Proof that God exists?

[Tiberius]

I am not fighting against you.

You are a man created in the image of God, and as such, you are my neighbor. You are special, very precious and special in the sight of God. So much so that Christ died for you.

How could I not care for you?

What exactly did Gadarene do that meant Christ had to die?

 

[Danyc]

Prove God doesn't exist. The burden of proof works both ways.

I don't make the claim that God does not exist. We cannot know. I say, I don't know. You say that you know.

I make no claims. Therefore, I have no claims to back up.

You have claimed that God exists. Now, I would like for you guys to back it up. Just like if someone told me they were abducted by aliens. That is a claim. It must be justified.

 

[trientje]

I don't make the claim that God does not exist. We cannot know. I say, I don't know. You say that you know.

I make no claims. Therefore, I have no claims to back up.

You have claimed that God exists. Now, I would like for you guys to back it up. Just like if someone told me they were abducted by aliens. That is a claim. It must be justified.

I have never said that I can claim that God exists. But I do know that the burden of proof is not static. You say you make no claims. I say I can not prove for certain that he does exist. So we don't have a debate. I know for myself he exists but would never attempt to convince an atheist based on my feelings or personal beliefs. I'm concerned about some of the biblical claims that are made on this site which are taken out of context. And the fact that many on this site do not really understand what the bible really says.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

He does not have to offer you proof.

You know God exists when you look up into the sky on a starry night.

You also know God exist by looking within yourself.

Wrong on both counts.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Prove God doesn't exist. The burden of proof works both ways.

Prove that Zeus doesn't exist.

 

[trientje]

Black people should be happy! Obama's the president now!

Say What?????

 

[trientje]

There are magical fairies that live on the moon.

Prove that they don't.

(Do you see? the burden of proof lays on the person making the claim.)

Sorry, I didn't make any claims. We are not in formal debate and the burden of proof does not have to stay static.

 

[Danyc]

I have never said that I can claim that God exists. But I do know that the burden of proof is not static. You say you make no claims. I say I can not prove for certain that he does exist. So we don't have a debate. I know for myself he exists but would never attempt to convince an atheist based on my feelings or personal beliefs. I'm concerned about some of the biblical claims that are made on this site which are taken out of context. And the fact that many on this site do not really understand what the bible really says.

I'm glad to hear you understand that you cannot prove God's existence.

This is a start.

 

[trientje]

Prove that Zeus doesn't exist.

That's just silliness

 

[Tiberius]

That's just silliness

Why? It's exactly the same thing as what you said. Therefore what you said is silliness too!

Glad we got that settled!

 

[Archaeopteryx]

That's just silliness

Exactly.

 

[dlamberth]

I'm glad to hear you understand that you cannot prove God's existence.

This is a start.

Sorry, I'm using this post as a spring board to rant a little. So, to go off topic a bit...

Here I am...a Lover of God. Your absolutely correct, there's absolutely no way I can prove God's existence. And I don't know why I need to or even why I would want to. My experience of God are my experience. That's from where I know my Beloved God. For me in the way I operate with things spiritual, it's from what I experience that I pull knowledge of God from. Some call it the gnostic approach to knowing God. We all come at the question of God from different directions. Everyone else will come at that question about Divinity from many other directions than than I do. And that's the way it should be. There's not one True Way. There are as many ways as there are Human Beings. In included in the many "Ways" are all of the various flavors that we see in Atheism. So...I tend to see these Prove/Disprove God discussions as a bit silly. In the end, all of this is very personal and up to each individual.

But, it's a discussion that's been going on for a long time now and I suspect will be going on for ever into the future.

.

 

[Tiberius]

And if it works for you, then that's all well and good.

But you have to realise that you can be mistaken about this. As much as you really feel that God is real, you can be wrong. After all, there are Muslims, Hindus and people of countless other religions out there who feel that their gods exist just as strongly as you feel yours does, but you are absolutely convinced that they are wrong, aren't you?

So if a person can feel just as strongly as you do and be wrong, doesn't that mean that you could be wrong too?

The strengths of your beliefs doesn't show how accurate they are.

 

[Eudaimonist]

You know God exists when you look up into the sky on a starry night. You also know God exist by looking within yourself.

That isn't knowledge. That is just feeling that you know something. People often get the two confused.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Danyc]

Sorry, I'm using this post as a spring board to rant a little. So, to go off topic a bit...

Here I am...a Lover of God. Your absolutely correct, there's absolutely no way I can prove God's existence. And I don't know why I need to or even why I would want to. My experience of God are my experience. That's from where I know my Beloved God. For me in the way I operate with things spiritual, it's from what I experience that I pull knowledge of God from. Some call it the gnostic approach to knowing God. We all come at the question of God from different directions. Everyone else will come at that question about Divinity from many other directions than than I do. And that's the way it should be. There's not one True Way. There are as many ways as there are Human Beings. In included in the many "Ways" are all of the various flavors that we see in Atheism. So...I tend to see these Prove/Disprove God discussions as a bit silly. In the end, all of this is very personal and up to each individual.

But, it's a discussion that's been going on for a long time now and I suspect will be going on for ever into the future.

.

You're right. I appreciate people's feelings of the numinous- and transcendent experience, whether religious or not, is not in and of itself wrong or harmful. I encourage looking inside oneself and outside oneself- one of the things I find personally affronting about certain religions and beliefs are the assured certainty they grant their adherents.

When I am presented with ideas concerning the vastness of our cosmos, and I am forced to confront the fact that we may never know all that there is to know- that we may die as a species before we reach our potential- I am at once aware of both our collective power and ability for knowledge and progress and of the very real bleakness and desolation that this power and ability may bring.

It is exciting- and frightening. But I know that when I feel these things I am coming much closer to whatever 'truth' is in this world. We all are.


But also to repeat, for emphasis, what Tiberius has said; The Prove/Disprove God discussions are not silly in the least. They are discussions concerning an object, an entity, a 'force'- something said, by theists, to exist in reality. To be 'real'.

If it's real- we can know. That's our goal here.

It's fine if you understand you cannot prove God's existence- as I said, it's a start. Progress of a kind. Many others claim they can, don't, and then attempt to force others to live their lives the way they want them to. This is what is disgusting.

 

[Skavau]

He does not have to offer you proof.

You know God exists when you look up into the sky on a starry night.

You also know God exist by looking within yourself.

I do not "know" either of these things.

Even if by looking up at a starry night or by looking within myself I was to obtain some magical surge of confidence that God exists (I don't) it would not be knowledge.

In fact, if it is a really good night this song might go through my head.

BEING - Arrival - A Glorious Dawn - YouTube

 

[Skavau]

You know that it is true too. I know you do because you know what the scriptures say regarding this. Tell me, what caused you to fall from grace and into apostasy?

I couldn't care less what the scriptures say on it.

If the scriptures say that people when looking into the sky on a starry night know that God exists then the scriptures are flat out wrong, period.

 

[Skavau]

I am not fighting against you.

You are a man created in the image of God, and as such, you are my neighbor. You are special, very precious and special in the sight of God. So much so that Christ died for you.

How could I not care for you?

There's nothing wrong with him. He doesn't need your help.

You might feel his atheism and non-belief is a troublesome but he does not. You are projecting your concern onto him.

 

[Elioenai26]

That isn't knowledge. That is just feeling that you know something. People often get the two confused.


eudaimonia,

Mark

They do. Indeed they do Mark.

However, I am not speaking of just a feeling. In fact, I am not speaking of feeling at all. For I am not speaking of emotion but of intuitive, God given knowledge and awareness.

Even the most simple of persons discern rightly that the universe is evidence of God.

And our conscience within us either accuses or excuses us regarding God's righteous decrees.

 

[Elioenai26]

There's nothing wrong with him. He doesn't need your help.

You might feel his atheism and non-belief is a troublesome but he does not. You are projecting your concern onto him.

I am concerned for everyone here, atheist or not.

Why should I not be?

I would want someone to be concerned about me.