Problem of Evil?

[Larniavc]

What does it cost to cancel a debt?

It wouldn’t cost God anything he did not decide to pay. Who can make enforceable demands of God?

 

[Larniavc]

Doesn’t it cost the amount of the debt? Plus, perhaps, interest? The owner eats the cost if the debt is cancelled.

If a man has infinite money and is owed money by another it costs him nothing to cancel the debt and earns him only gratitude.

I’m always surprised that God did not go the route of positive reinforcement instead of punishment. After all human psychologist have shown in studies that positive reinforcement is more efficacious in encouraging good behaviour.

 

[bling]

But the tragedies where no good happens are simply calamity.

Stating that calamity is to cause a down stream ‘good’ is no good to the person who is singled out by God to make a point to somebody else: that’s evil.

Blame me for those, since I did not jump in and provide the good that can come out of them.
Hopefully, I will respond better the next time and not continue in my selfish ways.

 

[Larniavc]

The "debt" can easily be unconditionally forgiven, but to get the benefit out of the debt being created in the first place the debtor must willingly accept the forgiveness of the debt as pure undeserved charity.

I’ve no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[Tree of Life]

It wouldn’t cost God anything he did not decide to pay. Who can make enforceable demands of God?

When we are talking about cancelling debt we are speaking analogically. But it’s still insightful. If you rob me of $1000 then I can either take you to small claims court or forgive you. What does it cost me to forgive you?

 

[Larniavc]

I think the answer is seen in Christ and him crucified. That is the cost that God himself paid to forgive sinners.

But if he just forgave the debt he would not have needed to create a son and have him crucified.

 

[bling]

If a man has infinite money and is owed money by another it costs him nothing to cancel the debt and earns him only gratitude.

I’m always surprised that God did not go the route of positive reinforcement instead of punishment. After all human psychologist have shown in studies that positive reinforcement is more efficacious in encouraging good behaviour.

You might want to read Matt. 18:21-35 for that one. It does not help and might even hurt the person that is forgiven an unbelievable huge debt with humbly accepting that forgiveness as pure undeserved charity.
Also, it cost God a lot to have a system that provides a way for humans to become like Himself with Godly type Love.

 

[Tree of Life]

But if he just forgave the debt he would not have needed to create a son and have him crucified.

The Son is eternal, begotten not made. He was never created but is the creator.

 

[bling]

When we are talking about cancelling debt we are speaking analogically. But it’s still insightful. If you rob me of $1000 then I can either take you to small claims court or forgive you. What does it cost me to forgive you?

Think about this:

There is a, one of a kind, Tiffany vase on your parent’s mantel that has been handed down by your great grandmother. You, as a young person, get angry with your parents and smash the vase. You are later sorry about it and repent and your loving parent can easily forgive you. Since this was not your first rebellious action your father, in an act of Love, collects every little piece of the vase and you willingly work together with your father hours each night for a month painstakingly gluing the vase back together. The vase is returned to the mantel to be kept as a show piece, but according to Antique Road Show, it is worthless. Working with your father helped you develop a much stronger relationship, comfort in being around him and appreciation for his Love.

Was your father fair/just and would others see this as being fair treatment? Did this “punishment” help resolve the issue?

Was restitution made or was reconciliation made and would you feel comfortable/ justified standing by your father in the future?

Suppose after smashing the vase, repenting and forgiveness, your older brother says he will work with your father putting the vase together, so you can keep up with your social life. Would this scenario allow you to stand comfortable and justified by your father?

Suppose Jesus the magician waved his hands over the smashed vase and restored it perfectly to the previous condition, so there is really very little for you to be forgiven of or for you to do. Would this scenario allow you to stand comfortable and justified by your father?

What are the benefits of being lovingly disciplined?

Suppose it is not you that breaks the vase but your neighbor breaks into your house because he does not like your family being so nice and smashes the Tiffany vase, but he is caught on a security camera. Your father goes to your neighbor with the box of pieces and offers to do the same thing with him as he offered to do with you, but the neighbor refuses. Your father explains: everything is caught on camera and he will be fined and go to jail, but the neighbor, although sorry about being caught, still refuses. The neighbor loses all he has and spends 10 years in jail. So was the neighbor fairly disciplined or fairly punished?

How does the neighbor’s punishment equal your discipline and how is it not equal?

Was the neighbor forgiven and if not why not?

 

[Larniavc]

When we are talking about cancelling debt we are speaking analogically. But it’s still insightful. If you rob me of $1000 then I can either take you to small claims court or forgive you. What does it cost me to forgive you?

No one robbed God of anything. God knew Eve would eat the fruit from the Tree of knowledge when he put the tree where she could get at it.

If anything God owes humanity for leaving an obvious danger in close proximity to a person with no grasp of good or evil.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I think the answer is seen in Christ and him crucified. That is the cost that God himself paid to forgive sinners.

That was Gods choice. God made up the price and then paid it. He did not have to do that. He could have just decided to forgive without demanding any payment. What would that have cost him, nothing. Again, that is what he expects us to do for others. He is unwilling to do this himself.

 

[bling]

I’ve no idea what you are trying to say.

Sin has purpose and the debt it creates has benefit, since both are needed to fulfill man's earthly objective. We not only need forgiveness, but to know God is our parent, so we need to be lovingly disciplined.

 

[Tree of Life]

That was Gods choice. God made up the price and then paid it. He did not have to do that. He could have just decided to forgive without demanding any payment. What would that have cost him, nothing. Again, that is what he expects us to do for others. He is unwilling to do this himself.

Maybe you’ve never forgiven anyone of anything. I recently had a contractor rob me of $1000 and I decided not to pursue the matter, but to forgive him and let it go. Last I checked, it cost me $1000 to forgive him. Forgiveness hurts!

 

[Larniavc]

Matt. 18:21-35

You might want to read Matt. 18:21-35 for that one. It does not help and might even hurt the person that is forgiven an unbelievable huge debt with humbly accepting that forgiveness as pure undeserved charity.
Also, it cost God a lot to have a system that provides a way for humans to become like Himself with Godly type Love.

That clearly shows how people should forgive the debt of others exactly like the King did (clearly analogous to God as stated by Jesus).

If the King can forgive the debt therefor God can. Yet he does not.

God could have humans become like himself without any effort. My understanding is that God’s power is unrestrained.

 

[Larniavc]

Blame me for those, since I did not jump in and provide the good that can come out of them.
Hopefully, I will respond better the next time and not continue in my selfish ways.

I don’t understand.

 

[Larniavc]

The Son is eternal, begotten not made. He was never created but is the creator.

My point still stands.

 

[Tree of Life]

My point still stands.

I don’t think so. Forgiveness is never free. It costs the person doing the forgiving.

 

[Larniavc]

Sin has purpose and the debt it creates has benefit,

Not for the individual. It’s only function is to motivate people to worship God.

Rather than force debt onto people why did God not encourage good behaviour with positive reinforcement?

 

[Larniavc]

I don’t think so. Forgiveness is never free. It costs the person doing the forgiving.

It can’t cost God unless he allows it to cost him. How can he be held to cost by his own creation?

 

[Larniavc]

Sin has purpose and the debt it creates has benefit, since both are needed to fulfill man's earthly objective. We not only need forgiveness, but to know God is our parent, so we need to be lovingly disciplined.

Adding ‘lovingly’ in front of words does not make it so.