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Problem with Mat. 13:24-43

Discussion in 'Christian Scriptures' started by bettercallpaul, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

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    As long as you "feel" that's true, it must be.
     
  2. JesusLovesOurLady

    JesusLovesOurLady Slave of the Handmaid of the Lord

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    You either love God, or you don't, bettercallpaul!
     
  3. JesusLovesOurLady

    JesusLovesOurLady Slave of the Handmaid of the Lord

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    God is also, Truth, hell is the place where people go who don't love God! If someone doesn't love God, God will not force that person to spend eternity with Him.
     
  4. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    You stopped me in my tracks there JLOL. :)
    I think what you're saying is the righteous love God and the unrighteous don't?
    I think if the whole of me loved God, I wouldn't need to come on to CF at all. I'd have no doubts.
    I really respect your perspective JLOL because I can see how much you do love God. You are no hypocrite. I guess I need to have your level of devotion.
     
  5. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    It is not our own righteousness by which we are justified and saved, but Christ's. So, yes, as the Bible says, because we do not earn our salvation, boasting is excluded.

    And we can be sure of our salvation, because we know there is no longer any condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

    "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

    He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

    As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

    Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

    Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:31-39

    And Jesus has promised never to leave us or forsake us.
     
  6. JesusLovesOurLady

    JesusLovesOurLady Slave of the Handmaid of the Lord

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    Thank you bettercallpaul. Look there are shades of black and white, (mortal and venial sin, people in a state of grace, and Big S Saints) but there are no grey areas. That's why we speak of sin and grace in terms of life and death, in fact sin is death. Yes, we shouldn't judge people, (including ourselves) and we should give everyone the benefit of a doubt, but, and I'm sure you will agree with me on this one, there comes a time where we have to say, "No! that's evil!" and oppose it.
     
  7. bettercallpaul

    bettercallpaul Full- time Catholic

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    I do.
    You will be pleased to know that I am reading the lives of Saints like St. Francis now. It is incredibly motivating. Thank God for Catholicism! :)
     
  8. Bluerose31

    Bluerose31 Christian Flower Supporter

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    No, I don't think Satan will be saved. I feel he will be destroyed one day by God.
     
  9. Bluerose31

    Bluerose31 Christian Flower Supporter

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    Thank you so much for saying that :)
     
  10. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is a completely fair interpretation.

    Yet, at any given moment, a person is either saved or not saved. There is no "sorta saved" There is no "sorta not saved". It IS a black & white matter.

    Don't, however, confuse knowledge and confidence of salvation with arrogance. Confidence in our faith is something upheld in the Bible.

    2 Corinthians 5:1 - "For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

    2 Corinthians 5:6-8 - "Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord— for we walk by faith, not by sight— we are of good courage"

    1 John 5:13-14 - "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. This is the confidence which we have "

    First, having a fear of hell doesn't make it the sole reason for loving God.

    Second, we're SUPPOSED to have some degree of fear. Philippians 2:12 - "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

    If you're standing on railroad tracks, and the train is barrelling down on you, you SHOULD feel some fear. If that fear compels you to jump out of the way, has something wrong or immoral occurred? I don't think so.

    But notice in the Matthew 13 parable it's talking about the tares AT HARVEST TIME that are taken and burned. At the time of judgment, it IS fatalistic, time for change is passed and gone, everyone's chance is done and over at that point.

    That's just false.

    If someone warns you to get off the train tracks before you get hit by the train, are they just trying to threaten you? Is it nothing but a "scare tactic"? Or, could they possibly be truly concerned about you and care about you and don't want to see you get hurt?
     
  11. Ahermit

    Ahermit Active Member

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    Lets keep this parable simple. God is Truth. Only the truth is genuine and real. Anything untrue is not real, but a deception, denial, or deluded. As long as we remain true (honest and loving) then we become good food (wheat) to sustain others towards becoming a true person like Jesus Christ. If we remain untrue (deceptive and fearful [lack of faith]) then we become harmful (weed) towards others from becoming true.

    As a Christian, a role model of being true, we can help the untrue and fearful (the weed) to repent their delusions and adapt a new way of living a true life by believing in Jesus Christ (the wheat).
     
  12. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    As far as the fact that the end of the righteous is different from the end of the unrighteous, yes, it's fairly accurate.
     
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  13. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Jesus explained the parable, did you read it?
    The wheat are those who are God's people, those He regenerates as born again
    The tares are the unsaved whose father is the devil. If God is not your spiritual Father, then Satan is your spiritual father.
    If your planted as wheat your never going to be a weed, the weeds are never going to become the wheat.
    Each are distinctly different.
    Weeds will never become wheat, you must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. If you are in Christ you have become a NEW CREATION, all things have become NEW. You are now the wheat. The old man is dead. The weed is the old man, the wheat is the new creation in Christ.

    You also never make yourself wheat, God does that, He is the one who plants you as the wheat.
    You do not plant yourself.
    You are not a free moral agent, either your saved or unsaved.
    Psalm 1 describes in a similar way the wheat versus the weeds.

    Blessed is the man
    Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
    Nor stands in the path of sinners,
    Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
    2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
    And in His law he meditates day and night.

    3 He shall be like a tree
    Planted by the rivers of water,

    That brings forth its fruit in its season,
    Whose leaf also shall not wither;
    And whatever he does shall prosper.

    -------------------------------------------------------
    4 The ungodly are not so,
    But are like the chaff which the wind drives away.
    5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment,
    Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.


    6 For the Lord knows the way of the righteous,
    But the way of the ungodly shall perish.

    Matthew 3:11-12New King James Version (NKJV)
    11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

    12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  14. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

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    The point of the parable is the mixed nature of the visible church. The weed in view is likely darnel, which is sometimes called "false wheat" because it looks just like wheat until it puts out an ear. So too, there are many in the church who are truly children of God (wheat) and also many false professors (darnel). It is not for us to try to separate them in this age because we might mistakenly pluck up true wheat along with the false. The church will be purified at the end of the age.
     
  15. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    The only thing that matters regarding salvation is becoming a new creation. And it is the Holy Spirit that makes us born again. We are not born again of our will.

    Galatians 6:14-16New King James Version (NKJV)

    14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

    15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.

    Blessing and a Plea
    16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy beupon them, and upon the Israel of God.

    John 1
    10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

    13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
     
  16. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Extends though beyond the church, God's field is the world. Those of the world are the weeds, those of God are the wheat. God also does not plant the weeds, which people falsely accuse Calvinism of saying.
    The weeds simply are of Satan and naturally evil natured as they are not born again of God.

    We find the weeds and wheat idea throughout the scriptures.

    19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

    21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
     
  17. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

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    True it does extend into the world. Implications being that we can never create a perfectly Christian society. It's a mistake to try to separate the wheat from the weeds in any sense - in the church or in the world - before the day of judgment. Christians and non-Christians will live side-by-side until the harvest.
     
  18. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    But the way of the ungodly shall perish. Those are people not an imaginary devil.
     
  19. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    You are on the same wide road concerning this, the same common 'wavelength' that opposes "Christian Scriptures" (the title of the section we are in).
    No, no one is saved after death.
    "Healed"? as of disease, obviously as there is no disease for those resurrected to glory and life in Jesus. Some are healed on earth, some don't see this until the resurrection, but they are saved before they die, according to "Christian Scriptures".
     
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