Pro-Life Protesting Behavior

[Hunterkirk]

Just as a side mention, this is not a valid solution. Nearly half of kids who turn 18 in foster care end up homeless in two years. In 2005, there were roughly 800,000 kids in foster care (Including new entries and those already in foster care), of those 235,000 were removed from the foster care system (50,000 or so were adopted). That still leaves some 600,000 kids without a family. Tossing your kid in foster care is no guarantee you wont be throwing them out of the frying pan and into the fire.

That arguement does not work. First the reason for turning the child over to the state was so she could go on with her life uneffected by having the child. No matter what happens to the child after she gave it up, she herself has gained the same goal she gained by having the abortion, she is free of the child.

Also the arguement that the government fostor care system is imperfect does not fly as your are saying in effect it is better to be dead then to be in foster care. Having known some people who grew up in foster care I can assure you if I were to ask them..

"Hey would you rather have been aborted then have grown up in foster care?" They would have choosen the foster care over death.

 

[Hunterkirk]

In very very VERY few cases would I say abortion past the point of viability is OK...

but most abortions are carried out significantly prior to the point of viability, and I think they are a much more "grey" area

Fact is that many pro-abortionist are ok with late term abortion. The rareness of it does not matter, and the point of viability gets earlier and earlier depending on how much medical care you decide a human life is worth. The fact that some on the pro-abortion side fight to have later term abortion legal (even as rare as it may be) is a sign of loveing abortions.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Also the arguement that the government fostor care system is imperfect does not fly as your are saying in effect it is better to be dead then to be in foster care. Having known some people who grew up in foster care I can assure you if I were to ask them..

I'd rather unwanted children never existed rather than subject them to some of the horror stories one hears about fostering.

Whether an abused child subjectively believes they would rather be alive (anyone know if there is a corelative study between foster care and suicide rates?) is a little... well, appeal to emotion-ish... I'm certainly not saying that any actual person would be better off dead... but I AM saying that I'd prefer fewer unwanted children and fewer foster care placements.

Fact is that many pro-abortionist are ok with late term abortion.

Some are, some aren't.

Fact is that there seems to be a decided push from the "pro-life" side to focus on late term abortions and represent them as though they are the norm, when, in fact, most abortions occur quite early in the pregnancy.

The rareness of it does not matter,

I think it does.

the point of viability gets earlier and earlier depending on how much medical care you decide a human life is worth.

I believe the earliest ever surviving birth was at 20 weeks gestation? Just recently? maybe 22... I'm not sure. However, to think ALL pregnancies would be viable at 20-22 weeks is grossly inaccurate, and hospitals regard premature babies as inherently requiring critical care at anything before 35 weeks...

I guess if I had to give a solid figure, I'd say 30 weeks gestation seems a good "viability point"

The fact that some on the pro-abortion side fight to have later term abortion legal (even as rare as it may be) is a sign of loveing abortions.

No, its a sign of being dedicated to the idea of "choice".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't so called "partial birth" abortions only EVER carried out for medical reasons? I would also suggest that late term abortions are almost always carried out for medical reasons as well.

I don't think ANYONE "loves" abortions

 

[Texas Lynn]

[/size][/font]What do you think the purpose of the bible is?

Relevance?

 

[Texas Lynn]

Lynn, want to answer the other question i asked you? Id also like to see your evidence that most christians are pro choice - since you did make that claim (wholly unsupported at that) In fact you insisted a person here was unknowlegable about the "facts" of it -yet ive seen no substatiation for it. Are we to take your word for it?

I believe it's so based on consistent research that 70-80 % of all Americans favor a woman's right to choose. Luker provides some citations.

Looked at Barna Research Group's website and got this: among variables where they asked "are these morally acceptable?" this was their response for abortion:

Yes percentages by group:

All Adults: 45%

Evangelical: 4%

Born Again: 33%

Other Faith: 45%

Atheist/Agnostic: 71%

Technically one can say this result does not specifically state as I alluded what "Christians" views are since two subsets of Christians, Evangelicals and Born Again, are listed, but "Other Faith" presumably includes not only other types of Christians but also Jews, Mahometans, Buddhists, Zoraasterians, Animists, Subgenii, etc. However, a reasonable person could certainly claim the concept "Christians" mostly or all oppose abortion is thereby refuted. This refers to one's concept of morality; many of us (most?) who have personal moral qualms about abortion and would never consider such for ourself or so we'd say are significantly prayerfully pro-choice. If the question was asked to the group in Barna's survey sample there there "do you believe abortion should be between a woman and her medical providers?" undoubtedly the percentages would be much higher.

My statement was not meant to indicate some 80-90% of Christians are pro-choice; obviously that is not so. Only that except for specific sects there is considerable division on the issue and the ignorant notion that "Christians" are anti-choice is at best a naive misconception but most likely an exercise in willful deception.

 

[Steezie]

Also the arguement that the government fostor care system is imperfect does not fly as your are saying in effect it is better to be dead then to be in foster care. Having known some people who grew up in foster care I can assure you if I were to ask them..

Have you spoken to people who ended up on the wrong end of the foster care system? Those who ended up in bad homes or on the streets becuase they werent adopted?

 

[Texas Lynn]

Like I said before, I don't care what the dictionary defination is, a baby is still a baby.

Calling it anything else is just a way people can make themselves feel better about ending it's life. "It's not a baby, see? It's just a zygote/blastocyst/embryo/fetus..."

There, doesn't that make it all better?

A baby is a child who is born, also called a neonate or an infant. Prior to birth referring to an embryo/fetus as a "baby" is a symbolic exercise only.

The concept an abortion "ends a life" is a false premise because such a "life" has not yet begun.

The smugness of the quoted post is most unfortunate.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Numbers that you use as proof that "most Christians" are in favor of abortion... I mean "pro-choice"?

See above and study the nuances of the variations of Christian experience.

BTW, to be "pro-choice" is in no way whatsoever to be "in favor of abortion".

What evidence do you need other than God's word that what He says is true? And I'm not trying to be smart withthat question, either... I really want to know.

What is this about? Relevance to the topic?

 

[Texas Lynn]

Educate yourself and you will be less incredulous when confronted with reality.

 

[Texas Lynn]

How's that work...?[in response to "One can be pro-lif and pro choice."

Rather easily; we oppose abortion but do not presume to judge those who obtain it and oppose its criminalization and the inherent woman hatred in the antichoice position or at least I do, I can't speak for EP II.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Fact is that many pro-abortionist are ok with late term abortion. The rareness of it does not matter, and the point of viability gets earlier and earlier depending on how much medical care you decide a human life is worth. The fact that some on the pro-abortion side fight to have later term abortion legal (even as rare as it may be) is a sign of loveing abortions.

The conclusion is illogical. Medical procedures need to be determined by physicians, not legislators. I can assure you no one ever obtains a late term abortion frivilously.

 

[Hunterkirk]

I'd rather unwanted children never existed rather than subject them to some of the horror stories one hears about fostering.

Whether an abused child subjectively believes they would rather be alive (anyone know if there is a corelative study between foster care and suicide rates?) is a little... well, appeal to emotion-ish... I'm certainly not saying that any actual person would be better off dead... but I AM saying that I'd prefer fewer unwanted children and fewer foster care placements.Some are, some aren't.

Fact is that there seems to be a decided push from the "pro-life" side to focus on late term abortions and represent them as though they are the norm, when, in fact, most abortions occur quite early in the pregnancy.I think it does.I believe the earliest ever surviving birth was at 20 weeks gestation? Just recently? maybe 22... I'm not sure. However, to think ALL pregnancies would be viable at 20-22 weeks is grossly inaccurate, and hospitals regard premature babies as inherently requiring critical care at anything before 35 weeks...

I guess if I had to give a solid figure, I'd say 30 weeks gestation seems a good "viability point"No, its a sign of being dedicated to the idea of "choice".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't so called "partial birth" abortions only EVER carried out for medical reasons? I would also suggest that late term abortions are almost always carried out for medical reasons as well.

I don't think ANYONE "loves" abortions

Look if it is truely better to be dead then be in fostor care then the solution is simple, kill off all the foster children. Because by your logic it is such a nightmire that it would be a act of torture to keep those foster children alive, so the mercyful thing is to kill them off.

I know some arent, I am refering to those that are.

"I guess if I had to give a solid figure, I'd say 30 weeks gestation seems a good "viability point""

On that point I would be fine with no abortions past the point of viability. At that point you would have to birth the child and give it up to the state also sign away any parental rights to see the child in the future. I would also be for looking at methods of improving the foster care system or suplimenting it with some other system.

And lastly we will just have to disagree on that one as I can not see any other reason to support late term abortion other then a love of abortion itself, seeing that late term means the child can be safely birthed.

 

[Hunterkirk]

The conclusion is illogical. Medical procedures need to be determined by physicians, not legislators. I can assure you no one ever obtains a late term abortion frivilously.

Sorry I disagree, I also see my state as completely logical.

 

[MooCar93]

And lastly we will just have to disagree on that one as I can not see any other reason to support late term abortion other then a love of abortion itself, seeing that late term means the child can be safely birthed.

Are you sure about this "safely birthed" part? When I think of the word "safe," "childbirth" isn't always the first thing that comes to mind. We're talking about a pretty physically traumatizing event for a woman's body here. A LOT can go wrong.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Sorry I disagree, I also see my state as completely logical.

?

 

[Texas Lynn]

...I can not see any other reason to support late term abortion other then a love of abortion itself, seeing that late term means the child can be safely birthed.

That's like saying people with severe dental problems all want to have sex with their dentists since they go to see them so often.

 

[Hunterkirk]

That's like saying people with severe dental problems all want to have sex with their dentists since they go to see them so often.

If the child can be safely birthed then there is NO reason for the abortion other then the love of aborting a child. Because clearly the person hates birthing the child so much that they would rather kill it even when they know full well the child could live and be birthed easily.

In fact it would be medically safer to birth the child as abortions run the risk of infection, uncontroled bleeding, and other serious medical side effect.

You should listen to some of the recorded 911 calls from abortion clinics where a patient had to be rushed to the hospital due to complication resulting from a legal "safe" abortion.

 

[Monica02]

It certainly is true that people may participate in more than one volunteer activity.

However, there are PROBABLY more people who ONLY volunteer in one activity, rather than several, and I am yet to be convinced that so called "sidewalk counselling" does anything but offer a sanctimonious excuse for bullying the scared and the vulnerable.

I'd much rather see people putting their effort into something with more tangible results...

Actually, most (if not all) of the people who pray/counsel at the abortion mill we go to do participate in several activities. I was the Respect Life coordinator at my parish and our group sells roses and collects baby items every year for an aid organization. We have also held baby showers for pregnant women who have chosen to not kill thier unborn children. Several of the people also volunteer at crisis pregnancy centers. All of us are faithful Catholics who support the charity efforts of our Church. We also distribute polictical/legislative information at the parishes.

Our activities outside of the abortion mill are effective as we usually have at least one turnaround a week. Just this last Saturday a young lady drove in , looked at our literature and drove out. She had planned on having an abortion and changed her mind. One of the workers came out last year and told us that we were driving away the clinic's business .


We also distribute informative literature to the cars that are stopped for the train. We usually get to hand out about 35 peices on a Saturday morning. we really do reach alot of people with abortion info.

Even if we did not have turnarounds, our efforts would be benificial because the little humans being slaughtered will at leas thave someone to pray for them. The prayers for the mothers, fathers, abortionists and clinic workers will also do some good.

 

[Monica02]

[]

I was struck by the fairly dispassionate tone of your attitude towards the women or girls who are faced with verbal assault when they go into a Planned Parenthood. First of all, how do you know which girls are having abortions? Do they have a big "A" pinned on their chests? Many girls might be going to get birth control and physical examinations. Is the assumption that all women and girls who go to Planned Parenthood are "harlots" anyway, so you might as well unload your propaganda on all of them?

I am not a very passionate person, which makes me an excellent pro-life activist. I do not normally get exited or loose my temper about anything so why would you expect me to get passionate about this thread? Anyhow, I was adressing the original question of whether the demonstrator's tactics accomplished anything. I stated that I did not think the "harlot " comment would accomplish anything. I would never say anthing like that to anyone and I doubt if anyone of my fellow pro-lifers would. It was a nasty comment.

We do treat all women entering "our" abortion clinic on Saturday morning as abortion bound because Saturday is abortion day at the mill. The women normally have on baggy pants and have someone else driving them. They are very often crying. These are red flags for abortion intent. On the slim (very slim - this place is an ABORTION clinic) chance that someone is not there for an abortion - and we hand them abortion literarature when they stop - there is no harm done.

The same could be said of any abortion mill, if a lady sees some literature and she is going there for some other purpose - so what?

Most girls and women who decide to abortions don't do so lightheartedly. They may feel sad, guilty, scared, emotionally upset due to possible family strife over the matter. Showing pictures of aborted fetuses, calling the clients "harlots" is not only "not effective", it's cruel. You have a right to protest, but groups like yours may be more effective by being non-judgemental, praying, and offering your love non-confrontationally.

I do not know what "most girls" think or what their motivations are. I do know that some are not absolutely sure and some are just worried or scared. We are there to educate them and offer an alternative, and some do take us up on our offers. The ones that change their minds make our efforts worthwhile.

 

[Bianca87]

Easy enough. I am pro life, I think abortion is rarely the best option, and I would very much liek tohelp reduce abortion rates.

I am pro choice because I accept that, while I have reasons for my own views, and I think they are valid, I admit that I don't have all the answers, and I can't answer for anyone else about such a personal matter. I DON'T believe that just because I think something is wrong, everyone else should think so too. I don't think I have the right to legislate what anyone else does with their own body.

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