Pro-Life Protesting Behavior

[Angel4Truth]

Jesus told us that "by their fruits, you shall know them."

I'm sorry, I don't see where screaming abuse at women entering clinics is any evidence whatsoever of love and compassion for women and the fetuses they may or may not be carrying.

this is assuming that each person who attends a pro life demonstration is there to abuse others and isnt adressing what i stated about everyones motive there. This is more propaganda.

I have to agree with EnemyParty here. The ultimate goal of the Pro-Life movement (at least insofar as I can see) is getting the government to ban abortion. That is FAR more than just making women "question" their choice - that's completely taking their choice away from them. Besides, do we really think women who go to clinics for abortions do so that flippantly? There is a LOT of questioning and soul-searching that goes into that process.

Enemy party didnt adress what i was speaking about either but merely posted propaganda and assumed each person who attends a prolife demonstration is there to abuse people. This is not the case. Its purely propaganda to assume everyone who is there is there only to have power over others or to abuse someone or to be part of a conspiracy. A ridiculous assertion at that as no one here can claim to know the motives of each person who does so.

Its ridiculous to assert no one there could possibly care about another persons welfare unless you have personally spoken to all women who attend them. There are tons of women who have had abortions that regret them every day of their lives and wish someone would have stopped them because they made a *gasp* rash decision.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

this is assuming that each person who attends a pro life demonstration is there to abuse others and isnt adressing what i stated about everyones motive there. This is more propaganda.

Enemy party didnt adress what i was speaking about either but merely posted propaganda and assumed each person who attends a prolife demonstration is there to abuse people. This is not the case. Its purely propaganda to assume everyone who is there is there only to have power over others or to abuse someone or to be part of a conspiracy. A ridiculous assertion at that as no one here can claim to know the motives of each person who does so.

Its ridiculous to assert no one there could possibly care about another persons welfare unless you have personally spoken to all women who attend them. There are tons of women who have had abortions that regret them every day of their lives and wish someone would have stopped them because they made a *gasp* rash decision.

propaganda... i don't think it means what you think it means...

I never said " each person who attends a prolife demonstration is there to abuse people."... not at all... I'm talking about the people at prolife deomstrations who ACTUALLY abuse people... no propaganda, no assumption... we know they go to abuse people, because, they go... and then they abuse people!

No one said thats all pro life rallies are about. No one said that is what all pro lifers are motivated by.

We are talking ONLY about the ones who act in undefensible ways hurling abuse, intimidating, shouting, guilting sort of thing. Thats all.

Please don't look for insults were none ar intended.

I'm certainly not interested in anti-pro-life "propaganda"... as I am a pro-lifer.

However, JUST BECAUSE I'm a pro lifer, I DON'T feel that entitles me to behave in an unacceptible fashion, with violence, or threats, or bullying, or shouting or any activity that is likely to make a possibly very scared woman feel even worse.

THAT is the part I say is bullying, and THAT is the part that i think is about power, NOT abortion.

There are tons of women who have had abortions that regret them every day of their lives and wish someone would have stopped them because they made a *gasp* rash decision.

Quite true.

But does anyone have any idea how many of these women regret the experience because of the abuse they cop on the way into the abortion clinic?

Maybe even more importantly... how many women are there who WOULD have had an abortion that they would later regret, who actually realised they would rather have the child because they were screamed at and abused by placard wielding right to lifers?

Any?

Would more have been convinced not to have an abortion if, instead of putting their energies into waving placards and making threats, the right to lifers made themselves available to talk, offered to provide cheap child care, offered to provide single mother support services, offered education endowments, or did anything to ease the burden of the potential mother/family?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Would more have been convinced not to have an abortion if, instead of putting their energies into waving placards and making threats, the right to lifers made themselves available to talk, offered to provide cheap child care, offered to provide single mother support services, offered education endowments, or did anything to ease the burden of the potential mother/family?

This happens all the time too and there are plenty of organizations who do just this. Again consider the op here - I sincerely doubt what is described is what happened. I will also state that at most demonsrations other demonstrators will ask those who would come to abuse someone to cool it or try to exclude them from planned demonstrations but what is being presented here is that most if not all protestors are there just to hurt someone and thats what is ridiculous and reeks of propoganda and YES i know EXACTLY what it is and what it means.

Also you seem to be unable to state your meaning untill you are called on it.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I sincerely doubt what is described is what happened.

I give you my word that I have personally witnessed WORSE than the OP describes

I will also state that at most demonsrations other demonstrators will ask those who would come to abuse someone to cool it or try to exclude them from planned demonstrations

And quite rightly so.

but what is being presented here is that most if not all protestors are there just to hurt someone

Some protests that appears to be exactly what is going on.

and thats what is ridiculous and reeks of propoganda and YES i know EXACTLY what it is and what it means.

It doesnt seem like propaganda or ridiculous to those of us that have seen it.

Also you seem to be unable to state your meaning untill you are called on it.

I do? I'm sorry... what exactly have I been unclear about?

 

[SallyNow]

This happens all the time too and there are plenty of organizations who do just this. Again consider the op here - I sincerely doubt what is described is what happened. I will also state that at most demonsrations other demonstrators will ask those who would come to abuse someone to cool it or try to exclude them from planned demonstrations but what is being presented here is that most if not all protestors are there just to hurt someone and thats what is ridiculous and reeks of propoganda and YES i know EXACTLY what it is and what it means.

Also you seem to be unable to state your meaning untill you are called on it.

Even sites like Youtube have cases of what happened in the OP. I live in an area where, for the most part, pro-lifers are pro-active: they participate in foster care, or join Birthright, or help pregnant women get through the legal problems of adoption. I don't think I've seen a protest at any OBGYN clinics. Also, here, most "women's" clinics are full-service OBGYN clinics servicing women from all ages, and also serving families, including children and husbands. In fact, there are very few clinics devoted soley to "sexual health"... they aren't needed. A person can go into a normal walk-in clinic and whatever service they need.

Also, I have tried to discuss the issue of protesters themselves, but most of my posts have ignored. For some reason, people don't want to address solutions

 

[Angel4Truth]

and there are laws in place to prevent whats being stated that so many here claim to have witnessed.... As vocal as those who claim its happening are , why arent there more arrests for breaking federal laws and i almost believe planned parenthoods are sitting there letting people break the law at their clinics...

 

[MooCar93]

Enemy party didnt adress what i was speaking about either but merely posted propaganda and assumed each person who attends a prolife demonstration is there to abuse people. This is not the case. Its purely propaganda to assume everyone who is there is there only to have power over others or to abuse someone or to be part of a conspiracy. A ridiculous assertion at that as no one here can claim to know the motives of each person who does so.

Its ridiculous to assert no one there could possibly care about another persons welfare unless you have personally spoken to all women who attend them. There are tons of women who have had abortions that regret them every day of their lives and wish someone would have stopped them because they made a *gasp* rash decision.

To be fair, it seems there are plenty of assumptions (and propaganda) on both sides of the issue here. I think we can all admit this.

Also, while many women have, indeed, regretted having abortions, many have also intensely regretted giving their children up for adoption (the alternative most often championed by pro-lifers). It's really a no-win situation as far as regrets go.

I still say more energy should be poured into cutting the demand for abortions than simply picketing outside of clinics or seeking an all-out government ban on them. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I would like to see a video of an abortion clinic in california where protestors are blocking the entrance of the clinic (doorway) and hitting people with their signs while screaming at them since 1995.

 

[SallyNow]

I would like to see a video of an abortion clinic in california where protestors are blocking the entrance of the clinic (doorway) and hitting people with their signs while screaming at them since 1995.

A) It would probably be a rule violation for me to post such photos here. Search on Youtube and you'll find some disturbing things regarding this issue.

B) Again, ignoring all my other posts, all my other points and focusing on one. Why does not one want to address how wrong it is to harass others?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I would like to see a video of an abortion clinic in california where protestors are blocking the entrance of the clinic (doorway) and hitting people with their signs while screaming at them since 1995.

Why since '95?

Can you remember it happening prior to that?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Well, I don't know about anyone else... but I think MOST of the following is to do with bullying and controling others, and has little if anything to do with saving the cute baby foetuses

Level of violence and harassment at abortion clinics

One source reported in late 1996, that there has been "over $13 million in damage caused by violent anti-abortion groups since 1982 in over 150 arson attacks, bombings, and shootings." 1

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Many pro-choice individuals and groups blame these criminal acts on the most violent extremists in the pro-life movement. Some believe that the violent rhetoric heard from pro-lifers motivates the more radical pro-life fringe to resort to violence.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Many pro-life individuals and groups blame the violence on groups which are quite separate from the pro-life movement -- people who have little regard for human life.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The National Abortion Federation reports "Incidents of Violence and Disruption Against Abortion Providers" in the U.S. and Canada. 3 Their data for the past 16 years is shown below. The number of incidents of picketing is also shown: (table won't transfer, but lots of REALLY antisocial behaviour is listed)[/FONT]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]

1. Partial data for 2004, as of 2004-SEP-16.

[/FONT]

 

[christalee4]

Indeed, because the underlying thinking behind shutting down the clinics is that single women and girls have no business having access to birth control, since it's "immoral", and that married women shouldn't have birth control, because it's "against God's plan" to be fruitful and multiply.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/07/m...92772f01a5c709&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Abortion is only a small part of the issue, which is all about taking the decision-making process of sexuality out of women's hands.

Heck, I am going to revive this statement, since no one wants to address it. Heckling abortion protestors is only a small and partial statement as to what the anti-sex movement is all about. Reproductive regulation is of primary importance: groups who feel that only their version of God address this wish to legislate their views on all civilians.

 

[SallyNow]

Heck, I am going to revive this statement, since no one wants to address it. Heckling abortion protestors is only a small and partial statement as to what the anti-sex movement is all about. Reproductive regulation is of primary importance: groups who feel that only their version of God address this wish to legislate their views on all civilians.

I agree this is a problem. There are groups of people who are not "pro-life", but in fact, "anti-abortion" and "anti-contraceptive" and just plain want to control women's lives. They will do it through any means - legistlation, closing down of vital medical clinics, even harassing men and women who use reproductive health clinics.

If someone wants to reduce abortion rates they should help women who do become pregnant raise money so they can take time off work to have the child, they should encourage men to be more supportive of the women who've they helped get pregnant, they should make sure that healthy families can afford to adopt (right now the price is prohibitive for many solid and healthy, but not rich, families)

 

[Hunterkirk]

One of my close friends went to a Planned Parenthood clinic yesterday and she encountered some pro-life protesters. For the purposes of this thread, we'll call her Mary.

She was going in to terminate a pregnancy after having concerns about her physical ability to bear a child. Her OBGYN told her that she would probably be ok but she couldnt make any promises. Mary is attending college for an engineering degree and has concerns about her ability to complete school as well as her physical ability to carry the baby and give birth. Rather than risk it and drop out of school, she decided it would be best to terminate.

Now normally we have pro-life protesters around the local Planned Parenthood clinic. Its a common scene and they generally havent caused much of a problem. But when Mary started walking in, the protestors began shouting at her, shoving signs in her face and pictures of aborted fetuses. One of the women there shouted that she was a harlot and should have kept her legs closed.

Normally I would guess that abortion protesters are atleast moderately civil, a few crazies, but generally contained. But whats with the intimidation? I mean seriously, yelling and screaming in front of a government building, thats one thing. Harassing and scaring a woman on her own and basically ATTACKING HER, what does that accomplish?

They could have gone to far, I admit. But when it come to life and death issues this does bring lots of passion. I was watching a movie of some of the tatics used by the anti-slavery movement in the UK. It included makeing up boxes the size and shape of the cells slaves were kept in. It included forceing those that supported slavery to see dead slaves, smell the slave ships, and generally push at every possable moment the reality of what slavery was upon those who accepted it as being ok.

I feel for your friend and I think she has made a choice that in the long run will haunt her. I feel calling the child a fetus is a way to ignore what you are really doing. Maybe she will be one of those who can live comfortably with what she has done saying "it was for the best" and "it was only a fetus". I pray she is ok and I pray for the child that parished in that clinic that day.

The passion of the protestors comes from the knowledge that the clinic is killing babies, with the mothers consent, but still killing babies. They would argue that she could have the child and give it up for adoption. As for the health issues I have no clue what they are and I dont need to be told them. Maybe they were such a risk to her health as to be impossable, maybe they were not. Only the doctor knows for certain, and if it were a major risk then I would be saddened but ok with the abortion. If her concerns were only her college and the inconvenance having a child would bring then I have little sympathy for her.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

There are groups of people who are not "pro-life", but in fact, "anti-abortion" and "anti-contraceptive" and just plain want to control women's lives. They will do it through any means - legistlation, closing down of vital medical clinics, even harassing men and women who use reproductive health clinics.

Thats how it looks to me

 

[EnemyPartyII]

They would argue that she could have the child and give it up for adoption.

I wopuld argue that myself.

However, i don't see how militant pro-life protests further this idea.

I ALSO don't see how pro-lifers who are also in favour of restiricting contraception and financial aid to low income mothers are helping either... they seem to willfully want to increase the number of unwanted children out there.

Agent provocateurs for adoption agencies perhaps?

 

[Steezie]

They would argue that she could have the child and give it up for adoption

Just as a side mention, this is not a valid solution. Nearly half of kids who turn 18 in foster care end up homeless in two years. In 2005, there were roughly 800,000 kids in foster care (Including new entries and those already in foster care), of those 235,000 were removed from the foster care system (50,000 or so were adopted). That still leaves some 600,000 kids without a family. Tossing your kid in foster care is no guarantee you wont be throwing them out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

[Hunterkirk]

I wopuld argue that myself.

However, i don't see how militant pro-life protests further this idea.

I ALSO don't see how pro-lifers who are also in favour of restiricting contraception and financial aid to low income mothers are helping either... they seem to willfully want to increase the number of unwanted children out there.

Agent provocateurs for adoption agencies perhaps?

On the issue on contraception, I would agree with (surprise). As for militant pro-lifers I disagree with them also. Just as much as I disgree with militant pro-abortion(choicers) people who think that abortion past the point of viability is ok.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Just as a side mention, this is not a valid solution. Nearly half of kids who turn 18 in foster care end up homeless in two years. In 2005, there were roughly 800,000 kids in foster care (Including new entries and those already in foster care), of those 235,000 were removed from the foster care system (50,000 or so were adopted). That still leaves some 600,000 kids without a family. Tossing your kid in foster care is no guarantee you wont be throwing them out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Important points indeed... if abortion were made illegal and the numbers of children looking for adoptive or foster homes increased I would be SERIOUSLY concerned about their welfare

 

[EnemyPartyII]

On the issue on contraception, I would agree with (surprise). As for militant pro-lifers I disagree with them also. Just as much as I disgree with militant pro-abortion(choicers) people who think that abortion past the point of viability is ok.

In very very VERY few cases would I say abortion past the point of viability is OK...

but most abortions are carried out significantly prior to the point of viability, and I think they are a much more "grey" area