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Proof that the ESV, NIV, NASB are Vatican Versions

timewerx

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No such animal exists and not one of you can SHOW us a complete, inspired and 100% true words of God Bible if your life depended on it.

You can have it directly from the Spirit of Truth in John 16:13.

But of course, who would believe a person who speaks the Words of God directly from what he or she learned from the Spirit of Truth without quoting verses from the Bible?

If it's hard, perhaps, be the servant of all, seek lowly/weak positions, be humble, they probably won't believe it. If it says, God wants you to be rich or God will make you rich, most people will probably believe it.
 
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brandplucked

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Originally Posted by brandplucked
No such animal exists and not one of you can SHOW us a complete, inspired and 100% true words of God Bible if your life depended on it.


You can have it directly from the Spirit of Truth in John 16:13.

But of course, who would believe a person who speaks the Words of God directly from what he or she learned from the Spirit of Truth without quoting verses from the Bible?

If it's hard, perhaps, be the servant of all, seek lowly/weak positions, be humble, they probably won't believe it. If it says, God wants you to be rich or God will make you rich, most people will probably believe it.

Hi time. You, my friend, are off into the cloudland of mysticism.

I wrote an article about this type of personal mysticism. It's called "No Bible is my final authority. God is!"

No Bible authority;Godis - Another King James Bible Believer

"To the law and to the testimony: If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20
 
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ViaCrucis

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He didn't refer to Himself as son of man, it's an error in the translation.

Here's a random selection of quotes taken directly from the Greek text, specifically the TR.

καὶ λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς Αἱ ἀλώπεκες φωλεοὺς ἔχουσιν καὶ τὰ πετεινὰ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ κατασκηνώσεις ὁ δὲ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου οὐκ ἔχει ποῦ τὴν κεφαλὴν κλίνῃ - Matthew 8:20

ἵνα δὲ εἰδῆτε ὅτι ἐξουσίαν ἔχει ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ἀφιέναι ἁμαρτίας τότε λέγει τῷ παραλυτικῷ Ἐγερθεὶς ἆρόν σου τὴν κλίνην καὶ ὕπαγε εἰς τὸν οἶκόν σου - Matthew 9:6

ἦλθεν ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐσθίων καὶ πίνων καὶ λέγουσιν Ἰδού, ἄνθρωπος φάγος καὶ οἰνοπότης τελωνῶν φίλος καὶ ἁμαρτωλῶν καὶ ἐδικαιώθη ἡ σοφία ἀπὸ τῶν τέκνων αὐτῆς - Matthew 11:19

καὶ τότε ὄψονται τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν νεφέλαις μετὰ δυνάμεως πολλῆς καὶ δόξης - Mark 13:26

ἀπὸ τοῦ νῦν ἔσται ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου καθήμενος ἐκ δεξιῶν τῆς δυνάμεως τοῦ θεοῦ - Luke 22:69

καὶ καθὼς Μωσῆς ὕψωσεν τὸν ὄφιν ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ οὕτως ὑψωθῆναι δεῖ τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου - John 3:14

It's not an error of translation, it's what the Evangelists actually wrote as Jesus saying.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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brandplucked

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Here's a random selection of quotes taken directly from the Greek text, specifically the TR.

καὶ λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς Αἱ ἀλώπεκες φωλεοὺς ἔχουσιν καὶ τὰ πετεινὰ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ κατασκηνώσεις ὁ δὲ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου οὐκ ἔχει ποῦ τὴν κεφαλὴν κλίνῃ - Matthew 8:20

ἵνα δὲ εἰδῆτε ὅτι ἐξουσίαν ἔχει ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ἀφιέναι ἁμαρτίας τότε λέγει τῷ παραλυτικῷ Ἐγερθεὶς ἆρόν σου τὴν κλίνην καὶ ὕπαγε εἰς τὸν οἶκόν σου - Matthew 9:6

ἦλθεν ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐσθίων καὶ πίνων καὶ λέγουσιν Ἰδού, ἄνθρωπος φάγος καὶ οἰνοπότης τελωνῶν φίλος καὶ ἁμαρτωλῶν καὶ ἐδικαιώθη ἡ σοφία ἀπὸ τῶν τέκνων αὐτῆς - Matthew 11:19

καὶ τότε ὄψονται τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν νεφέλαις μετὰ δυνάμεως πολλῆς καὶ δόξης - Mark 13:26

ἀπὸ τοῦ νῦν ἔσται ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου καθήμενος ἐκ δεξιῶν τῆς δυνάμεως τοῦ θεοῦ - Luke 22:69

καὶ καθὼς Μωσῆς ὕψωσεν τὸν ὄφιν ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ οὕτως ὑψωθῆναι δεῖ τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου - John 3:14

It's not an error of translation, it's what the Evangelists actually wrote as Jesus saying.

-CryptoLutheran


You are correct. It's just basic Greek.
 
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SalvationAtYourFingertips

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Here's the thing though, that's the oldest greek we have. The only problem is, all the original scriptures were in Hebrew and those are lost. Now, that means that no where can you find what God wrote originally. You cannot have the perfect original work, all we have are translations and copies that have flaws. Your only hope for understanding the true intent behind what the author wanted to write is to know the author.
 
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timewerx

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Here's the thing though, that's the oldest greek we have. The only problem is, all the original scriptures were in Hebrew and those are lost. Now, that means that no where can you find what God wrote originally. You cannot have the perfect original work, all we have are translations and copies that have flaws. Your only hope for understanding the true intent behind what the author wanted to write is to know the author.

Here's another problem, even in the original Greek epistles, there existed a divide between the early followers of the original Apostles led by James and Peter, vs the followers of Apostle Paul. Paul was often accused of being a false apostle or a false prophet by those who followed the original apostles. That you'll find if you do some research into early Christianity.

There's a division between the early "Torah Christians" (Jesus came to fulfill the laws) vs "Pauline Christians" (Cursed is anyone under the law).
 
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brandplucked

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Here's the thing though, that's the oldest greek we have. The only problem is, all the original scriptures were in Hebrew and those are lost. Now, that means that no where can you find what God wrote originally. You cannot have the perfect original work, all we have are translations and copies that have flaws. Your only hope for understanding the true intent behind what the author wanted to write is to know the author.


Hi Salvation. Spoken like a true bible agnostic who does not know for sure what God inspired because you don't believe He has acted in history in such a way as to give us His complete and infallible words in "the book of the LORD" (Isaiah 34:16)

You are leaving the sovereignty of God completely out of the picture and the result is that you do not have nor believe in the existence of an infallible Bible.

All the evidence points to the King James Bible as being that infallible Book and the Bible tells us that God Himself will send a famine of hearing His words and that there will come a falling away from the faith before the return of Christ. (Amos 8:11-12 and 2 Thes. 2)

You can know nothing about the true God apart from His infallible Book, and there are several serious doctrinal errors found in the modern Vatican Versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB and the corrupt NKJV as well.

Fake Bible Versions DO teach and pervert several biblical doctrines, and the infallibility of the Bible (any bible in any language) is a huge doctrine that most Christians do not believe anymore.



Here are just a few of the perverted doctrines.

#1. Can God be deceived? The NASB says that the children of Israel deceived God. Not just "tried to deceive" or "thought they had deceived" but deceived Him.

Eze14:9; Ps 78:36deceive - Another King James Bible Believer

#2. Did the Son of God have an "origin from ancient times" or "his goings forth are from everlasting"? Did He have a beginning or is He eternal?

Micah 5:2,Heb2:11 origin - Another King James Bible Believer

#3. Who controls the world, God or Satan?

Several modern fake bibles teach it is Satan -

Satan or God controls? - Another King James Bible Believer

#4. Is your righteousness before God the fine linen of the righteousness of Christ, or your "righteous deeds" as several fake bibles and the modern Catholic versions teach?

Satan or God controls? - Another King James Bible Believer

#5.Can man "speed up" the coming of the day of God's judgment, or is it already marked by God on the calendar to the day and month?

2Peter3:12hastingunto - Another King James Bible Believer

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8
 
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SalvationAtYourFingertips

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But you are wrong when you say that you can know nothing of God without his Book. Think of people coming to Christ. Some of them have never even read the Bible before hearing the Good news. You are the one who is taking God's sovereignty out of the picture, in that you believe that people can permanently distort His word. If God spoke it, the Truth will come out to those who have ears to hear. By the way, I typed out the ears to hear sentence I just wrote before I saw you put it at the bottom. God is funny.
 
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PaladinValer

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Listening to two psuedohistories debate is certainly entertaining...

Here's the thing though, that's the oldest greek we have. The only problem is, all the original scriptures were in Hebrew and those are lost. Now, that means that no where can you find what God wrote originally. You cannot have the perfect original work, all we have are translations and copies that have flaws. Your only hope for understanding the true intent behind what the author wanted to write is to know the author.

Wrong. The original NT texts are all in Greek. Furthermore, God Himself wrote nothing; it was the word of pious humans who wrote the Holy Writ.

Here's another problem, even in the original Greek epistles, there existed a divide between the early followers of the original Apostles led by James and Peter, vs the followers of Apostle Paul. Paul was often accused of being a false apostle or a false prophet by those who followed the original apostles. That you'll find if you do some research into early Christianity.

There's a division between the early "Torah Christians" (Jesus came to fulfill the laws) vs "Pauline Christians" (Cursed is anyone under the law).

Um, what? First of all, False Dichotomy and lastly, there is no such thing as a "Torah" or "Pauline" Christian. There is only Christian and those heretical groups that claim to be Christian.

Hi Salvation. Spoken like a true bible agnostic who does not know for sure what God inspired because you don't believe He has acted in history in such a way as to give us His complete and infallible words in "the book of the LORD" (Isaiah 34:16)

You are leaving the sovereignty of God completely out of the picture and the result is that you do not have nor believe in the existence of an infallible Bible.

All the evidence points to the King James Bible as being that infallible Book and the Bible tells us that God Himself will send a famine of hearing His words and that there will come a falling away from the faith before the return of Christ. (Amos 8:11-12 and 2 Thes. 2)

All false . The idea of modern infallibility is a psuedohistoric reactionary (in other words, attempting to reclaim a past that never existed) movement that began late in the recorded history of Christian belief.

The historically proven concept of Biblical infallibility is this: that the Holy Bible is inspired and inerrant in all matters of faith, doctrine, salvation, and morals, period. Nothing else and nothing more.

It is long-proven that most "textual subtractions" are in fact returns to what the actual texts had, removing accidental additions and scribe's notes or even commentations...and in the infamous addition to 1st St. John 5:7, relying on a lie.

The KJV is barely readable even at the time, coined brand new English, and wasn't even the English used for the times. Today, it is proven to be archaic and those who say they can read it are all non-KJV-Os who fundamentally disagree with such unorthodox theology.

The fact that my own Anglican Church, the church whose auspices the KJV was written under, finds the whole thing absurd and fundamentally disagrees with the theology that the KJV-Os arrive at should make all immediately suspect.

There is no such thing as orthodox Christianity alongside KJV-Oism. None.
 
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brandplucked

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But you are wrong when you say that you can know nothing of God without his Book. Think of people coming to Christ. Some of them have never even read the Bible before hearing the Good news. You are the one who is taking God's sovereignty out of the picture, in that you believe that people can permanently distort His word. If God spoke it, the Truth will come out to those who have ears to hear. By the way, I typed out the ears to hear sentence I just wrote before I saw you put it at the bottom. God is funny.


Hi Salvation. Sir, the "good news" they hear is part of what comes out of The Book. Without this Book, we can only know that God exists from the witness of creation (Romans 1). But we have no idea Who He is, what He is like or of our lost condition or of how He has acted in history to reveal Himself, or of our redemption in Christ and "the Good News" that tells us how to be saved, without this Book.

And if the names and numbers are all mixed up and contradictory in these Vatican Versions, then why would you think the parts about "the Good News" are true?

The fact is brother, most people who consider themselves fundamental Christians (and of course the liberals like this other guy here) do not believe in the infallibility of the Bible any more. Liberals never did.

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Luke 8:8

God bless.
 
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juleamager

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The Bible was never ever meant to be taken literally, in other words, at face value. The Bible is literal truths, metaphorical truths, allegory, hyperbole, and symbolic narrative. Before we start saying that the Bible says this, we need to learn the rules of hermeneutics and higher criticism, and never forget holy tradition. Not all of the Bible is literal. Much of it is narrative which explain, epitomize, or symbolize the essence and significance of Christian theology.

That said, the Bible should be taken to be infalliable in theology and ethics (regardless of version, it's all inspired), but certainly not inerrant.
 
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PaladinValer

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I most certainly hope that "this other guy here" isn't me, because if you think I'm a "liberal", then with all due respect, please learn what a liberal is.

I'm probably one of the most insistent people on the Nicene Creed here and oppose both abortion and same-sex marriage in the Church.

Leave my person or ANYONE'S person out of your replies. Typical KJV-O tactics as always; labeling anyone who disagrees essentially a reprobate. What a load of tripe.
 
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SalvationAtYourFingertips

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Okay, the KJV is not infallible. It makes a big mistake on a moral issue and that issue is swearing. Now, in most of the modern translations and KJV, they make it sound like Jesus says "do not swear at all" which makes no sense at all, because now, according at least to this interpretation, no Christian can ever make a vow to God. The real translation should have been: "Do not swear falsely at all, either by this or that, etc..."
 
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timewerx

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they make it sound like Jesus says "do not swear at all" which makes no sense at all

Actually, it makes a lot of sense.

You can't swear on anything at all. We don't know the future, we don't even know if we are still alive in the next hour. It's arrogance to think we can surely do something if we don't know what will happen in the future.

James 4:13-16 is no doubt related to Matthew 5:33-37:

13 Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” 14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.” 16 As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil.
 
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DamianWarS

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Undeniable Proof the ESV, NIV, NASB, Holman Standard, NET etc. are the new "Vatican Versions"...

bit like the pot calling the kettle black... the problem is the pot is so old it has forgotten all the ugliness that shaped what it is today.

The KJV is translated from the 1550 TR. The TR itself had many revisions and some of them highly controversial with the project originally begin taken on by a Catholic Priest and the infamous Comma Johanneum added in the 3ird edition from Catholic pressure. Not to mention the text itself was not complete and reversed translated from the Latin texts or in some cases altered to agree with the latin texts better. If the ESV, NIV, NASB.... etc are called "new Vatican Versions" then the KJV should be called the "old Vatican Version"

You can't call something perfect when it is translated from something with very clear imperfect motivations and changes.
 
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texian

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"Faith does not come by hearing mans opinion of God's word (there is no certainty, conviction, contrition, or conversion in opinions), but rather faith comes by hearing God's word itself being preached and taught. It is important you know (you are certain) that what you are hearing, reading, studying, preaching, and teaching is God's word. "Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the God." Jesus quoting Deuteronomy 8:3

What eventually became entitled the Textus Receptus or the "received text" (1633) was first presented by Erasmus (Novum Instrumentum omne, 1516). It was compiled from several manuscripts from the 'Majority text,' i.e. the Byzantine (Syrian) text, which were a large number of manuscripts and fragments originally protected by the eastern church from the western church's (Roman Catholics church's) efforts to destroy them, and therefore were not accessible to the western world until after the 1453 conquest of Constantinople by the Ottoman Empire. By Christians fleeing from the east into the west, these guarded manuscripts were eventually accessible to western scholars. The significance of these manuscripts is that they are able to be compiled as one Greek source from which to be translated from, which brought preaching and teaching the Word of God "as is" back into the church, the Catholic sources being many varied sources (with major confliction in doctrine between them) which brought dialogue (men's opinions) into the "church."


Today there is a major move to confuse the Protestant Church and bring it back under Roman Catholic rule (the "ecumenical" movement). By discrediting the use of the Textus Receptus as God's Word, examining (and thus negating) the Word of God in the "light" of Gnostic text, the Protestant Church is being seduced, deceived, and manipulated, drawn away from the preaching and teaching of sound doctrine and into the dialoguing of mans opinions (through Textural Criticism).

The Alexandrian and Origen text (Gnostic texts) are the basis for almost all contemporary translations. Oregenes Adamantius 185-245 AD, was a Greek, Egyptian-born Gnostic writer, teacher, & mystic, who, with his contingent of scribes, synthesized philosophical teachings into the scriptures (which no longer made them God's word but rather the opinions of men, needing enlightened men thereon to interpret them, i.e. the same as some "expert" lawyer rewriting your will so that he can "interpret" (re-interpret) what you meant, to others, done for his financial gain and prestige, i.e. so that others would turn to him for advice, i.e. direction). These Gnostic texts, with their humanistic, philosophical base, have opened the churches and seminaries up to humanistic reasoning (higher criticism or vain speculations) and dialogue, with the opinions of men in control of the meaning of God and His Word. Almost all translations today carry this error (heresy). "


Quote from Dean Gotcher


Faith is believing that the word of God is absolute truth. When you have two different Greek texts and a whole bunch of new English translations this is confusion brought about by the Dragon. And it diminishes that faith which sees scripture as fact, not opinion of men about what God inspired men of old to write. And it fits right in to the dialectic of Marxism.


Benjamin Bloom, Transformational Marxist who wrote the two volume book on the Taxonomy
of Educational Goal Objectives, by which all teachers must be
certified, said "“We recognize the point of view that
truth and knowledge are only relative and that there are no hard and
fast truths which exist for all time and places.” (Benjamin Bloom, et
al., Taxonomy of Educational Objectives, Book 1, Cognitive Domain)




"In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is established for
all time, nothing is absolute or sacred." (Karl Marx)


For Transformational Marxism and the dialectic mind there are no absolute truths and no absolute morals. Everything is relative and subject to dialogue within the dialectic process, with more emphasis on relationships and feelings than on truth or morals.


The present II Timothy type Christian community (II Timothy 3) does not follow Marx in his rejection of God, but it does make use of the dialectic procedure from Hegel and Marx
and refined by several American psychologists. In making use of the dialectic of Hegel and Marx as developed by the Transformational Marxists in this country, posing as psychologists and joined by some American psychologists, the II Timothy church is operating in Christian humanism.





 
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frogman2x

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<<The King James Bible translators themselves did not even primarily use the Greek text of Erasmus for their magnificent translation, but rather the Greek texts of Stephanus and Theodore Beza, though all three are in basic agreement.<<


So far you have only offered YOUR opinions which probably come from the SDA dogma. You have proven nothing.

To say the modern translations are RCC translations is pure nonsense and only points to your ignorance of how Bible are translated.

All of the ones you listed are more accurate than the KJ, which contains many mistranslated word, such as "kill" instead of "murder" in the 6th commandment.

Over the years the Bible scholars have become more knowlegable of both the Hebrew and Greek, making the modern translation not ony easier to read but are also make them much more accurate than the KJ.

k
 
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Keachian

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Brandplucked is back?

Just for anyone who is actually interested all his OPs are copy pastes from his website, so if you really wanted to trudge through them (long winded, repetitive, boring) you can go here and do so:
Home - Another King James Bible Believer

His whole premise is on sand and has been refuted many times.

Here is what I find an amusing discussion between him and James White on the Dividing Line, where he shows no understanding of White's book on the subject of KJVO and cant follow manuscript references:
Will Kinney on the Dividing Line (With Continued Discussion of Theology) - YouTube
 
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