, "Nope!" and I went on my way rejoicing! But I have received correction from the other good men in my church and I have accepted it and taken it on board willingly because I just knew it was from the Lord through them.

I hope you won't take offense here, Oscarr, and btw I appreciate your courteous responses to my posts. I'm fairly strongly opposed to your main position in this thread, but it's nice being able to talk to someone about doctrines without it becoming ugly, LoL. And you know I'm your friend, so I'm speaking only out of genuine concern. Your opinions on things affect others, more than you realize (as I also told you privately), so it concerns me when I see you sympathizing too strongly with positions that run directly counter to the written word of God.

I don't take offence because I don't take anything personally, and if someone has a go at me personally I told them to kick the ball and not the player. I am not legalistic in my attitude and I don't treat the Bible as a lawbook. There has to be a balance between correcting someone and not discouraging them and putting them off taking chances in the prophetic. It would be helpful if you could give me examples of sympathizing too strongly with positions which run counter to the written word. You can start a private conversation with me and I will be very happy to have the discussion.

But about the above, this is exactly why I would be careful about reading other authors, and I mean on ANYTHING. I am surrounded by an entire room of Christian scholarship and have a library several times the sizes of most Christian pastors, but I only go to scholarly works when and IF the Spirit leads me. I let the Holy Spirit ALONE teach me, and only go to anyone else on this planet of the Spirit specifically directs me to. If you're not careful, you can swallow teachings that sound accurate but are not, and I learned this so long ago that I eventually started bowing out of receiving "mentoring" of any sort. Some may take this as arrogance but in fact it was a step I took in obedience to God, and I have yet to regret it. This doesn't mean there aren't those who might be able to teach me some things, but it will only be allowed as the Spirit of God directs me to them.

I guess it's my academic training. If I was to do a doctorate, I would have to research everything that is written about my chosen topic. I would have to closely study the good, bad and the ugly to get the best appreciation of the scholarship. This is necessary because a doctorate thesis has to be totally original and not a repeat of what has already been written. If it is a repeat it would be downgraded to a mastorate thesis which doesn't have to be original. I wanted to know what the whole range of authors wrote about the prophetic, but studying them does not mean that I agreed with them or adopted all their views. There were some who verged on the "spooky spiritual" and went into areas of the prophetic where I wouldn't dare to go. But it was good to see what they did and said, because it showed me what to avoid. It goes along with the Scripture, "In the multitude of counsellors there is safety." We don't have to comply with everyone who gives advice, spoken or written. Some things are written for us - for our learning, and others are written "to" us in the sense that we can put those things safely into practice.

As for having no choice but to submit to authority in some instances, I do when forced. But that's a different matter entirely.

It depends. There is nowhere in the NT that any believer, whether he be a pastor, elder, or any other type of leader, was given absolute authority over another believer. All guidance from a leader is advisory, not authorative. We have the choice to comply or not. The Shepherding Discipleship movement was the worst heresy involving inappropriate authority and it caused untold damage to the lives of vulnerable believers and caused major divisions in churches.
Lester is one of my favourites as well. [/quote]

 

[Hidden In Him]

Sometimes doing stuff on CF is like walking through a mine field. Every now and again we hit a mine!

LoL. When you've had your legs blown out from under you a few times, you kinda learn to limit your movement anyway.

Now drop the subject before you get me in more trouble, LoL.

There is a Scripture that says "But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil (Hebrews 5:14). This is quite true in the area of the prophetic. As we develop the gift through use plus trial and error, we are trained to discern which is genuine prophecy and which is not. This is why I support prophetic workshops where people can get solid teaching from experienced teachers and be able to practice their gift under supervision, free from criticism if they make an error.

Ha Ha! If anyone had tried to mentor me in my gifts, I'd tell them to go take a hike, LoL. No offense, but I think taking supervision from present church leadership is how we got ourselves INTO this mess, Oscarr. The way out for the new leadership that is coming is going to be to get their instruction and leading directly from the Spirit of God, not men.

Feel free to disagree if you like. I know there are a few good ones out there, but even if there were I think believers should devote themselves to being instructed by the Teacher God gave us, and ALWAYS view the teachings of the brethren with circumspection and a healthy suspicion until proven trustworthy.

I give people the benefit of the doubt and are not quick to jump in and correct anyone unless it is vitally necessary.

Ok, but now hold on. You actually posted an "agree" to the following words:
"New Testament prophecy will edify, exhort and comfort, 1 Corinthians 14:3 so, if the prophecy you hear does not build you up, encourage or calm you, it is not from God.

Old Testament prophets warned of failures, of sin and iniquity because the Old Covenant demanded the price be paid for breaking the Law and in the New Covenant, Jesus washed all our sins away and paid the price for us, Galatians 3:13-15.

If someone prophesies over you, keep the above in mind and reject the "prophets" of today who speak doom and gloom into your life."

In other posts you seem to agree with these words as well, and yet I showed you plainly from scripture (through only one from among several passages I could have quoted you) where they were indeed prophesying destruction in the lives of New Testament believers who were walking in gross disobedience to God, and corrupting His church in the process.

I can understand not correcting words like this if you felt the person posting it would not receive correction, but agreeing with it suggests you're actually too SLOW to correct when necessary, and partly because you may actually sympathize with false teaching. This is what troubles me, and it's why I'm involved in this thread.

I guess it's my academic training. If I was to do a doctorate, I would have to research everything that is written about my chosen topic. I would have to closely study the good, bad and the ugly to get the best appreciation of the scholarship. This is necessary because a doctorate thesis has to be totally original and not a repeat of what has already been written. If it is a repeat it would be downgraded to a mastorate thesis which doesn't have to be original. I wanted to know what the whole range of authors wrote about the prophetic, but studying them does not mean that I agreed with them or adopted all their views. There were some who verged on the "spooky spiritual" and went into areas of the prophetic where I wouldn't dare to go.

Yes, LoL. But you only have to do a doctorate's thesis once. You have to maintain obedience to God every day of your life, LoL.

But it was good to see what they did and said, because it showed me what to avoid. It goes along with the Scripture, "In the multitude of counsellors there is safety." We don't have to comply with everyone who gives advice, spoken or written. Some things are written for us - for our learning, and others are written "to" us in the sense that we can put those things safely into practice.

This is a different day and age, Oscarr. Wisdom is NOT in the counsel of many today, so while this proverb may be true in principle, true wisdom dictates that our take on it now must be viewed in context of the times in which we live.

We have the choice to comply or not. The Shepherding Discipleship movement was the worst heresy involving inappropriate authority and it caused untold damage to the lives of vulnerable believers and caused major divisions in churches.

I fully agree. But even if I were to have attended such a service back in the day, I would have had little choice but to honor the authority there. Standing up in a pew and yelling "Heretic!" would have produced nothing resembling good fruit, LoL. Now if one were called of God to issue a direct warning under the Power and Anointing of God, then it would be acceptable, but I have seldom heard of such a thing occurring. Instead the Spirit expects those who are hearing His leading to leave an environment like that and not come back unless the Spirit of God specifically instructs them to.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hidden in Him said: Feel free to disagree if you like. I know there are a few good ones out there, but even if there were I think believers should devote themselves to being instructed by the Teacher God gave us, and ALWAYS view the teachings of the brethren with circumspection and a healthy suspicion until proven trustworthy.

Agreed. I always subject any prophecy or advice given to me by my 5 point test. You might have picked that up in our conference conversation involving heart2soul.

Ok, but now hold on. You actually posted an "agree" to the following words:
"New Testament prophecy will edify, exhort and comfort, 1 Corinthians 14:3 so, if the prophecy you hear does not build you up, encourage or calm you, it is not from God.

If it is a general prophecy to the whole meeting and it is not relevant to me, I would just ignore it. I wouldn't jump up and say it was not of God. If it is a personal one and does not pass my 5 point test, I would say "Thank you for sharing that with me" and then safely ignore it. I would adopt the attitude that the person shared it in faith and I would give them the benefit of the doubt - unless it was so blatantly in error and potentially damaging, then I would sit the person down and explain why I could not accept the prophetic word.

Old Testament prophets warned of failures, of sin and iniquity because the Old Covenant demanded the price be paid for breaking the Law and in the New Covenant, Jesus washed all our sins away and paid the price for us, Galatians 3:13-15. If someone prophesies over you, keep the above in mind and reject the "prophets" of today who speak doom and gloom into your life."

I suspect that you are still quoting me. I think that the Holy Spirit would be supportive of prophecies that show what God intends to do in the lives of people and of the world. But he is not remotely interested in what Satan intends to do, and therefore the Holy Spirit would not be behind a prophecy of that nature.

In other posts you seem to agree with these words as well, and yet I showed you plainly from scripture (through only one from among several passages I could have quoted you) where they were indeed prophesying destruction in the lives of New Testament believers who were walking in gross disobedience to God, and corrupting His church in the process.

Where are those passages? My view is that if there were professing Christians who were like that, they would no longer be genuine believers but those who have generally departed the faith. Scripture certainly does speak about those who have departed the faith and of sound doctrine and gathered to themselves teachers, tickling their ears, leading them astray. Church History confirms that when describing the Gnostics, Arians, and other heretical movements that split the Early Church.

I can understand not correcting words like this if you felt the person posting it would not receive correction, but agreeing with it suggests you're actually too SLOW to correct when necessary, and partly because you may actually sympathize with false teaching. This is what troubles me, and it's why I'm involved in this thread.

I am slow in giving correction because I am not a moderator on this forum therefore I don't have the authority. If I thought that a prophetic word on this forum was damaging, I would report it without hesitation. As the senior elder in my church, if someone got up and gave a shonky prophetic word, I will get up and say, "I think we can safety ignore that one", and get the person aside and explain why I took that action. But then, in my Presbyterian church, prophetic words are quite rare, so the occasion is not likely to arise. If I felt that the person prophesying was sincere in their faith, I would get up and say, "Lets just consider that prophetic word in the context of this 5 point test...etc." This would not directly attack the person and put them off giving prophetic words for the rest of their life, but would encourage the people to evaluate the prophecy to see whether it is relevant to them.

We have too many legalistic and harshly critical folk in our churches and if I distance myself from that type of stuff by adopting a much softer approach, then I think I am exercising gracious leadership.

Yes, LoL. But you only have to do a doctorate's thesis once. You have to maintain obedience to God every day of your life, LoL.

Agreed.

This is a different day and age, Oscarr. Wisdom is NOT in the counsel of many today, so while this proverb may be true in principle, true wisdom dictates that our take on it now must be viewed in context of the times in which we live.

I agree, and this is why we have to be very discriminating about whose counsel we take on board. Sometimes the people we look up to the most and admire are the ones who wouldn't do us any favours. Of course, the 5 point test applies to any counsel we receive, and if a counsellor or mentor consistently fails the test time after time, then we can rightly have doubts about that particular person and not include them in our Christmas list.

I fully agree. But even if I were to have attended such a service back in the day, I would have had little choice but to honor the authority there. Standing up in a pew and yelling "Heretic!" would have produced nothing resembling good fruit, LoL. Now if one were called of God to issue a direct warning under the Power and Anointing of God, then it would be acceptable, but I have seldom heard of such a thing occurring. Instead the Spirit expects those who are hearing His leading to leave an environment like that and not come back unless the Spirit of God specifically instructs them to.

I heard an account of one of my mentor pastors hearing a prophecy given by a large fellow "with a built-in microphone" give a long loud prophecy. The pastor jumped to his feet and cried out, "That's not of God!!" So it does happen when an experienced leader recognises a blatantly wrong prophecy from a guy who arrogantly thought that he was some sort of "prophet".

I will add that the Scripture says that we can correct a leader in public so that all will learn, but it has to be done with the support of two or three witnesses; but we are to deal with a fellow-member privately by going to him (or her) and pointing out the fault, and if that does not work, take someone else with you, and if that still does not work, then tell it to the church.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Hey guys!!! I put something in our conversation box....almost put it here but the Holy Spirit put a big Whoa on that and said move it.