Proof that God exists?

[Danyc]

A troll by any other name...

 

[Elioenai26]

Yup, except it wasn't only those, had personal experiences of (what I believed to be) Jesus too. Still wrong.

And what did He show you? What did you experience in this blessed communion with God?

 

[Elioenai26]

But you did say that. You said that one of the reasons a naturalistic explanation was not acceptable is because the relevant evidence is not there. But when asked whether you would accept it if the relevant evidence were to become available, you said that that you would regard it as a deception. So while you preach to others about their willingness to accept truth, perhaps it is worthwhile to do some introspection.

No I did not Archaeopteryx. Quote me if you will, but I did not say that.

 

[Tiberius]

If you put your hope, your faith, your trust in science or yourself, it is that which you worship. It is your god.

A man either worships and reverences God, or himself and other men.

There is no other way Gadarene.

A man can only have one master.

He cannot have two, for he will either love one and hate the other, or he will serve one and despise the other.

A man cannot have two masters. You cannot serve God and yourself.

You have a seriously distorted view of what "worship" means.

If your daughter were sick and dying, would you take her to the hospital, or would you just pray?

 

[Davian]

I am sorry but I do not understand what you are asking.

Science and Christianity are not foes, they are companions.

They are not enemies, they are friends.

So a friend is someone to whom you say:

- If we ever disagree on anything, ever, you are wrong.
- I have the truth. I will never change my mind on this.
- I cannot be wrong.
- I will fight you in the courts, in the classroom, in politics.
- I will pull my children from school and homeschool if necessary.

But we are friends.

Does that sound right?

 

[Elioenai26]

I was once a believer. I did all those things and more. I genuinely felt God. But now I do not believe he exists.

Why do you find it so hard to accept that a person can go from genuinely believing in God to being an atheist?

Because they cannot.

 

[Gadarene]

And what did He show you? What did you experience in this blessed communion with God?

Felt like love and power, mainly.

 

[Tiberius]

Since I never said that, I do not see why you insist on saying that I have.

So then you would accept a naturalistic explanation over a supernatural one if the naturalistic explanation was the best one?

 

[Gadarene]

Because they cannot.

And you'd be wrong.

You've two counterexamples here in this thread at least.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

No I did not Archaeopteryx. Quote me if you will, but I did not say that.

Here you go:

Scientists are unable to simulate life coming from non-life in a controlled experiential environment, and yet some want us to believe that this could happen in an uncontrolled, hostile, unintelligent, chaotic environment at random.

This is why many do not accept naturalistic origin of life theories.

So when scientists are able to do exactly that, you will be prepared to accept a naturalistic explanation to the origin of life?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

If what scientists ever try to convince us is contradictory to this truth, then it is a lie, and why would anyone want to believe a lie?

 

[Tiberius]

The indwelling presence of God is not an Islamic doctrine. This is unique to Christianity Tiberius.

Since when does it have to be a doctrine to count? My Muslim girlfriend would say she has felt the spirit of Allah within her.

 

[Elioenai26]

So a friend is someone to whom you say:

- If we ever disagree on anything, ever, you are wrong.
- I have the truth. I will never change my mind on this.
- I cannot be wrong.
- I will fight you in the courts, in the classroom, in politics.
- I will pull my children from school and homeschool if necessary.

But we are friends.

Does that sound right?

Depends on your definition of friend.

It also depends on your definition of science.

A friend would not say the above without warrant.

 

[Tiberius]

Because they cannot.

They can. I am proof. So is Gadarene.

 

[Elioenai26]

Since when does it have to be a doctrine to count? My Muslim girlfriend would say she has felt the spirit of Allah within her.

No Tiberius, I am sorry.

The indwelling Christ within a Christian can in no way be likened to what a Muslim may say they "feel" regarding Allah. In Islam, God is one with no distinguishing of persons. In fact, it could be seen as blasphemous for a Muslim to say that Allah was living inside of them.

This is just one of the many fundamental differences between Islam and Christianity, I know because I have had several friends who are Muslim and I have studied Islam for several years.

 

[Tiberius]

No Tiberius, I am sorry.

The indwelling Christ within a Christian can in no way be likened to what a Muslim may say they "feel" regarding Allah. In Islam, God is one with no distinguishing of persons. In fact, it could be seen as blasphemous for a Muslim to say that Allah was living inside of them.

This is just one of the many fundamental differences between Islam and Christianity, I know because I have had several friends who are Muslim and I have studied Islam for several years.

I'm sorry, I forgot that you were more qualified to interpret the religious experiences of my girlfriend than my girlfriend is.

Geez, you're arrogant. Telling people that they are wrong simply because you disagree.

 

[Elioenai26]

I'm sorry, I forgot that you were more qualified to interpret the religious experiences of my girlfriend than my girlfriend is.

Geez, you're arrogant. Telling people that they are wrong simply because you disagree.

I speak not for the experiences of your girlfriend. Only she can.

What I am saying is that no other religion is comparable with regards to the indwelling Christ of Christianity.

God living inside of a person is not a doctrine that any other religion teaches.

And this I know to be true because I have researched them.

 

[Elioenai26]

So then you would accept a naturalistic explanation over a supernatural one if the naturalistic explanation was the best one?

Of course I would! Why would I not? I must follow the evidence where it leads me.

 

[Elioenai26]

Here you go:

Read carefully what the last post of mine says.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Of course I would! Why would I not? I must follow the evidence where it leads me.

I don't need to point out that this is in contradiction with what you said earlier.

 

[Elioenai26]

Felt like love and power, mainly.

And this love and power, how is it that you remained not steadfast in it?