Proof the Earth is Flat

[JacksBratt]

I never came across an angry flat earther either. But I have come across a general attitude of feeling the need to 'educate' those of us who accept a spherical earth based on evidence as if we're all indoctrinated and are unable to assess it for ourselves. We are told if only we would look for ourselves, then we would see it. But time and time again, the evidence points to a spherical earth. Videos are produced with claimed evidence for a flat earth which inevitably fall down when examined closely.

That's what is really great about this sight.. we can look at evidence and come to a belief.. and others will accept us despite whether they agree or disagree.

I do actually find the subject fascinating myself and it has given me great interest in my surroundings. The evidence I see very clearly is for a spherical earth. I also know a Bible believing Christian who is an avid amateur astronomer. He believes emphatically in six literal days of creation but has seen much evidence for a spherical earth in the sky, which he never stops watching with enthusiasm (maybe even obsession!). He sees no contradiction in a spherical earth and the Bible.

A lot of FE'ers believe that most globe believers "clearly see" a spherical earth.. due to the simple fact that we have cognitive dissonance... basically.. we have seen the globe model since before we were in school.

Are you saying that you don't believe, emphatically, in the six literal days of creation?

I don't believe the earth is floating around aimlessly in space. i see God as designing and in control of a universe so big that the human mind cannot comprehend its enormity or complexity. In this universe, the earth is created by Him for His purposes. I see no reason for it to be at the centre of a small simple universe and I see no evidence for it either.

Isn't it great to be rightfully capable of holding your own beliefs, without being condescended?

 

[Phil G]

That's what is really great about this sight.. we can look at evidence and come to a belief.. and others will accept us despite whether they agree or disagree.



A lot of FE'ers believe that most globe believers "clearly see" a spherical earth.. due to the simple fact that we have cognitive dissonance... basically.. we have seen the globe model since before we were in school.

Are you saying that you don't believe, emphatically, in the six literal days of creation?



Isn't it great to be rightfully capable of holding your own beliefs, without being condescended?

I can certainly agree to disagree. My own research and observation leads me to the conclusion the earth is spherical. I find the flat earth evidence to be often, shall I say, manipulated. It is out of kilter with the evidence I see. But if some want to believe, so be it. I just don't find their evidence to be in the least bit convincing.

I don't accept the 'cognitive dissonance' reasoning because it assumes we do not reassess the evidence and question our beliefs. Most Christians I know do this almost on a daily basis by seeking to learn about our wonderful creator God.

I do believe in the six literal days of creation as does my amateur astronomer buddy. I only mentioned him because he has such an enthusiastic interest in the sky and has travelled the world with express purpose of studying it. His enthusiasm is only excelled by his faith in the Lord and what He has written in His Word.

I enjoy God's creation, especially in the beautiful things which we can take so much for granted (and I have in the past)!

 

[SPF]

I wonder what FE proponents will say once supersonic commercial travel is reinstated. You can find photos that people took who flew on the Concorde and see the curvature of the earth. I have yet to come across someone who flew on the Concorde denying that there was a curve.

 

[SeventyOne]

I wonder what FE proponents will say once supersonic commercial travel is reinstated. You can find photos that people took who flew on the Concorde and see the curvature of the earth. I have yet to come across someone who flew on the Concorde denying that there was a curve.

Probably something like the obvious issue of those windows manufactured with a slight bowing, just like currently on commercial aircraft, causing the appearance of curvature. But I'm sure that observation would just be immediately rejected.

 

[Phil G]

Probably something like the obvious issue of those windows manufactured with a slight bowing, just like currently on commercial aircraft, causing the appearance of curvature. But I'm sure that observation would just be immediately rejected.

Of course, there's always a reason for the earth looking spherical. But when it looks flat then it's called 'proof'.

 

[SPF]

Probably something like the obvious issue of those windows manufactured with a slight bowing, just like currently on commercial aircraft, causing the appearance of curvature. But I'm sure that observation would just be immediately rejected.

I'm sure all the civilians who have been able to go up in a U2 spy plane and saw the curve were also duped by the curve inducing manufactured trickery glass.

 

[d taylor]

From this article
The Concorde: Faster Than Sound
We're flying above 50,000 feet now, almost 10 miles high. At this altitude you're supposed to be able to discern the curvature of the earth, but for whatever reason, it's not apparent.

 

[Phil G]

From this article
The Concorde: Faster Than Sound
We're flying above 50,000 feet now, almost 10 miles high. At this altitude you're supposed to be able to discern the curvature of the earth, but for whatever reason, it's not apparent.

From this article:

Seeing the Curvature of the Earth - Plane & Pilot Magazine


‘…suffice it to say that the curvature of the earth is slightly visible at airliner altitudes but quite clearly visible from 10,000 feet higher. At 51,000 feet, the highest ceiling of any production airplane, it’s quite easy to see, especially if you’re in the pilot’s seat and are afforded a field of view of 300 degrees or so.’ (Emphases mine)

And:

‘The experience of cruising along at 51,000 and seeing the earth visibly curved and farther below than I’d ever seen it before gave me a taste of what it might be like to be in space.’ (Emphasis mine)

 

[d taylor]

They are at this again, first in 2016 now again 2020

 

[JacksBratt]

Of course, there's always a reason for the earth looking spherical. But when it looks flat then it's called 'proof'.

There is one thing that nobody can ignore.. And.. I am not a FE'er.. However, this one fact, that has been observed and presented time and time again.. even recorded in older books..

WE........ See....... too....... far.....

Many time and many examples are proof... We can see things that are very far away.. and they should be well beyond and below the curve of the earth.

Simple math... shows that the earth should drop away at a rate of 8 inches down every mile you travel or looking out..

To be clear.. on a curve.. that works out to 8 inches times the mileage ... squared.

So for 10 miles that's 100 x 8 inches... which is 66 feet. At 15 miles.. it is 150 feet.. across a body of water.. like Lake Michigan or Lake Ontario ... or an ocean... 40 miles is a drop of 1066.6 feet.

However, photographers have shown that this is just not the case....

It's not a hoax.. It's a fact... Even on long lakes people have done laser beam experiments.

Proof that it is true was the absolutely pathetic and clumsily edited History Channel's attempt to debunk it.. which just made the case even stronger..

I cannot even find this video anymore.. that's how bad it was.

 

[JacksBratt]

I'm sure all the civilians who have been able to go up in a U2 spy plane and saw the curve were also duped by the curve inducing manufactured trickery glass.

What's even better is the "Myth Buster" facade...

You know.. the one where they go to extremely high altitude to show the curve..

but.. by mistake.. with the "fish eye go pro they took from their 10 year old (Om'gosh how's he going to video his skateboard fails) they show a curved horizon.. while still on the ground...

Who's busted?

 

[Phil G]

There is one thing that nobody can ignore.. And.. I am not a FE'er.. However, this one fact, that has been observed and presented time and time again.. even recorded in older books..

WE........ See....... too....... far.....

Many time and many examples are proof... We can see things that are very far away.. and they should be well beyond and below the curve of the earth.

Simple math... shows that the earth should drop away at a rate of 8 inches down every mile you travel or looking out..

To be clear.. on a curve.. that works out to 8 inches times the mileage ... squared.

So for 10 miles that's 100 x 8 inches... which is 66 feet. At 15 miles.. it is 150 feet.. across a body of water.. like Lake Michigan or Lake Ontario ... or an ocean... 40 miles is a drop of 1066.6 feet.

However, photographers have shown that this is just not the case....

It's not a hoax.. It's a fact... Even on long lakes people have done laser beam experiments.

Proof that it is true was the absolutely pathetic and clumsily edited History Channel's attempt to debunk it.. which just made the case even stronger..

I cannot even find this video anymore.. that's how bad it was.

The formula for measuring how far an object can be seen at sea level is not 8 inches per mile but the square root of the height in feet of the object multiplied by 1.17 added to the square root of the eye height in feet of the observer multiplied by 1.17 giving an answer in nautical miles.

This formula can be verified at these websites:

How to Calculate the Distance to the Horizon - Boat Safe

Visible Distance

How far is the horizon ?

Lighted Aids to Navigation-Major and Minor Lights & Visible Ranges

eOceanic - A list of useful conversions and formula

Gary's Nautical Information: GEOGRAPHIC RANGE AND LUMINOUS RANGE

http://www.bluewater.org/FileStorage/Lighthouse Tour June 14 2013.pdf

8 inches per mile or even 8 inches per mile squared does not take into account both the eye height and object height above sea level, nor does it take into account atmospheric refraction.

As for seeing too far, below are two photos I took of the same island (Lambay Island off the east coast of Ireland), both taken at a distance of about 21 miles according to Google Earth. The first is from about 20 feet above sea level and the second from about 190 feet above sea level. The photo taken from the higher elevation reveals more of the island meaning the horizon is obscuring parts of the island at the lower elevation. This evidence can be seen on any day the weather permits the island to be seen from where I took the photos and it can only happen with such consistency if the earth is spherical.

 

[SPF]

They are at this again, first in 2016 now again 2020

So if they do it, and we see the curve, what will you say then?

What's even better is the "Myth Buster" facade...

You know.. the one where they go to extremely high altitude to show the curve..

but.. by mistake.. with the "fish eye go pro they took from their 10 year old (Om'gosh how's he going to video his skateboard fails) they show a curved horizon.. while still on the ground...

Who's busted?

So your position is that Adam Savage, a civilian, tv host, is in on the FE conspiracy and is out to lie to people? Because he said he saw the curve while up in the plane. So either he did see the curve, or he was brought into the great deception and convinced that he needed to continue the lie.

Why again we need to keep perpetuating this lie is actually still unknown. But for whatever the unknown reason is, he bought into it?

And he's of course not the only civilian to go up in a U2 spy plane. James May, from the popular Top Gear car show had the opportunity to go up, and he saw the curve too.

So again, for some reason unbeknownst to any of us, he was chosen to be brought into the conspiracy and decided that he needed to lie about seeing the curve as well. Why again?

And let's be clear here JB. For someone who isn't a proponent for the FE, you're about the strongest defender of the view on this forum.

 

[SPF]

WE........ See....... too....... far.....

You cannot see Kawaikini from the peak of Mauna Kea.

Mauna Kea, the highest peak in Hawaii (the summit of the Big Island), offers incredible views. With nothing but the ocean around it, and a few other nearby islands, you should be able to see extremely far away. The island of Kauai has the seventh highest point in the Hawaiian islands: the peak known as Kawaikini. If you were to draw a straight line from Mauna Kea (elevation: 13,796 ft.) to Kawaikini (elevation: 5226 ft.) it would span a distance of 303 miles.

However, you cannot see one from the other, which you would absolutely be able to do if the Earth were flat. With a curved Earth of its measured radius, the line-of-sight limit for those two elevations caps out at 233 miles. Only with a curved Earth is one invisible from the other, and this is true for any two mountain peaks with clear line-of-sights from one to the other.

Source:
Five Impossible Facts That Would Have To Be True If The Earth Were Flat

 

[SPF]

Simple math... shows that the earth should drop away at a rate of 8 inches down every mile you travel or looking out..

To be clear.. on a curve.. that works out to 8 inches times the mileage ... squared.

So for 10 miles that's 100 x 8 inches... which is 66 feet. At 15 miles.. it is 150 feet.. across a body of water.. like Lake Michigan or Lake Ontario ... or an ocean... 40 miles is a drop of 1066.6 feet.

Point 2 in the above video should speak to you on this one.

 

[Phil G]

And let's be clear here JB. For someone who isn't a proponent for the FE, you're about the strongest defender of the view on this forum.

I think JB's been busted!

 

[SeventyOne]

I'm sure all the civilians who have been able to go up in a U2 spy plane and saw the curve were also duped by the curve inducing manufactured trickery glass.

Actually, yes, that is the case. Except it's not 'trickery' glass. They are just too stupid to understand what they are looking at.

 

[SeventyOne]

Point 2 in the above video should speak to you on this one.

Here you go. I made a whole thread about a group that debunked every point the 'Professor' made in his silly little video.

Responses to Flat Earth Challenges

 

[JacksBratt]

The formula for measuring how far an object can be seen at sea level is not 8 inches per mile but the square root of the height in feet of the object multiplied by 1.17 added to the square root of the eye height in feet of the observer multiplied by 1.17 giving an answer in nautical miles.

This formula can be verified at these websites:

How to Calculate the Distance to the Horizon - Boat Safe

Visible Distance

How far is the horizon ?

Lighted Aids to Navigation-Major and Minor Lights & Visible Ranges

eOceanic - A list of useful conversions and formula

Gary's Nautical Information: GEOGRAPHIC RANGE AND LUMINOUS RANGE

http://www.bluewater.org/FileStorage/Lighthouse Tour June 14 2013.pdf

8 inches per mile or even 8 inches per mile squared does not take into account both the eye height and object height above sea level, nor does it take into account atmospheric refraction.

As for seeing too far, below are two photos I took of the same island (Lambay Island off the east coast of Ireland), both taken at a distance of about 21 miles according to Google Earth. The first is from about 20 feet above sea level and the second from about 190 feet above sea level. The photo taken from the higher elevation reveals more of the island meaning the horizon is obscuring parts of the island at the lower elevation. This evidence can be seen on any day the weather permits the island to be seen from where I took the photos and it can only happen with such consistency if the earth is spherical.

I don't doubt that you are correct... What I am saying is that the earths curve is 8 inches for every mile of surface...

And, having that fact to go by.. there are objects that should be well beyond the curve... yet are clearly visible.

I'm not here to argue those two absolutes.. The rate of curve... or that objects are regularly and consistently in view when they should never be.

There are too many websites and too many examples taken by many people.. to dispute either one of those.

 

[SeventyOne]

Of course, there's always a reason for the earth looking spherical. But when it looks flat then it's called 'proof'.

Like I said, immediately rejected. So typical.