Proof for Creation/Against Evolution

[Crusading_Ostrich]

Hi everyone!

First off I will say that I do believe in a young earth and all that, and am anti-evolution as that I don't put any stock in it.

However, I have been in other conversation, (with a recently turned atheist), and try to argue for Creation but I don't have much proof (Besides the Bible, but when your adversary disregards it, it isn't the most effective tool). I know that there are faulty things with evolution and good things for creation, but I am just unsure of what they are as when I will bring up a point, it will be instantly shot down. Part of things I suppose are that the seems the way with most evolutionists, but I won't go there as it probably isn't fair, and has been only my experience.

 

[Amalthea]

I know that there are faulty things with evolution and good things for creation, but I am just unsure of what they are as when I will bring up a point, it will be instantly shot down.

Are you sure this is what you meant? Read it closely.

 

[Crusading_Ostrich]

Are you sure this is what you meant? Read it closely.

Oops Thanks...

I mean I knowt that there are problems with evolution. And also that there are physical proofs for creation. Whenever I bring up a point either against evolution, or pro-creation it gets ripped apart with more evolution backing it up. I'm just wondering if anyone knows of any specific things exactly for creation, or against evolution.

 

[SIXDAYCREATIONIST]

i'm thinking servantx all over again.

 

[Remus]

I mean I knowt that there are problems with evolution. And also that there are physical proofs for creation. Whenever I bring up a point either against evolution, or pro-creation it gets ripped apart with more evolution backing it up. I'm just wondering if anyone knows of any specific things exactly for creation, or against evolution.

adam149 posted this:
http://www.christianforum.com/t868164

What arguments are you using?

i'm thinking servantx all over again.

who?

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

i'm thinking servantx all over again.

Is he a universal? I've seen him play Creationist on at least three forums just to try to get Creationists to look bad.

 

[DancingWall]

Its simply a matter of faith (no proof needed)



GEN.1 [9] AND GOD SAID, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.[10] And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.



By the Word of God.



2 PETER [3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, [4]And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.[5] For this THEY WILLINGLY ARE IGNORANT of, that BY THE WORD OF GOD the HEAVENS WERE OF OLD, AND THE EARTH standing out of the water and in the water:



So why would God have made the heavens and the earth to appear older than they actually were at the time of creation? Do ya suppose it could simply come down to a matter of faith? Those with faith in God believe that God created the heavens and the earth just as the spoken Word says, even though the evidence for this is not seen.



HEBREWS 11 [1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.[2] For by it the elders obtained a good report.[3] THROUGH FAITH WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE WORLDS WERE FRAMED BY THE WORD OF GOD, SO THAT THINGS WHICH ARE SEEN WERE NOT MADE OF THINGS WHICH DO APPEAR.



Sooo….It really comes down to faith. You wont be able to prove that God created the heavens and the earth (as the Word says) through science. Common sense? Yes! Go outside on a clear night. Look. Think. If you don’t understand, well then….You might be able to see, but in truth you are blind.



1TIM.6 [20] O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of SCIENCE FALSELY SO CALLED:[21] Which some professing have ERRED CONCERNING THE FAITH. Grace be with thee. Amen.



Ive heard some say the above scripture is speaking of a couple of guys mentioned in 2nd Timothy. And although the wording seems to be the same to a point, I would disagree. This scripture speaks of science and the two guys in 2nd Tim. are doing some of their own vain babbling about the resurrection of the dead. Well, I suppose they could have been a couple of scientists.

 

[Crusading_Ostrich]

Its simply a matter of faith (no proof needed)

Yes, it is a matter of faith. But when trying to debate another on a point of view, they do not have the same faith as you do, you cannot use points that you believe to be true to another because they will reject them. I'm not at all rejecting faith here, but for those people who want to reach out and know that God is true (as in Thomas) then yes, proof is necessary.

 

[TwinCrier]

Any proof provided to an evolutionist will be dismissed as false or reinterpreted to support evolution. A biblical creation isn't viewed as an option at all.

 

[DancingWall]

Yes, it is a matter of faith. But when trying to debate another on a point of view, they do not have the same faith as you do, you cannot use points that you believe to be true to another because they will reject them. I'm not at all rejecting faith here, but for those people who want to reach out and know that God is true (as in Thomas) then yes, proof is necessary.

Doesnt the bible say our faith is to be found through the spoken Word? If your trying to convince people that God exists by showing proffs through creation it would seem to me your fighting a losing battle. I think the faith must be in place before the belief in creation and not the other way around Crusading Ostrich. You might better stick your head in the ground.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Doesnt the bible say our faith is to be found through the spoken Word? If your trying to convince people that God exists by showing proffs through creation it would seem to me your fighting a losing battle. I think the faith must be in place before the belief in creation and not the other way around Crusading Ostrich. You might better stick your head in the ground.

Creation is certainly part of God's word though.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

The first chapters in Genesis is the foundation to much doctine. Doctrine like why there is sin, why we need a Savior, why the world has sickness and why naturalism isn't a valid worldview, why marriage is between a man and a woman. The list goes on and on. Also apologetics is important.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear

I have seen many atheists such as coworkers, family members and strangers open up to the gospel message because of YEC. Once people know we can trust the Bible from Genesis and understand why there is sin and suffering and why we need a Savior a light bulb goes off in many people's heads and it all makes sense and they accept the Lord. This is what I have seen with years of experience.

 

[Crusading_Ostrich]

You might better stick your head in the ground.

Quite possibly . I also realize that in the long run, the debate over Creation/Evolution is completely unimportant. The real emphasis should be on accepting God and Jesus, and then worry about things from there.
The debate wasn't really that God exists, but more along the lines that evolution may not be what it is cracked up to be.
I think that we should know what we believe in. If I say I believe in God, and they ask why, I would go into an explanation. If someone asks why I don't believe in evolution, is it not right to have things to say about it?
So if a person did come to believe in God, what if they had problems about the origins of Genesis. What the Bible say and what science says are clearly at odds, and therefore one of them must be wrong. (assuming there is no hybrid view of OEC)
If one can give credence to the view of creation, in spite of the evolution prevailing view, would that not open doors too? If evolution were to fall, where would much of our science world be? How many people would lose jobs, textbooks be rewritten?
If one can only believe in creation through faith, that severely limits the credability of such an argument. There HAS to be evidence for such a view. I'm in no way saying that faith is bad, or that you need more than faith. I'm saying that if someone were to convert to Christianity, must they automatically assume the Bible to be true upon seeing no evidence for it?

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

I'm saying that if someone were to convert to Christianity, must they automatically assume the Bible to be true upon seeing no evidence for it?

Very good point. What does the Bible say?

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

You don't need to, and in fact are told by God himself not too, leave you mind at the door when you become a Christian.

 

[DancingWall]

OK Big Bird
But it seems to me you have taken on quite a task. Who knows? Maybe you, through youre ways will bring more to the old path than the way i have choosen. Different gifts? You must have been given many talents. May they be multiplied!

 

[DancingWall]

Hello P86
you posted
You don't need to, and in fact are told by God himself not too, leave you mind at the door when you become a Christian

Talk to ya in a few weeks P86.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Hello P86
you posted
You don't need to, and in fact are told by God himself not too, leave you mind at the door when you become a Christian

Talk to ya in a few weeks P86.

What? I'm not sure why you quoted me and just said talk to you in a few weeks but anyway, talk to you then.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

While you're at it, please prove that the Earth is at the center of the universe, rain comes from God opening the heavenly flood gates, and the Earth is flat.

I'm not sure what your getting at. Looking at your other post though I think your taking a swing at YEC.

 

[Rowell]

Hello P86
you posted
You don't need to, and in fact are told by God himself not too, leave you mind at the door when you become a Christian

Talk to ya in a few weeks P86.

I would disagree with that. God's creation is his Word, and we as Christians are encouraged to question the world (using the Bible, of course).

In responce to the first question -- the best way to argue against evolution is inquisitively. KNOW YOUR STUFF, then, ask questions that might make the evolutionist come around.

There's no proof for creation exactly, because the only proof you have is God's Word, which they don't consider legitamet. I've argued with an athiest evolutionist before in my free time, and the best I've been able to get him to is that he's now an agnostic (he believes the Bible is full of contradictions and inadequacies and cant be trusted). The best thing you can do is learn your material, bookmark websites, and get prepared.

If you lose, don't be discouraged. On the creation/evolution boards, I'm ripped to peices because I'm like the only young earth creationists there. They basically just "disagree" with my evidence. In other words, you can't win against those who have made up their mind -- but for all of us who see logic in science, maybe its possible.

The arguement of Creation vs. Evolution is not to win over the other, but to bring more people to the realization that evolution is more than likely wrong.

THings you can use are --

The Second Law of Thermodynamics -- it states the world is decaying and falling apart, so how can evolution, which states we're all getting more complex and better, possibly be true?

We Can Categorize Animals -- If evolution were true, each creature would merge into one another in the fossil record, and we would find it difficult, if not impossible, to categorize them the way we do with such distinctly different animals.

The Cave Men -- Almost all the cave men, like Neanderthal and Piltdown Man, are either human, apes, or fallicies. Learn which are which and have a few good sites about them saved.

Learn a Little About Genetics -- You'll get a lot of questions like "how can all the races come from only two people?" Learn that Adam and Eve had a more complete genome, and that they could spawn all the races and genetic diversity that makes the human race so vast and thriving. They'll probably contest this, but it comes down to how good you are in your knowledge.

Dinosaurs -- Learn passages in the Bible like Job 45 that talk about Behemoth and Leviathan, and what about their descriptions makes them impossible to be any modern day animal (Leviathian's smoke, Behemoth's "tail like a cedar"). Begin to put together the possibility that these two animals, along with the word "dragon" in the Bible, might possibly be referring to dinosaurs that evolutionists say died out millions of years ago.

A FANTASTIC site of reference is www.sixdaycreation.com. Its vidoes by Dr. Lambert are GREAT!

Keep the faith.

 

[DancingWall]

Hi Rowell
I didnt write that. Alls i said was i'd talk with P86 in a few weeks. I hope hes not silent then. Leavin your mind at the door(as he quoted)? Knock! Open.

 

[ps139]

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