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I don't believe in hell and I feel he will heal everyone, even if some are healed after death.
As long as you "feel" that's true, it must be.
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I don't believe in hell and I feel he will heal everyone, even if some are healed after death.
You either love God, or you don't, bettercallpaul!Todays Gospel reading at Mass was problematic for me, I have to confess. The story of the wheat versus the weeds. The analogy apparently being that the righteous will be rewarded on the last day and the unrighteous will burn in Hell. Is that a fair interpretation of the this Gospel reading?
Dualism. The way of seeing the world in black and white. The good guys and the bad guys. Whilst there is of course some truth in this, I think what is closer to the truth is that most of us are shades of grey. We are both wheat and chaff. In short we sin. No matter how often we repent.
I still have a problem with the word "righteous" too. The day I consider myself "righteous" is the day I lose all humility. We must remain humble until judgement day and not take salvation as a given.
And here's a commentary extract of the Gospel passage I found:
"Who knows . With the grace of God and the patience of the community, "the weeds" may eventually turn into wheat."
I find this commentary totally unconvincing. Weed never magically turns into wheat. Poor analogy.
God is also, Truth, hell is the place where people go who don't love God! If someone doesn't love God, God will not force that person to spend eternity with Him.Finally someone who sees that hell is more a horrible threatening scare-tactic than a judgement from someone who's supposed to be "love".
You stopped me in my tracks there JLOL.You either love God, or you don't, bettercallpaul!
Todays Gospel reading at Mass was problematic for me, I have to confess. The story of the wheat versus the weeds. The analogy apparently being that the righteous will be rewarded on the last day and the unrighteous will burn in Hell. Is that a fair interpretation of the this Gospel reading?
Dualism. The way of seeing the world in black and white. The good guys and the bad guys. Whilst there is of course some truth in this, I think what is closer to the truth is that most of us are shades of grey. We are both wheat and chaff. In short we sin. No matter how often we repent.
I still have a problem with the word "righteous" too. The day I consider myself "righteous" is the day I lose all humility. We must remain humble until judgement day and not take salvation as a given.
And here's a commentary extract of the Gospel passage I found:
"Who knows . With the grace of God and the patience of the community, "the weeds" may eventually turn into wheat."
I find this commentary totally unconvincing. Weed never magically turns into wheat. Poor analogy.
Thank you bettercallpaul. Look there are shades of black and white, (mortal and venial sin, people in a state of grace, and Big S Saints) but there are no grey areas. That's why we speak of sin and grace in terms of life and death, in fact sin is death. Yes, we shouldn't judge people, (including ourselves) and we should give everyone the benefit of a doubt, but, and I'm sure you will agree with me on this one, there comes a time where we have to say, "No! that's evil!" and oppose it.You stopped me in my tracks there JLOL.
I think what you're saying is the righteous love God and the unrighteous don't?
I think if the whole of me loved God, I wouldn't need to come on to CF at all. I'd have no doubts.
I really respect your perspective JLOL because I can see how much you do love God. You are no hypocrite. I guess I need to have your level of devotion.
I do.I'm sure you will agree with me on this one, there comes a time where we have to say, "No! that's evil!" and oppose it.
No, I don't think Satan will be saved. I feel he will be destroyed one day by God.So do you believe that Satan will be saved also then?
Thank you so much for saying thatBlue. we are on the same wavelength. I think you've got the spiritual gift of discernment, for sure!
Yes, it is a completely fair interpretation.Todays Gospel reading at Mass was problematic for me, I have to confess. The story of the wheat versus the weeds. The analogy apparently being that the righteous will be rewarded on the last day and the unrighteous will burn in Hell. Is that a fair interpretation of the this Gospel reading?
Yet, at any given moment, a person is either saved or not saved. There is no "sorta saved" There is no "sorta not saved". It IS a black & white matter.Dualism. The way of seeing the world in black and white. The good guys and the bad guys. Whilst there is of course some truth in this, I think what is closer to the truth is that most of us are shades of grey. We are both wheat and chaff. In short we sin. No matter how often we repent.
Don't, however, confuse knowledge and confidence of salvation with arrogance. Confidence in our faith is something upheld in the Bible.I still have a problem with the word "righteous" too. The day I consider myself "righteous" is the day I lose all humility. We must remain humble until judgement day and not take salvation as a given.
First, having a fear of hell doesn't make it the sole reason for loving God.I'm guessing that a lot of people react to this passage with fear.
"well I'm gonna make sure I'm wheat and not weed."
I just question the motivation of people who love God because they fear Hell. It doesn't quite add up to me.
But notice in the Matthew 13 parable it's talking about the tares AT HARVEST TIME that are taken and burned. At the time of judgment, it IS fatalistic, time for change is passed and gone, everyone's chance is done and over at that point.I like that passage better because there is still a chance for all of us. It's encouraging. We just need to wake up.
The passage I quoted seems kind of fatalistic. 'the good guys are saved, and the rest are goin in the opposite direction!"
That's just false.Finally someone who sees that hell is more a horrible threatening scare-tactic than a judgement from someone who's supposed to be "love"
As far as the fact that the end of the righteous is different from the end of the unrighteous, yes, it's fairly accurate....The story of the wheat versus the weeds. The analogy apparently being that the righteous will be rewarded on the last day and the unrighteous will burn in Hell. Is that a fair interpretation of the this Gospel reading?
Todays Gospel reading at Mass was problematic for me, I have to confess. The story of the wheat versus the weeds. The analogy apparently being that the righteous will be rewarded on the last day and the unrighteous will burn in Hell. Is that a fair interpretation of the this Gospel reading?
Dualism. The way of seeing the world in black and white. The good guys and the bad guys. Whilst there is of course some truth in this, I think what is closer to the truth is that most of us are shades of grey. We are both wheat and chaff. In short we sin. No matter how often we repent.
I still have a problem with the word "righteous" too. The day I consider myself "righteous" is the day I lose all humility. We must remain humble until judgement day and not take salvation as a given.
And here's a commentary extract of the Gospel passage I found:
"Who knows . With the grace of God and the patience of the community, "the weeds" may eventually turn into wheat."
I find this commentary totally unconvincing. Weed never magically turns into wheat. Poor analogy.
The point of the parable is the mixed nature of the visible church. The weed in view is likely darnel, which is sometimes called "false wheat" because it looks just like wheat until it puts out an ear. So too, there are many in the church who are truly children of God (wheat) and also many false professors (darnel). It is not for us to try to separate them in this age because we might mistakenly pluck up true wheat along with the false. The church will be purified at the end of the age.
True it does extend into the world. Implications being that we can never create a perfectly Christian society. It's a mistake to try to separate the wheat from the weeds in any sense - in the church or in the world - before the day of judgment. Christians and non-Christians will live side-by-side until the harvest.Extends though beyond the church, God's field is the world. Those of the world are the weeds, those of God are the wheat. God also does not plant the weeds, which people falsely accuse Calvinism of saying.
The weeds simply are of Satan and naturally evil natured as they are not born again of God.
But the way of the ungodly shall perish. Those are people not an imaginary devil.Jesus explained the parable, did you read it?
The wheat are those who are God's people, those He regenerates as born again
The tares are the unsaved whose father is the devil. If God is not your spiritual Father, then Satan is your spiritual father.
If your planted as wheat your never going to be a weed, the weeds are never going to become the wheat.
Each are distinctly different.
Weeds will never become wheat, you must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. If you are in Christ you have become a NEW CREATION, all things have become NEW. You are now the wheat. The old man is dead. The weed is the old man, the wheat is the new creation in Christ.
You also never make yourself wheat, God does that, He is the one who plants you as the wheat.
You do not plant yourself.
You are not a free moral agent, either your saved or unsaved.
Psalm 1 describes in a similar way the wheat versus the weeds.
Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
3 He shall be like a tree
Planted by the rivers of water,
That brings forth its fruit in its season,
Whose leaf also shall not wither;
And whatever he does shall prosper.
-------------------------------------------------------
4 The ungodly are not so,
But are like the chaff which the wind drives away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the Lord knows the way of the righteous,
But the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Matthew 3:11-12New King James Version (NKJV)
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
You are on the same wide road concerning this, the same common 'wavelength' that opposes "Christian Scriptures" (the title of the section we are in).I think nothing can separate us from Gods love. I don't believe in hell and I feel he will heal everyone, even if some are healed after death.