• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Pro-Life Protesting Behavior

S

Steezie

Guest
So relate the story. What does that have to do with my story?
Theres people on both sides determined to win no matter what they have to do, one side isnt better or worse for having them

My story was about a woman who indeed showed up to an abortion clinic for a D & C for what she thought was a miscairrage, not an abortion.
And MINE was about a pro-life advocate deliberately mis-leading people.

The pro-choicers should be thrilled with this story - it affirms their claim that abortion clinics offer other types of medical treatment.
Because they usually do. There are very few clinics that ONLY do abortions. Can you provide statistical information that there are clinics that ONLY do abortions?
 
Upvote 0

Angel4Truth

Legend
Aug 27, 2003
27,701
4,635
Visit site
✟80,500.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Steezie, you are using a double standard here and then in the other thread about pro choice protesting behavior.

You answered your own question too about why would :mary: lie :
Theres people on both sides determined to win no matter what they have to do
 
Upvote 0
S

Steezie

Guest
Steezie, you are using a double standard here and then in the other thread about pro choice protesting behavior.

You answered your own question too about why would :mary: lie :
How am I using a double standard? Mary's account is backed up by the experience of other people going in to women's health clinics. The priest's is not backed up.

Mary is a mathematics major, she doesnt care about politics. Her attitude is that shes not involved in politics so why should she care? I dont agree with it at all, but thats how she feels.
 
Upvote 0

KomissarSteve

Basileus
Feb 1, 2007
9,058
351
41
✟33,445.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Um your last line is what i said. You made a claim they exist but not as humans but have failed to tell us as what or even attempt to interpret the verses you claim do not mean God sees us as life before we are even born.

I've already stated that they mean that God has planned our destinies before birth, and that it has nothing to do with whether or not He considers fetuses to be humans or living beings. That is my interpretation. It's up to you to show me why your interpretation is more valid. So far, you are not succeeding.

Gods word will always mean more to me than yours will

Why should I consider your interpretation of God's Word to be any better than my own?

and considering your "opinion" on it isnt biblically supported at all -

Yours is?

So much for bursting bubbles. Tell me do you enter debates for informational and communication exchange or to take cheap shots?

If I see the Scriptures being twisted to back up someone's narrow ideology, I will confront that person.
 
Upvote 0
S

Steezie

Guest
A preist and an unknown woman named mary are equally credible. Mary isnt here and neither is the preist.
A priest is not immune to the impulse to lie nor is he immune to getting information from someboddy who lied. Mary's story can be corroborated with dozens of other run-ins with pro-life protesters.

There has never been one single incident involving the kinds of behavior the priest attributed to pro-choice advocates.

The avalibility of similar incidents to Mary's story and her blase attitude towards politics go towards increasing her credibility (She has experienced the same event as others and has no reason to lie). The priest is probably pro-life and no incidence of any kind similar to what he describes can be found in any news record. Thus decreasing his credibility. He has a motive to lie and does not have any other events similar to what he describes to back it up.
 
Upvote 0

kevin36

Regular Member
Mar 19, 2006
322
14
south-east Virginia
✟23,056.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It's a shame, though, that you don't honor or respect them enough to let them make their own decisions concerning their bodies. That really sort of implies that you respect zygotes more than you do grown women.

No, I respect them both, which is why I have such an issue with the one's choice to kill the other... Is that really so hard for people to understand?
 
Upvote 0

kevin36

Regular Member
Mar 19, 2006
322
14
south-east Virginia
✟23,056.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No it doesn't.

We've been down this road before. scroll back throughthe thread and see my response to this objection previously.

The Bible does indeed speak to this, and the other poster who refuted it never was able to deny it clearly.
 
Upvote 0

KomissarSteve

Basileus
Feb 1, 2007
9,058
351
41
✟33,445.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
We've been down this road before. scroll back throughthe thread and see my response to this objection previously.

The Bible does indeed speak to this, and the other poster who refuted it never was able to deny it clearly.
Do me a favor and link me? I'd rather not comb through all 25 pages of this thread, if that's okay with you.
 
Upvote 0

MikeMcK

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2002
9,600
654
✟13,732.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
I see so we should respect our childrens decisions if they want to commit suicide , take drugs and murder someone.

I think their point is, if your kid wants to commit suicide or take drugs, who are you to tell them what to do with their own body?
 
Upvote 0

MikeMcK

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2002
9,600
654
✟13,732.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
See, they aren't killing a baby if it's not developed yet.[/qoute]

By what standard? Developed to what extent?

They could just as easily miscarry (god's abortion?) in those early weeks.

Or they could get cancer and die at 86. So what? There is a difference between someone dying and someone being killed.

I'm not talking post-viability, which I'm against

Why? If there's nothing wrong with abortion, if it's just another medical procedure, then why would you be against it?

I think a woman has the right to determine if she will grow that child or not, especially if she never wanted it to begin with.

And there we go back to trying to erase the consequences of the choice she's already made.

And no more "she shouldn't have had sex" talk, that's been adressed already.

Why not? It's a perfectly reasonable point.
 
Upvote 0

Angel4Truth

Legend
Aug 27, 2003
27,701
4,635
Visit site
✟80,500.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
komisarsteve said:
If you're unwilling to defend your position, why are you even posting in this forum?
Ive already done so and its already been done so by others too and you and others cannot refute the information given. Im not about to keep going back and forth while you say " your wrong" without any substantiation. Thats a waste of time. I do not continue conversation when someone cannot respond but only throw insults instead of debating their position. When you decided to insult me instead of respond with information, i was quite finished with our conversation. Understand? Great.
 
Upvote 0

KomissarSteve

Basileus
Feb 1, 2007
9,058
351
41
✟33,445.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Ive already done so and its already been done so by others too and you and others cannot refute the information given. Im not about to keep going back and forth while you say " your wrong" without any substantiation. Thats a waste of time. I do not continue conversation when someone cannot respond but only throw insults instead of debating their position. When you decided to insult me instead of respond with information, i was quite finished with our conversation. Understand? Great.
I did respond to your position. I offered an alternative way of interpreting those verses, and asked you to show me why you think your interpretation is more valid than mine. So far your only response has been to repeat, "My version isn't an interpretation," which, I'm sorry to say, it is.
 
Upvote 0

Monica02

Senior Veteran
Aug 17, 2004
2,568
152
✟3,547.00
Faith
Catholic
Everyone is capable of being nasty, including so-called "pro-lifers".



Wait, is this a clinic that only performs abortions? Or is it a regular clinic or an OBGYN ("women's") clinic that only performs abortions on Saturdays? Also, it is wrong-headed to assume someone entering a clinic on a Saturday is heading for an abortion - I know plenty of young women (and men) who go to walk-in clinics on Saturdays for regular exams because school and/or work interferes with regular medical clinic hours, and/or they just haven't found a doctor's office in their area. Many of those women going into the clinic may just be going to get regular exams. Even in that case, it would be very stressful to have to be bugged by people giving out flyers. Some of them may be finding out they have a miscarriage... or are sterile... or have become pregnant because of a date rape... or who just are very stressed because of an unusual PAP smear (not uncommon!) or a precancerous mole.


Saturday is abortion day at this abortion clinic. So is Tuesday and Thursday. This is a huge metro area and there are plenty of hospitals and doctor's offices around for the people to go to. We see the abortionist come and go and he does not have time in the couple of hours he is there to give real exams. Twenty-thirtyfive women show up on any given Saturday and the abortionist shows up and stays at most three hours.
About 99.9% of people going into that clinic are going in for an abortion (one exception was the young lady who thought her baby was dead).



So what? SO WHAT? A person going into a medical clinic is going for three reasons: a regular exam, a prescription refill, or because of a medical problem. The last thing they need are people bugging them, handing out flyers, stressing them out over a medical issue!

They might not "need" to be bothered by us but so what if they are? They do not have to stop their car to talk to us if they are not interested.



Anti-abortion protesters should understand this: abortion is a medical issue between a doctor and a patient. A protester doesn't know the individual circumstances of the case. They don't even know why a person is going into the clinic. A man or woman may be entering it to find out any number of tragic things and adding more stress is cruel and useless.

You know, I ran into a young lady who stopped to talk to us at the clinic last fall the other day. She chose to not kill her baby. We took her to the crisis pregnancy center, gave her a beautiful gift basket and a couple dozen roses. She is seven months pregnant and she gave both of us (me and my sister) a big hug and a thank you and told us that she was carrying a boy.


Useless?

Perhaps you read the story (on this thread) of the young lady who was wrongly informed that her baby was dead. We stopped her from going in to abort her baby and she was simply thrilled that her baby was not dead.


Useless? Tragic???

What would have been tragic was if these two (and many others) had gone through with their abortions.

What is tragic is that so many women do kill their unborn children.



What those women need are information on adoption, and the knowledge that the adoptive parents will be good parents, not just rich ones. That is, they need to know that solid middle-class families can afford medical services, the initial overly-priced adoption fees, and so on.


The centers we refer these women to provide this info.



Baby showers? So cute little baby items. What about the nitty-gritty of life, such as health insurance, or money to tide over the mother during her maternity leave? Diapers? Water bills? How about the absent fathers? I guess they don't get anyone yelling at them or expecting them to raise a child for the rest of their lives, are they?


No ones future economic needs are assured. These women (and men - not all have absent fathers). There is government and Church assistence for the truly needy. Many of the women have family support.
If we killed everone who did not have an their entire life needs provided for there woud be very few, if any, people alive.

Did you she tell you that she was going to have an abortion? Or could she have been going for a GYN exam?

She told us.


Just what most places need - more pollution. Because once those kids are born, they don't deserve to live in an area with clear air and lots of trees... they only have rights before they are born!

The abortion mill is right across the street from a forest preserve and a lovely river. The only polllution is the booze bottles left by the homeless guys who camp out there. They talk to us and they are very pro-life.












You can pray anywhere and it will just as valuable. What those "little human beings" need are adoptive - not foster - families. For most families, adoption is out of the question because of the intial price tag of adoption. Perhaps a better use of the time on Saturday mornings would be helping solid families raise money for the initial costs of adoption
.

You know - I think that he turnarounds we have makes our Saturyday morning time very well spent. So apparently did the young mother of the little boy we ran into the the other day.
 
Upvote 0

Monica02

Senior Veteran
Aug 17, 2004
2,568
152
✟3,547.00
Faith
Catholic
Your story sounds fabricated. I'm not calling you a liar I'm just saying it has all the elements and because of that doesn't sound all that convincing. Stories like that usually have more to them than meets the eye in their retelling.

I have no doubt that doctors can make mistakes when diagnosing patients, that is what second opinions are for.



The story is true. You can believe whatever you want but the young lady said that the doctor at the other clinic told her the baby had no heart beat and that she should come to this clinic to have a D&C. She was crying and did tell us that she thought God was punishing her for an earlier abortion. She was taken to a local ER and an ultrasound revealed that the baby was alive. The woman was thrilled.

It may sound fabricated because it would be difficult for people to think that a so-called doctor would be so callous but hey - it happened.
 
Upvote 0

TinkaBella

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2007
641
40
✟23,497.00
Faith
Agnostic
The story is true. You can believe whatever you want but the young lady said that the doctor at the other clinic told her the baby had no heart beat and that she should come to this clinic to have a D&C. She was crying and did tell us that she thought God was punishing her for an earlier abortion. She was taken to a local ER and an ultrasound revealed that the baby was alive. The woman was thrilled.

It may sound fabricated because it would be difficult for people to think that a so-called doctor would be so callous but hey - it happened.
If she was going for a D&C then she wasn't going in for an abortion and has nothing to do with this debate unless you believe the first doctor was lying just so she would abort???

Medical malpractice and doctor error is an entirely different matter.
 
Upvote 0