Probability and Creation

[KWCrazy]

So what makes you so sure you're interpretation of the bible and your sect of Christianity is right and the rest are wrong?

I don't believe in the doctrine of men.
Organized religion is great, but when it deviates from the Bible it loses it's veracity.
I've never seen and angel but I've seen demons and I know them to be real. I've seen their influence on people and I've seen the difference when they've been exercised.

My references to Jesus's quotes in the Bible being wrong, aren't my opinion. There from the bible, something you claim to be the word of god and I claim to be a book written by men.

Your claim is from incredulity and my understanding is from experience and revelation. You believe only what you see, feel, hear, touch, taste or smell. Your senses, however, are an imperfect perception and a poor judge of reality. Reality includes the sum total of all existence; natural and supernatural. To deny the supernatural is to deny the greatest part of reality.

There was no great flood in the time , Adam and Eve is fiction,

So you who were not there dispute the word of Christ who was? Don't let your lack of knowledge of the Scriptures give you some notion that you know better than what has been written.

1. Cain and Abel were married, where did the wives come from?

Adam and Eve had many children and their children had children. Cain's wife was either a sister or a niece. The land of Nod was a place of wandering, meaning that Cain was an outcast. As all shared a common bloodline, Cain had a reason to fear the rest of his family for his murder. Adam lived 930 years. Imagine how many children could be produced in such a time. Imagine how many descendants. People lived a very long time, there was no birth control and they seemed to be very healthy, so why would they not have very large families? Also, read this and this.

 

[Givemeareason]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. We know that the entire universe was not created a few thousand years ago.

 

[quatona]

Incorrect. I've always said that origination was impossible. The difference is that God can do the impossible by definition, and without some supernatural interference the impossible could never happen.

I see what you did there. :chuckle:

 

[paulm50]

I don't believe in the doctrine of men.
Organized religion is great, but when it deviates from the Bible it loses it's veracity.
I've never seen and angel but I've seen demons and I know them to be real. I've seen their influence on people and I've seen the difference when they've been exercised.

The Bible was created by organised religions. This is proven. To say they were inspired by god, relies on the organisers to be telling you the truth. That time, as they have lied so often. Old and New Testaments were created for political reasons.

Tell us more about the demons you saw?

Your claim is from incredulity and my understanding is from experience and revelation. You believe only what you see, feel, hear, touch, taste or smell. Your senses, however, are an imperfect perception and a poor judge of reality. Reality includes the sum total of all existence; natural and supernatural. To deny the supernatural is to deny the greatest part of reality.

My claim is from what I see, read, feel, hear, touch, taste or smell. Your's is from what you imagine and what men with political aims tell you.

So you who were not there dispute the word of Christ who was? Don't let your lack of knowledge of the Scriptures give you some notion that you know better than what has been written.

No I don't dispute the word of Christ. I dispute the word of men writing, telling me what he said. And the word of 4th Century rulers telling me what I should believe. You and I have no idea what he really said. In fact gospels written by people who were close to Jesus, were kept out of the bible. Paul certainly never met Jesus, and Christianity was formed by him. Read up on the struggle he had with originals followers of Jesus. They hared the idea of including Gentiles.

Adam and Eve had many children and their children had children. Cain's wife was either a sister or a niece. The land of Nod was a place of wandering, meaning that Cain was an outcast. As all shared a common bloodline, Cain had a reason to fear the rest of his family for his murder. Adam lived 930 years. Imagine how many children could be produced in such a time. Imagine how many descendants. People lived a very long time, there was no birth control and they seemed to be very healthy, so why would they not have very large families? Also, read this and this.

Cain and Abel's wives could't be a niece unless Adam or Eve had a Brother or Sister. So your saying he married his sister. Isn't incest a crime in the bible?

Better to go with the explanation that god created loads of people and never told anyone. Which explains this.

I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me" (Genesis 4:13-14). God responded, "Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him" (Genesis 4:15-16).

Where did all those people come from?

 

[Davian]

...
Third Law of Thermodynamics. The third law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a system at absolute zero is a well-defined constant. This is because a system at zero temperature exists in its ground state, so that its entropy is determined only by the degeneracy of the ground state.
...

Of course, you will exempt from these laws the stuff you believe in (gods/angels/afterlife/miracles/souls/etc) because... you have to. You cherry pick science as you see fit.

 

[Davian]

Incorrect. I've always said that origination was impossible.
...

And you have yet to substantiate that claim.

 

[Davian]

... To deny the supernatural is to deny the greatest part of reality.
...

I do not deny it. I ask for a demonstration of its existence beyond that of your imagination.

 

[TomZzyzx]

No I don't dispute the word of Christ. I dispute the word of men writing, telling me what he said. And the word of 4th Century rulers telling me what I should believe. You and I have no idea what he really said. In fact gospels written by people who were close to Jesus, were kept out of the bible. Paul certainly never met Jesus, and Christianity was formed by him. Read up on the struggle he had with originals followers of Jesus. They hared the idea of including Gentiles.



Cain and Abel's wives could't be a niece unless Adam or Eve had a Brother or Sister. So your saying he married his sister. Isn't incest a crime in the bible?

Better to go with the explanation that god created loads of people and never told anyone. Which explains this.

I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me" (Genesis 4:13-14). God responded, "Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him" (Genesis 4:15-16).

Where did all those people come from?

How do you know "gospels written by people who were close to Jesus, were kept out of the bible"?

You are mistaken, Adam and Eve's brothers and sisters would have been Cain and Able's uncles and aunts. Cain's niece would have been one of his brother's or sister's daughters. Incest was not a "crime" in the beginning otherwise they would not have been able to populate the earth.

Genesis 4:15-16 probably happened hundreds of years after Cain and Able were born. Hundreds of, if not thousands of, people could have been on the earth by the time Genesis 4 takes place.

There is no proof that God created loads of people and didn't tell anyone. Talk about your fairy tales.

 

[SamuelTP1977]

I feel that what makes sense in someone's own mind, is something that can't be controlled. Also, different religious views should be protected and respected by the law. About existence it could have come into existence 5 minutes ago for all we know, dreamed up in the mind of a sleeping God.

About the big bang that does sound to me like it got created and had a beginning some fourteen billion years ago. Perhaps this was done by Jesus Christ using mostly natural processes so as to create a world that we can understand and take care of in a responsible way. To me it looks like Global Warming will end civilization if we don't fix that, but I digress.

Thanks for your thoughts on this issue, we are not made to know, but you really can't help but wonder.

Sincerely,

Sam

 

[KWCrazy]

Of course, you will exempt from these laws the stuff you believe in (gods/angels/afterlife/miracles/souls/etc) because... you have to. You cherry pick science as you see fit.

God, angels, demons and souls are supernatural; not withing the realm of science. Science is only the study of the physical world, which is only a part of our existence.

 

[KWCrazy]

And you have yet to substantiate that claim.

The First Law of Thermodynamics; matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed.

 

[Moral Orel]

oops

 

[Davian]

God, angels, demons and souls are supernatural; not withing the realm of science. Science is only the study of the physical world, which is only a part of our existence.

Or, gods, angels, demons, and souls are imaginary. That would also make them beyond the realm of science, and is far more parsimonious.

 

[Davian]

The First Law of Thermodynamics; matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed.

Inflation theory allows for the creation of energy without violating that law. Or are you still cherry-picking science as you see fit?

 

[paulm50]

How do you know "gospels written by people who were close to Jesus, were kept out of the bible"?

You are mistaken, Adam and Eve's brothers and sisters would have been Cain and Able's uncles and aunts. Cain's niece would have been one of his brother's or sister's daughters. Incest was not a "crime" in the beginning otherwise they would not have been able to populate the earth.

Genesis 4:15-16 probably happened hundreds of years after Cain and Able were born. Hundreds of, if not thousands of, people could have been on the earth by the time Genesis 4 takes place.

There is no proof that God created loads of people and didn't tell anyone. Talk about your fairy tales.

Because they're being discovered, even after the massive attempt to destroy them.

Where does it mention in the bible Adam and Eve's brothers and sisters. where does it say Incest wes not a crime and Cain and Abel married brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews?

So all these people came from Adam and Eve?

You're adding to the bible to make it work in ways that are preposterous. The problem for your debate it it ends at what was written 1,000s of years ago. Knowledge can be added to every day. Blind Faith in a book, ends at the book.

And yet, people who claim it's the word of god, don't abide by all the rules. Blind Faith Christians tend to be very selective about what they believe and don't.

 

[KWCrazy]

Inflation theory allows for the creation of energy without violating that law. Or are you still cherry-picking science as you see fit?

We KNOW the First LoT is correct.
We don't know the same about inflation theory.
Beyond that, inflation theory doesn't deal with the problem of origination, only what happened immediately AFTER origination.
Where did the energy come from to produce the Big Bang?
I repeat. THERE ARE NO scientifically valid theories of origination.

 

[KWCrazy]

Where does it mention in the bible Adam and Eve's brothers and sisters. where does it say Incest wes not a crime and Cain and Abel married brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews?

Actually, surprisingly few women are mention in the Bible.
Incest was not a problem until much, much later. Some have said it was because the gene pool eventually became polluted. However, in the beginning everyone came from Adam and Eve so the gene pool was perfect. Maybe that's why they lived 900 years. The laws of Moses prohibited incest. In the time of Adam and in the time of Noah, how else could the word repopulate?

 

[Davian]

We KNOW the First LoT is correct.
We don't know the same about inflation theory.

It remains to be falsified.

Beyond that, inflation theory doesn't deal with the problem of origination, only what happened immediately AFTER origination.
Where did the energy come from to produce the Big Bang?

Dunno. How much was needed?

I repeat. THERE ARE NO scientifically valid theories of origination.

You said that "origination was impossible". Are you changing your position?

 

[KWCrazy]

It remains to be falsified.

I have a theory that the sun pooped out all the planets.
That theory has yet to be falsified.
So it's a valid scientific theory?

Dunno. How much was needed?

Let's see.
There's an entire universe full of stuff.
It's all pretty large.
It all had to be created, so I'd say a LOT was needed.

You said that "origination was impossible". Are you changing your position?

No, origination is impossible.
There are no valid theories of origination because origination is impossible.
How is that changing my position?

 

[Davian]

I have a theory that the sun pooped out all the planets.
That theory has yet to be falsified.
So it's a valid scientific theory?

If you can show that you have a workable method of testing it, and you can show how it is falsifiable. Go for it.

Let's see.
There's an entire universe full of stuff.
It's all pretty large.
It all had to be created, so I'd say a LOT was needed.

You do know that that the net amount of energy observed in the universe is zero, or near so?

No, origination is impossible.
There are no valid theories of origination because origination is impossible.
How is that changing my position?

I did not say that you did - you just said it differently in two different posts. Your claim that it is impossible remains unsubstantiated. You can't prove it, can you?