Pro-Palestinian supporters at Columbia University confront Jews ‘to push them out of camp’

[2PhiloVoid]

The issue is whether "The Jews killed Jesus" should be some sort of religious cut-out exception to apparent anti-semitism.

First, it wasn't "The Jews" that killed Jesus, but the Romans aided by the Jewish religious authorities (the Sanhedrin).

That I completely agree with.

Second, the whole bit with the Sanhedrin turning him over to the Romans for execution seems weird (why would the Romans do their bidding and not kill him themselves).

Can you think of some reasons why?

Third, whole "trial before Pilate" is exceedingly unlikely and is an obvious theological construct about the nature of the sacrifice of Jesus. And finally, if even if "the blame" is placed on the Sanhedrin (and Judas), why is that a "bad" thing to Christians -- wasn't it needed to fulfill the planned sacrifice?

In the same way that you and I would correct the first issue you mentioned (rightly) above to read, "Some specific subset of Jews....catalyzed the execution of Jesus," I'd also suggest you do the same with your semantics in asking, "Why is that a 'bad' thing to Christians." Only on a practical level is it a 'bad' thing and only for some people who identify as Christian, but not in the way that Paul the Apostle would describe it theologically (and did describe it, in a quite qualifed way, a way that Gentile Christians haven't quite wrapped their minds around correctly at all times during the past 1,900 years ....)

You're right---Jesus' unjust, sacrificial death was needed to fulfill the theological plan, but unfortunately not everyone does a good job of engaging the historical nuances of either the Bible or of extra-biblical sources and thereby applying sufficient hermeneutics to avoid anti-semitism.

Blaming all Jews for the killing of Jesus (including with more explicit phases like "Christ killers") has a long history of use in othering, excluding, and persecuting Jews in Christendom.

Yes, I fully understand that, which is why I study various aspects of Jewish history and Judaica, fitting nicely beside all else I've studied where Human Rights history is of interest.

All is physics.

That's a different thread forum.

 

[RDKirk]

I am a Star Trek fan and I am open to any discussion about it.

So am I. But I'm also a Jesus fan, and open to any discussion about Him.

 

[rjs330]

Israelis say similar things about Gazans.

No they don't. Just the fact that you think they do is concerning. Israel weren't the ones shooting rockets into Gaza, sending suicide bombers into Gaza, throwing parties celebrating the death of Gazans or teaching their children how to murder Gazans. Israelis were all about instructing people how to defend themselves against Gazans who would try and come in and murder them like on October 7.

What a nonsensical statement you made.

 

[rjs330]

If I come into your home and butcher your infant in front of you and then rape your wife and kill her - are you saying you are going to love me?

I think that IS why Jesus is saying. However that does not preclude you from protecting your family from the intruder including killing them if necessary. If you love your family you don't just let someone rape and slaughter them. Jesus isn't calling us to live our enemies more than our family.

And God has set government in place to be our protector and we should demand that. They are to be the punisher of evil. And in this case Israel's responsibility is to protect their citizens and punish the evil in Gaza.

 

[rambot]

After butchering over 1200 of them and kidnapping another 200+......so tell us, why should they think otherwise?......since they (Gazans) are responsible for placing and keeping Hamas in power?......We didn't have the same sympathy for the German population in WWII even though the vast majority were never Nazi's. We leveled that country.....without pity or sympathy. I won't even go to the Japanese main island......

1200?

A Gazan child is killed ever 45 miunutes.

They need to get up to 50,000

No they don't. Just the fact that you think they do is concerning.

It's actually people in the Israeli cabinet who make those disturbing threats. Quite a few Israelis don't actually want to see Gazans hurt.
But seems quite a few Americans are literally RELISHING what's happenning to them. EVen the christians on this website.

Israel weren't the ones shooting rockets into Gaza,

ooof. Spoiler alert there.

throwing parties celebrating the death of Gazans or teaching their children how to murder Gazans.

LOL! You haven't seen the videos I guess....the ones is Israeli soldiers; or the ones of other Israeli citizens doing exactly that. But it doesn't matter because those videos can be found websites that just get dismissed.

 

[rjs330]

That's too bad that Jewish people are so uncomfortable with the idea that the people whose land was stolen and whose land CONTINUES to be stolen, have chants that indicate they want their land back.
It must be really hard to be getting all the land while killing Gazan children, to have to ..hear those words being said.

Pure propegandistic anti-semetic hogwash. It is nothing but veiled verbal support for the destruction of Israel and the murder of Jews.

Now I don't think that is what you are calling for. But your statements are exactly what are used by the murderers and terrorists. The fact rhat you are spouting the same things as they are should concern you.

And you support Pro Hamas statements then?

You are for sure.

Funny. I posted a link showing Pro-Palestinian a person getting beat and the above post makes it clear ProPalestinian students are also getting threatenned and assaulted.

Yep and both are wrong and should be arrested.

 

[rambot]

Pure propegandistic anti-semetic hogwash. It is nothing but veiled verbal support for the destruction of Israel and the murder of Jews.

Let me know when you have a thoughtful reply instead of a bunch of silly

Criticism of the Jewish State is not anti-semetic and I loath individuals who equate what Nazis did to me pointing out that there is video evidence of the IDF committing war crimes.

Now I don't think that is what you are calling for. But your statements are exactly what are used by the murderers and terrorists. The fact rhat you are spouting the same things as they are should concern you.

Why would criticism of a state's illegal actions be a concern for me?

You guys don't like that I share terrible stories of what the Israeli govt. and IDF forces are doing to Gazans and you insinuate I am basically a Nazi.

You BASELESSLY toss away humanitarian aid organization reports that support Gazan claims and THEN say that me sharing them is "Anti-semetic"? It's not intellectually appropriate to ignore it but I understand the cognitive dissonance would be far too hard to manage.

You are for sure.

No, I'm not.

I DO support third party humanitarian organizations and UN reports that clearly show indiscretion.


Help me understand:
How come it is difficult to accept that the IDF may not be ALWAYS behaving within the bounds of international law?

 

[BCP1928]

Hate speech: definition: abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice on the basis of ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or similar grounds.​

​

The Anti-Semitic Racist protestors are chanting "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free"

Do you have a clue the meaning?

Even the shorthand, “from the river to the sea,” echoes through pro-Palestinian protests, crackles across social media and is available on a variety of merchandise, from sweatshirts to candles.​

​

Ask Jewish people in London what’s so chilled them about the current spike in antisemitism, and many will cite what seems like the ubiquity of the slogan. It is a sign, they suggest, that there’s much to fear.​

​

“Have no doubt that Hamas is cheering those ‘from the river to the sea’ chants, because a Palestine between the river to the sea leaves not a single inch for Israel,” read an open letter signed by 30 Jewish news outlets around the world and released on Wednesday.​

​

And in the wake of Hamas’ killing of civilians on Oct. 7, they’re not buying that the chant is merely anti-Israel. Backed by groups such as the Anti-Defamation League, they say it’s inherently anti-Jewish.​

​

“No one can now say that in the eyes of Hamas, a hatred of Israel does not mean a hatred of all Jews,” said London resident Sarah Nachshen. “The slogans and placards and chants calling for the eradication of Israel and, indeed, all Jews have clearly shown this.”​

​

So my friend, if you do indeed support them - you are supporting hate speech towards people of the Jewish religion.

Notice - it is the Jewish students being targeted on campuses:

https://www.reddit.com/r/newyorkcity/comments/17gn7o3

Yeah, it's a shame, really, that things can't go back to the way they were before the modern state of Israel, when Palestine was a refuge for Jews fleeing the pogroms of Europe.

 

[BCP1928]

Pure propegandistic anti-semetic hogwash. It is nothing but veiled verbal support for the destruction of Israel and the murder of Jews.

Now I don't think that is what you are calling for. But your statements are exactly what are used by the murderers and terrorists. The fact rhat you are spouting the same things as they are should concern you.

Not if they are true.

You are for sure.

Yep and both are wrong and should be arrested.

 

[Hans Blaster]

So am I. But I'm also a Jesus fan, and open to any discussion about Him.

Not a "fan" and he is poorly documented. I find it difficult to have discussions about a person people think is a god.

 

[RDKirk]

Not a "fan" and he is poorly documented. I find it difficult to have discussions about a person people think is a god.

Okay, you're intent on dancing around the analogy.

 

[Valletta]

Not a "fan" and he is poorly documented. I find it difficult to have discussions about a person people think is a god.

Not a "god," as an ex-Catholic you know better.

 

[Hans Blaster]

That I completely agree with.

Can you think of some reasons why?

Oh, I'm sure you've already figured it out on your own.

In the same way that you and I would correct the first issue you mentioned (rightly) above to read, "Some specific subset of Jews....catalyzed the execution of Jesus," I'd also suggest you do the same with your semantics in asking, "Why is that a 'bad' thing to Christians." Only on a practical level is it a 'bad' thing and only for some people who identify as Christian, but not in the way that Paul the Apostle would describe it theologically (and did describe it, in a quite qualifed way, a way that Gentile Christians haven't quite wrapped their minds around correctly at all times during the past 1,900 years ....)

I'm not asking "why it is bad", I'm perplexed by the Christians that think it is bad. Do they not understand the basic "prophetic necessity" of their religion's own story? I haven't worked out what of Paul's theology gets into the gospels, but the whole death and suffering story was so ritualized and repeated, that it just came off as the fulfillment of a plan, like a well plotted story.

You're right---Jesus' unjust, sacrificial death was needed to fulfill the theological plan, but unfortunately not everyone does a good job of engaging the historical nuances of either the Bible or of extra-biblical sources and thereby applying sufficient hermeneutics to avoid anti-semitism.

And yet so many have managed turn the story into a reason to hate Jews including pastors and politicians.

Yes, I fully understand that, which is why I study various aspects of Jewish history and Judaica, fitting nicely beside all else I've studied where Human Rights history is of interest.

I've never found Jewish history to be interesting or why so many outsiders are obsessed with it. If it weren't for Christians making these kinds of attacks they'd be no more important than the Tuvans. (Though their folk music wouldn't be as good.)

That's a different thread forum.

Like physics, it is all fora.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Not a "god," as an ex-Catholic you know better.

Oh sorry, I forgot what I used to believe...

"son of a god"

I'm not sure you are getting the "ex" part. He doesn't mean anything to me, just a preacher who's been dead for 2000 years, no more special than any other claimed god.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Oh, I'm sure you've already figured it out on your own.

I'm not asking "why it is bad", I'm perplexed by the Christians that think it is bad. Do they not understand the basic "prophetic necessity" of their religion's own story? I haven't worked out what of Paul's theology gets into the gospels, but the whole death and suffering story was so ritualized and repeated, that it just came off as the fulfillment of a plan, like a well plotted story.

Being a "Christian" unfortunately doesn't come with a mandatory reading of any interpretive manual, or mandates for reading much of anything else for that matter.

And yet so many have managed turn the story into a reason to hate Jews including pastors and politicians.

For the reason I just explained above.

I've never found Jewish history to be interesting or why so many outsiders are obsessed with it. If it weren't for Christians making these kinds of attacks they'd be no more important than the Tuvans. (Though their folk music wouldn't be as good.)

Jewish history becomes interesting only when you allow it to take on prophetic properties. Then it begins to have inherent meanings that other histories don't necessarily share.

Like physics, it is all fora.

While I am a skeptic of sorts via critical thinking, I'm not a physical reductionist (also via critical thinking), so I can't say I can agree there. But that's for a different thread discussion someday.

 

[rjs330]

Let me know when you have a thoughtful reply instead of a bunch of silly

Criticism of the Jewish State is not anti-semetic and I loath individuals who equate what Nazis did to me pointing out that there is video evidence of the IDF committing war crimes.

Let me know when you decide to not put out Terrorist lies and propaganda.

Why would criticism of a state's illegal actions be a concern for me?

You guys don't like that I share terrible stories of what the Israeli govt. and IDF forces are doing to Gazans and you insinuate I am basically a Nazi.

There are no illegal actions. You aren't a Nazi but you spread lying pro terrorist propaganda. You are doing their bidding and doing exactly what they want you to do. This is a war and people, citizens are killed in war. If Gaza didn't want a war they should stop attacking and murdering jews.

Israel had done more to try and protect rhe civilians more than almost any country. But rhe war crimes are rhe terrorists for hiding among the civilians and using them as shields. An IDF unit was attacked while trying to save a civilian who was in a wheel chair. The terrorist was hiding behind her and attacked them from underneath her chair. These are the people you are sending out propaganda for.

People who do this are the stooges for the terrorists.

You BASELESSLY toss away humanitarian aid organization reports that support Gazan claims and THEN say that me sharing them is "Anti-semetic"? It's not intellectually appropriate to ignore it but I understand the cognitive dissonance would be far too hard to manage.

Humanitarian aid groups don't like war anymore than anyone else. Many of those organizations are anti-Israel and support the Palestinians who are also anti-Semetic. It's intellectually vapid to support a people who have been attacking the Jews for decades and calling for their eradication.

War is a brutal ugly thing and I don't see all these so called humanitarian groups calling for Hamas to stop using civilians and civilian places as shields for their terrorist war against Israel. Are they all demanding the release of Jewish hostages and the immediate surrender of Hamas? No, all they do is whine about Israel because they are anti-Semetic as well. Despite the fact that their aid is being stolen from the people by Hamas. Where is their complaints about that?

Help me understand:
How come it is difficult to accept that the IDF may not be ALWAYS behaving within the bounds of international law?

In every war, every army fights and individual soldiers do things that aren't always within bounds. In this case there is a LARGE deliberate misrepresentation of what Israel is doing and has done to try and mitigate civilian casualties while NO consideration is given to the fact that the Palastinians are fighting using human shields, hospitals and housing to conduct their war against Israel.

To continue to post information and support the propaganda of rhe terrorists is pure anti-Semitism.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Being a "Christian" unfortunately doesn't come with a mandatory reading of any interpretive manual, or mandates for reading much of anything else for that matter.

For the reason I just explained above.

Noted.

Jewish history becomes interesting only when you allow it to take on prophetic properties. Then it begins to have inherent meanings that other histories don't necessarily share.

This, frankly, makes my point for me. The "interest" in Jewish history is driven by the prophetic appropriation of it for other purposes. As an outsider (now) I find such usage rather disrespectful and self-centered. (The record is exceedingly thin with contemporaneous sources as well.)

While I am a skeptic of sorts via critical thinking, I'm not a physical reductionist (also via critical thinking), so I can't say I can agree there. But that's for a different thread discussion someday.

A sadly limited perspective.

 

[rjs330]

Not if they are true.

They aren't. Israel hasn't been in Gaza since 2006. Yet the Gazans attacked them non-stop. Then on Oct 7 they went and butchered 1200 people, injured many more including burning them alive, raping them while stabbing them in the back. They kidnapped 200 people including children and held them hostage. They use hospitals, schools and homes as headquarters and weapon storage. They stole billions of dollars for aid and used it to build their terror tunnels. People's homes were used as entrances as well as hospitals and mosques. They stored weapons in children's bedrooms and in their mosques.

And you believe anything they say?

 

[BCP1928]

They aren't. Israel hasn't been in Gaza since 2006. Yet the Gazans attacked them non-stop. Then on Oct 7 they went and butchered 1200 people, injured many more including burning them alive, raping them while stabbing them in the back. They kidnapped 200 people including children and held them hostage. They use hospitals, schools and homes as headquarters and weapon storage. They stole billions of dollars for aid and used it to build their terror tunnels. People's homes were used as entrances as well as hospitals and mosques. They stored weapons in children's bedrooms and in their mosques.

And you believe anything they say?

I don't see any reason to. Unless what they say can be verified by other sources. In this case, the history of the modern state of Israel is well known and documented. One need not rely on HAMAS propaganda or excuse their vicious behavior to see clearly that identifying anti-Zionism with anti-semitism is a lie primarily fostered by Christians.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

This, frankly, makes my point for me. The "interest" in Jewish history is driven by the prophetic appropriation of it for other purposes. As an outsider (now) I find such usage rather disrespectful and self-centered. (The record is exceedingly thin with contemporaneous sources as well.)

Can you think of some ways in which you're misconstruing the relationship of interest in "Jewish History"----as it probably should be in toto for any Christian-----for its direct connection to fulfillment in Jesus Christ?

I can. And no, it's far from being disrespectful. If anything, it's very respectful of the oracles of God delivered to the Israelites and kept by their Jewish descendants. I can't help it if you simply don't care about that.

A sadly limited perspective.

I was rather thinking the same thing about physical reductionism.