Proper Christian Behavior Does Not Include

[catlover]

How can you be set free by the truth if you do not know it??

What "truth" that gay people are somehow beneath Christians? That is exactly what is being promoted, here.

 

[catlover]

If you did something wrong to me I'm not aware of it.. Perhaps if you confessed it, and made me aware of your personal offense, I could forgive it even as Eph 4:32 says. I'm ready when you are. I'll give you a clue -- I ask for an apology when I've been personally offended, but I appreciate your concern for my sensitivities.

Now I shared the words of Christ that say you must be born again. Why don't you believe His words?

Being born again is a concept that came about from mass literacy, it has nothing to do with "truth"...

I do not see what that has to do with the idea that it is somehow "Christlike" to spread white supremacist propaganda about gays and lesbians...you allow stereotypes and lies to pepper your posts and you say they are "of Christ". They are most certainly not.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Trying to save people from hell is "hate." We don't want anyone to go to a terrible place called hell, and that is "hate." Ironical isn't it?

Does anyone on the gay side of the debate even acknowledge that hell is an issue?

So when the fireman comes to rescue people they think he "hates them." Beats anything I've ever heard.

You know savedandhappy, it's further evidence of a seared conscience that is no longer capable of moral perception. All that's left is scar tissue in the morality part of the brain. That part of the brain no longer functions. It's just about hopeless really.

In the link, you can read where pagans offered their firstborn as an infant sacrifice with a clear conscience.

I can honestly say that I didn't believe the major deceiving that the Bible says will come.......... would happen till after the church was removed, and so I daily am shocked at the many who no longer understand or believe the Word of God.

I can't at this time believe that it is totally hopeless, because as long as I have breath then I will continue to lift all up to the Lord asking that all hearts will be soften to the truth, love and salvation of the Lord.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Clearly you missed this passage....maybe you need to have it posted near your bathroom mirror.

"And be ye kind one to another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
Ephesians 4:32

Sorry, but I am alittle confused about the meaning of your post above.

Do you believe we are to forgive who. To my knowledge, if you are speaking of those who don't believe homosexuality is a sin, they haven't done anything that I need to forgive them for. So this makes me alittle confused.

Now if I look at the other part of that verse I see be kind and tender-hearted, and then I would have to say that being kind to someone is hoping and praying that they will not spend eternity in hell, separated from God. Then looking at tender-hearted, well that would be not letting my heart get hard and unloving to those who call me a hater, bigot, etc., but just give all that to the Lord. If He could be beaten, spit on, crucified, then I can continue to tell of His love, grace and mercy.

What is your understanding of the word kind and tender-hearted?

 

[catlover]

What is your understanding of the word kind and tender-hearted?

Tender-hearted loving-it certainly doesn't include white supremicist propoganda.

 

[jamielindas]

Here is Christ's message

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

No born again, no heaven -- that's what Jesus said. Nothing else really matters.

So as long as you're born again AND gay, it's all good then... nice!

 

[catlover]

....

 

[jamielindas]

So as long as you're born again AND gay, it's all good then... nice!

somehow I'm sure that's not what he really intended to say though...

anyone want to back this one up or refute?

 

[catlover]

So as long as you're born again AND gay, it's all good then... nice!

Sounds okay to me...

 

[savedandhappy1]

Tender-hearted loving-it certainly doesn't include white supremicist propoganda.

Not sure where the white supremicixt propoganda comes in, must have missed that post.

Still not sure what you believe the Bibles means by tender-hearted, and loving tho?

Is it tender-hearted and loving to not try to add more souls to the Kingdom of God, because we might offend them?

To me it would be offending and would really cause me to question someones true commitment to the Lord if they were more worried about offending me then they were about saving my soul.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

somehow I'm sure that's not what he really intended to say though...

anyone want to back this one up or refute?

I recommend it!

 

[BigBadWlf]

Being born again is a concept that came about from mass literacy, it has nothing to do with "truth"...

I do not see what that has to do with the idea that it is somehow "Christlike" to spread white supremacist propaganda about gays and lesbians...you allow stereotypes and lies to pepper your posts and you say they are "of Christ". They are most certainly not.

RFT

 

[BigBadWlf]

Not sure where the white supremicixt propoganda comes in, must have missed that post.

Still not sure what you believe the Bibles means by tender-hearted, and loving tho?

Is it tender-hearted and loving to not try to add more souls to the Kingdom of God, because we might offend them?

To me it would be offending and would really cause me to question someones true commitment to the Lord if they were more worried about offending me then they were about saving my soul.

I think it has to do with the content of the un-true anti-gay arguments – they are indistinguishable form the argument (and false witness) used to justify racism

 

[Ohioprof]

Trying to save people from hell is "hate." We don't want anyone to go to a terrible place called hell, and that is "hate." Ironical isn't it?

Does anyone on the gay side of the debate even acknowledge that hell is an issue?

So when the fireman comes to rescue people they think he "hates them." Beats anything I've ever heard.

You know savedandhappy, it's further evidence of a seared conscience that is no longer capable of moral perception. All that's left is scar tissue in the morality part of the brain. That part of the brain no longer functions. It's just about hopeless really.

In the link, you can read where pagans offered their firstborn as an infant sacrifice with a clear conscience.

There is no "gay side of the debate." There are only different points of view. And no, hell is not an issue for me. The only issue for me is winning equal rights under the law for gay people, including the right to marry our spouses legally and civilly. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Ohioprof]

I can honestly say that I didn't believe the major deceiving that the Bible says will come.......... would happen till after the church was removed, and so I daily am shocked at the many who no longer understand or believe the Word of God.

I can't at this time believe that it is totally hopeless, because as long as I have breath then I will continue to lift all up to the Lord asking that all hearts will be soften to the truth, love and salvation of the Lord.

I think people simply understand the Bible in different ways. Some Christians, including me, do not see the Bible as rule book, nor do we see the Bible as infallible. We see the Bible as a guide book, and its message as a broad message of the love of Jesus. If you read what Jesus actually said, then you see that the Bible does not call for Christians to judge or berate gay people or to demand that gay people somehow stop being ourselves. We are gay because God made us that way, and I have no doubt that God loves gay people just as we are. Loving our spouses and our families is not a sin. It's an expression of the love of God.

I think the proper way for heterosexual Christians to behave toward gay people is simply to accept gay people as we are and to stop trying to convince gay people to become heterosexual, which is impossible anyway.

 

[Ohioprof]

Sorry, but I am alittle confused about the meaning of your post above.

Do you believe we are to forgive who. To my knowledge, if you are speaking of those who don't believe homosexuality is a sin, they haven't done anything that I need to forgive them for. So this makes me alittle confused.

Now if I look at the other part of that verse I see be kind and tender-hearted, and then I would have to say that being kind to someone is hoping and praying that they will not spend eternity in hell, separated from God. Then looking at tender-hearted, well that would be not letting my heart get hard and unloving to those who call me a hater, bigot, etc., but just give all that to the Lord. If He could be beaten, spit on, crucified, then I can continue to tell of His love, grace and mercy.

What is your understanding of the word kind and tender-hearted?

You don't seem like a hater to me. You seem like a caring person who simply has the wrong ideas about gay people. As for bigot....that's an ugly word, and I never use it to label people. But if someone were to accuse me of bigotry, I would look at my own behavior and attitudes to see if there were some truth in the accusation. I would examine my own attitudes to see if I might harbor prejudice against some other people that I was not aware of. For a time, I harbored prejudice against transgender people, and I was not aware of it. Then someone called me on it, and I was pressed to reconsider my beliefs and my attitudes, and I realized that my accuser was right. That realization about myself freed me to change, to come to accept transgender people as they are.

I think it's a mistake to think that one is being "persecuted" as Jesus was when one is challenged for alleged bigotry or prejudice. What the accuser says just might be true. It was true in my case; I harbored prejudice against transgender people. Looking honestly at one's own prejudice is not easy to do, especially if the person challenging you uses an ugly word like "bigot." But it is usually a valuable thing to look at one's own behavior and beliefs and consider whether or not they reflect own's own prejudice. It can bring growth. It did for me.

 

[catlover]

Not sure where the white supremicixt propoganda comes in, must have missed that post.

Still not sure what you believe the Bibles means by tender-hearted, and loving tho?

Is it tender-hearted and loving to not try to add more souls to the Kingdom of God, because we might offend them?

To me it would be offending and would really cause me to question someones true commitment to the Lord if they were more worried about offending me then they were about saving my soul.

Maybe you are unaware of the impact on gays and lesbians lives when people attempt to blame them for disease or societies' ills...it's sort of like blaming African Americans for the, alleged, downfall of our society.

You honestly think it's okay to claim gays and lesbians spread diseases and cause society to function badly?

 

[jamielindas]

Maybe you are unaware of the impact on gays and lesbians lives when people attempt to blame them for disease or societies' ills...it's sort of like blaming African Americans for the, alleged, downfall of our society.

You honestly think it's okay to claim gays and lesbians spread diseases and cause society to function badly?

It is absolutely horrible, the things that some christians say about gays and lesbians. Though they seem to direct it more at gay and bisexual men than lesbians, but the ladies get their share as well.
(fundamentalists mostly, not all christians are this way. A shout out to my christian friends on this forum!)

One only need to look as far as Felps' god hates [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] web site to see the kind of vitriol we have directed at us.

[begin sarcasm]
I, for one, really enjoy being held responsible for the corruption of society. The idea that my marrying someone I love is going to ruin marriage and family across the country gives new meaning to my love. I especially like when my people get blamed for natural disasters like Katrina or the Tsunami. I can only conclude that being gay is some kind of superpower, allowing me to control nature... which is kinda awesome!
[end sarcasm]

It is unfortunate for all of us that the media spends the most time covering the loudest and most obnoxious of any group. Christians end up getting represented by nuts jobs like Felps or some crazy Reverend. The gays end up being represented by some half naked homo in a feather boa gyrating on a parade float while a drag queen lip syncs to I Will Survive. Neither of these is a accurate representation of the sub cultures as a whole.

I know there are wonderful loving and accepting christians out there who take the time to understand Christ's philosophy of love, acceptance, tolerance and non-violence not just parrot the series of admonishments for behavior that may have been detrimental to a bronze age oppressed minority.
This is the 21st century people. If you want your religion to survive, you have to utilize the philosophy and meaning, not just the text. The harder you hold on to outdated fears and admonishments that no longer fit with the current social zeitgeist, the more the secular community (and government) will push back on your religion.

 

[savedandhappy1]

I think people simply understand the Bible in different ways. Some Christians, including me, do not see the Bible as rule book, nor do we see the Bible as infallible. We see the Bible as a guide book, and its message as a broad message of the love of Jesus. If you read what Jesus actually said, then you see that the Bible does not call for Christians to judge or berate gay people or to demand that gay people somehow stop being ourselves. We are gay because God made us that way, and I have no doubt that God loves gay people just as we are. Loving our spouses and our families is not a sin. It's an expression of the love of God.

Yes, God loves everyone the Bible makes that clear, but it also makes clear what will happen to those who don't follow the rules/laws that God has given us.

Are laws and rules the same, because we are told that He will put His laws in our hearts and minds?

Heb. 10:11-18
11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,
13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool.
14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”
17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

Heb 10:26-31
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The LORD will judge His people.”
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I think the proper way for heterosexual Christians to behave toward gay people is simply to accept gay people as we are and to stop trying to convince gay people to become heterosexual, which is impossible anyway.

No scriptural backing for the above scenerio, we are to accept the person not the sinful acts, and we are plainly told how we are to treat the unrighteous and the backsliden righteous.

I have said it more then once in posts, but it bears repeating, we need to define what the meaning of love is according to the scriptures. There is no examples in scriptures where Jesus said to go and sin some more. Yes, He loves us all dearly, but He does sit down things that must happen to receive His grace and mercy.

We can't change ourselves, but the scriptures tell us how He will make us a NEW CREATURE, and give us a NEW HEART. We can't save ourselves or change ourselves, but PRAISE THE LORD, He can and this is told us many times in the Bible.

I posted on another thread the findings from old manuscripts of the NT, which plainly show how they have not been changed to fit some agenda or prejudice. I know that alot here will not accept those findings, but I mention for those who are still seeking the truth.

 

[savedandhappy1]

You don't seem like a hater to me. You seem like a caring person who simply has the wrong ideas about gay people. As for bigot....that's an ugly word, and I never use it to label people. But if someone were to accuse me of bigotry, I would look at my own behavior and attitudes to see if there were some truth in the accusation. I would examine my own attitudes to see if I might harbor prejudice against some other people that I was not aware of. For a time, I harbored prejudice against transgender people, and I was not aware of it. Then someone called me on it, and I was pressed to reconsider my beliefs and my attitudes, and I realized that my accuser was right. That realization about myself freed me to change, to come to accept transgender people as they are.

What wrong idea do you believe I have about gay people?

Oh, thank you for realizing that I don't hate you are anyone else.

So if you examine yourself and still see that you aren't a bigot then what?

I think it's a mistake to think that one is being "persecuted" as Jesus was when one is challenged for alleged bigotry or prejudice. What the accuser says just might be true. It was true in my case; I harbored prejudice against transgender people. Looking honestly at one's own prejudice is not easy to do, especially if the person challenging you uses an ugly word like "bigot." But it is usually a valuable thing to look at one's own behavior and beliefs and consider whether or not they reflect own's own prejudice. It can bring growth. It did for me.

[/QUOTE]

Hummmmmmmmm, I don't believe I have ever said that I felt "persecuted" as Jesus was, and if I gave that impression then I would like to clear that misunderstanding up right now.

I will agree that one must continually look at themselves before looking at others, the Bible makes that very clear, and the reasons for that self examination are clear also. I will also agree that if during your self examination the Lord shows you some bigotry, hate, etc. that it will lead to growth in the Lord.

I still wonder what you feel a person should do if after their examination they find no hate or bigotry?